Contradictions in Propagannongate

[BurtWorm]

These need to be sorted out if this is going to make any sense:


1. Why would Rove the genius hire a dipshit like Gannon if he knew what Gannon did after dark? If he didn't know, how can he be such a genius? The Gannon thing proves either that Rove is a genius and must be stopped! or that Rove is an idiot and must be laughed at! How can it prove both at the same time?

There are some more contradictions, but I have to leave it at that for now. Feel free to comment on this one or to add contradictions of your own.

[Goldmund]

1. That is a good point -- but there is a contradicting and equally...

...strong point: based on everything you know about this administration and their level of secrecy and micro-management -- do you think you can just waltz into the WH press room? Once you've walked in, do you think you just randomly get to ask Bush a question? A few nights ago I actually saw an interview with a member of the WH press corps, I don't remember who -- on Aaron Brown, I think, when the dude from Americablog appeared -- who specifically said exactly that: "You don't just get to ask questions of the president.". As I mentioned, every Freeper would kill to be in Gannon's position -- if it's as simple as 1-2-3 to get in there, why isn't Joe Freeper there instead of Gannon?

There definitely is a contradiction. But not a contradiction of reasoning, but of suppositions based on known facts. That contradiction should make us dig deeper, not stop digging.

[BurtWorm]

14. Either you can get into the WH press room with just a name and a serial

number as Guckert claimed he did, or Guckert was waved through. If he was let in just using his real name and serial number (as he and McClellan said he was) then what's so bad about that? Is that too lax, to have them run an FBI check on the SS # and let the guy through if he doesn't come up as a proven terrorist, fugitive or wacko? Is this really such a terrible thing to have in a democracy, the ability of someone who passes such a test to have access to a press briefing at the White House? Or do we now, as Dems, take the position that we think access should be ultra-restricted where the press and the White House interface?

By the way, Gannon is Joe Freeper.

[Goldmund]

20. Would it be so bad?

No, of course not.

Is it likely?

Not at all. You know and I know that is not how this White House works.

Gannon is not Joe Freeper. Gannon was a ticking timebomb. His skeletons in the closet were a lot more than boning the neighbor's wife.

[BurtWorm]

21. I can't say that I know that's how this White House works,

because clearly they let a loser like Gannon in. On top of that, they let Russ Mokhiber (or whatever his name is) in, and he is outright hostile to everything they stand for.

But he is Joe Freeper. Literally. He's a member of Free Republic and was one (I think) before he was a member of TalonNews.com.

[Goldmund]

22. Do you think Mokhiber got access to the Plame memo?

Also, he may be a freeper, but he ain't Joe Freeper. Whatever we may think and say about them, the average Freeper isn't a gay prostitute.

[BurtWorm]

23. I don't think Guckert got access to it either.

[Goldmund]

30. ok, I can breathe easier now...

[BurtWorm]

32. Glad to help.

;)

[troubleinwinter]

2. Check this thread, most especially H20 entries, near bottom.

Perhaps there is more going on than meets the eye.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3111979

[fooj]

3. Sex is the "spoiler' here. Damn...too bad we didn't know then

what we know now! Looks like Shrub gets his TRIFECTA a few different ways...

[Plaid Adder]

4. Easy enough explanation

Guckert has been a prostitute a lot longer than he's been a fake reporter. That's probably how these guys met him. Probably some of them are clients.

It is possible that putting Guckert in the press pool was not the Bush gang's idea. Maybe Guckert really wanted to play a reporter on TV and he coaxed/blackmailed one of his clients into getting him a spot. For this theory to work, of course, his client would have to be someone pretty high-up--either McClellan or someone who can tell McClellan what to do (Rove).

As for why they didn't think it woudl be found out--hell, they own the media. Who's going to find it out? These are people who thought they were going to be greeted with rose petals by the people whose country they bombed flat and then invaded. There's no limit to the hubris.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[Vickers]

5. "hell, they own the media" DAMN THOSE LIBRUL BLOGGERS!!!

:spank::spank::spank::spank::spank::spank::spank::spank::spank::spank:

[Misunderestimator]

7. Good theory...

and why wouldn't they think they could get away with it with all the other shit they've gotten away with. They were able to cover up the 1,500 American soldiers' deaths with paper-thin lies... starting what will likely become a world war with the middle east. What's one reporter who never asks any real questions? No one would notice with all the "legitimate" ones not asking them either.

[BurtWorm]

15. I think there might still be room for dumb humans to get into press

briefings at the White House. It's very clear that the WH actually has much lower standards than the Congress for clearing press credientials. I actually think it's better for democracy if the standards for access to questioning of the government are not too high. Of course loons should be kept out if possible. The government should not restrict access to like-minded robots. But I think if I have a blog and want to ask McClellan or even Bush something, I'd like to be able to get in to have my question answered. I don't think it's a bad thing, in other words, that any old blogger who isn't a danger to him or herself or society, can get in to ask a question if he or she has one to ask.

[Carni]

6. I cannot help wondering if Gannon blackmailed his way into position

Excuse the pun-- but he seems like the type.

[fooj]

9. Yeah...One of those "I've got the biggest dick" kind of guys...

or "I've got the goods on you"...whatever the case-he won't keep that big mouth of his shut for long! Little idiot, boy-toy!

[NV Whino]

8. There are several possibilities here

1. If Rove knew, then Guckert is a throw-away shill. Distraction for Plame or God only knows what.
2. But what if Rove didn't know? Really, he isn't omnipotent. What if:

1. Gucket blackmailed someone to get in just to get his jollies playing journalist.
2. Whoever got him in really didn't know his "secret" life and presented him as the "save- Scottie-when-he's-in-trouble" guy.
3. What if Scottie really didn't know his background. I think that Scottie doesn't have time to vet journalists himself. I'm sure staff does that. So we could be dealing with a really low level guy who got him in.

So, if we find out just exactly WHO was responsible for getting Guckert in, that will anser a lot of questions.

[fooj]

10. I'm inclined to believe it's from someone in the higher ranks-

I say this because there has been an absolute "shutdown, blackout" on this whole incident. It's not like sex doesn't sell...remember Willie's little scandal? SEX SELLS! So, where's the story?

[zann725]

11. Everyone has an "Achilles Heel." This larger than life image of Rove

is clearly at least PARTLY not entirely fact-based on the pudgey nurd Karl sees when he looks in the mirror.

Exactly the type who'd be vulnerable to an aggressive "escort" type like Gannon. (Not saying he was, but...)

Throughout history every time an empire got overly zealous, and over-confident in their conquerings, they eventually became "sloppy" and met with a downfall based on this over-confidence. One can only 'juggle so many balls'...quite literally...without 'dropping' a few.

Every over-zealous conqueror has met their "Waterloo."

THAT is how this Gannon thing happened. The illusion of infallibility, and an above-the-law arrogance they'd never be caught, or IF caught...would just thumb their noses at us all.
AND...Rove IS only human. Remember that.

[DearAbby]

12. The Blackmail would have to be a pretty high up person

who else would be able to over ride the Secret Service who is duty bound to protect the President at all cost, even the ultimate one. Do you think McClellan has that sort of pull? Who high up in the Bush administration able to call off the "dawgs" of the Secret Service?

This person was able to gain access to the President of the United States using an alias? With Homeland Security that would be allowed to happen? Incompetence? I don't think so.

[global1]

13. Perhaps It's The Same Person Who Placed Monica In......

the Clinton WH. Think about that.

[Must_B_Free]

16. i second that thought

[mitchum]

17. They things we do for love?

Or at least lust can make even an alleged "genius" such as Rove pull a boneheaded move.

[leftofthedial]

18. that's a nastier black hole

than Condie

[Disturbed]

19. The red flags.

This person was not investigated? Falon News was 4 days old when he was vetted for them. No one knew about his past, his Web Sites? His income tax problem of $20K was not a red flag?

[KaliTracy]

24. the sex is a diversion... McClellan seen in "gay" bars -- Gannon's.

websites, all the rest of the weird stuff are just distractions to the bigger picture.

Doesn't matter in this little fiasco who is gay or not -- it's a so what issue -- except for the fact that the Republicans are bent on dehumanizing people who have same-sex preferences, it's still separate from the real story.

The real issue of this whole sordid tale of Gannon et al is the fact that someone without proper education, credentials, or references got into the White House Press Room at all, and was able to ask so many inane softball, or leading questions.

The real issue is who let him in, and why was he given the floor so many times.

The real issue is what type of information he was given, if beyond the daily briefing.

Think about this -- the GOP isn't so stupid to think that Gannon's past wouldn't be found. (After all, didn't they strategically strike Fallujah when they thought Kerry would be "fighting" for every vote? (well you might not believe this, but there was an interesting article about this right after the election http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i21election.htm )

I believe they wanted this information to be found (though granted, they didn't make it easy) -- and that there are probably some fall guys who are involved (who may or may not have known they'd be fall guys) -- but step beyond that and Focus.

The MSM ran away with Monica and a stain on a Blue dress (that she never washed) which made everyone forget about the Republican Shut Down of the Government (remember that??? When they talk about Obstructionism, they should know... right?) But does the American Public remember what was going on in the Government when Clinton got caught? Set up or Not -- it did what it was meant to do -- took what was happening in the Government (the shut down (among other things, no doubt) out of the Public Eye, and gave everyone a Huge Dose of Scandal to chew on, for years....

Yes -- they used this "sex thing" against Clinton -- they tried to use this to Impeach Clinton -- but what it ultimately did was get the People to FORGET what was really going on. We need not be so smug that we finally "have" something to smear in their faces -- we need to keep digging for the real reasons behind this.

I could be wrong of course -- and I know people have worked VERY hard and diligently to crack this story, and they have done an excellent job! At least we still have people who are still interested in Investigative reporting out there. That said, I personally could care less about Gannon's sexual proclivities. This story is not about that. Really. If he had reasons/directions for feeding * and Scott questions, or was privy to classified information --that's a story.


edited:typo

[BurtWorm]

25. That's a very interesting but peculiar theory.

The White House wants us to focus on sex to take our minds off the real shit that's going on, so we should focus on the sex to get to the real shit that's going on. Interesting but peculiar theory. ;)

[KaliTracy]

26. um, no... -- just focus on things that aren't obvious. I don't think they

made the information come out -- but they sure didn't hide it, did they? Is it just that someone in the WH is lazy? I just think it's way too convenient. See how already the Dems are cooling off to investigating Gannon's involvement at the WH? They don't want to stir up a quagmire of sludge. And they are avoiding the real questions because of this.

edit:typo

[BurtWorm]

28. But the real questions have nothing to do with Gannon.

Gannon is a used kleenex. He's done for. There's nothing left of him.

The real questions have to be asked of Judith Miller, Karl Rove, Scooter Libby...and that's just on the Plame deal. Then you have the whole lying about WMD to drag the US off to war in Iraq deal. And the torturing "enemy combatants" deal. And we haven't even gone anywhere near letting 9/11 happen deal.

[KaliTracy]

29. yes, yes, yes. Gannon is smokescreen, but this story does not stop

those things from being investigated, MSM dropped those balls already, didn't they? I agree all that you have stated need to be looked into. I also think that in the context Gannon -- who has been playing journalist for so long in a place that should have some of the strictest security/vetting process for access to the president --that someone had to have let him in. Why? Just so people wouldn't investigate the other things? They already weren't.

edited:typo

[BurtWorm]

31. Exactly! There's another major contradiction.

Why use Gannon to distract an already distracted press and public? It doesn't make sense.

[KaliTracy]

34. *grin* this administration is full of 'em n/t

[Rockerdem]

27. The more I study it the simpler it seems

a. Gannon was the product of a Texas Bush booster
b. Ergo, they let him in with a pass, knowing that he was a harmless friendly
c. When they found out that he had a "background", that was a plus (disposable, with a distracting sideshow).

So far its worked perfectly. He got in his arrogant licks, and there hasnt been a downside. Its so sordid the corporate press wont touch it.

[DU GrovelBot]

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