African American men or white women?

[CTLawGuy]

who holds more power in our society?

I'm actually VERY curious about this.

Because African Americans have faced an awful history of discrimination, but men have not.

and women in society have been discriminated against, but not white people.

I guess the question is, which oppression is stronger, racial or gender?

[Sanity Claws]

1. They're both strong

But I would say that African-American men have it the worst. A white female may share, through marriage or birth, in the riches of white men.
African-American men are less likely to get indirectly the riches that discrimination prevents them from getting.

[CTLawGuy]

4. that makes sense

thanks for responding!

[oasis]

2. Money = power. Check financial stats and you'll have your answer.

I'll save you some time by telling you it's white women by a landslide.

[physioex]

3. Depends on your metrics....

You can do a salary comparison, who holds more politcal influence, who votes more, who particapates more in the political process, education..... Things of that nature.

[jeffrey_X]

5. No question - White Women

..

[CTLawGuy]

7. why do you say that?

NT

[physioex]

11. I agree.....

Things like this ought to be approached in a scientific way. Ask a question, form a hypothesis, collect results, then draw conclusion. Allow your work to be debated and suggest things a person could do to refine your results.

[ultraist]

21. I agree and it's helpful to review stats broken out by gender and race

They are a reflection on our society. All of those stats are available on the US Census Bureau website.

If we are uneducated on the facts, how can we effectively work towards a solution?

[jeffrey_X]

12. it's just the conclusion I've reached.....

I think that race is a far bigger obstacle to overcome than gender in terms of judgement and stereotyping.

White woman have instant power when connected with a white man.

Black men get a very harsh rap in this country (i.e. thug life, crime, etc.) They have a much tougher history to overcome.

Just my 2 cents.

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. Simple solution.

Let black men marry white men.

[Clark2008]

28. Ah, but there are more white women

given to the temptation, based on rhetoric and misogyny, to believe that voting Republican is "better for their families"
I dare say that black men aren't as susceptible to this bull shit.
I'm a whitish woman (I'm Irish and Cherokee Indian and boy, do I look like it) and know many white women who voted for Shrub, to their peril. I don't know a soul (brother) who did, though! And I made it a POINT to work the polls in my black community (after Florida)!

[jeffrey_X]

36. Very true...

my mother and two sisters would fall into the same category.

[JanMichael]

6. There are two issues here that should not be waged against each other.

In America there exist Institutional Racism regarding Blacks. It's big bad and undeniably there.

In America there exists Institutional Sexism. It's big bad and undeniably there.

But they are different, they sprang from different sources and half of the Black population I'm assuming is Female, so this argument seems pointless to me.

Institutional Racism must be destroyed. Institutional Sexism must be destroyed.

Frankly Black women probably has have the strongest argument.

But, with me, all of these issues come together under the weight of Economic Oppression and Division.

[intheflow]

8. It's a tie, imo.

This question depends on your definition of power. Absolutely black men are more discriminated against economically, but I'll bet more white women are beaten or otherwise abused in their own homes.

[Warpy]

9. I've had a lot of interesting discussions about this

with all sorts of nonwhite women, from Asian to Native American to black. They perceive color discrimination as their biggest obstacle, but in those long discussions in the middle of the night, it's come out that I've had most of the same things happen to me as a generic northern European woman.

I don't experience the annoyances like being the last person waited on after the white folks, although I've seen it happen when I've been out and about and I haven't been particularly polite about letting it happen.

However, the really heavy handed economic and social oppression have all been because I'm female. The enormous difference in the level of medical care is because I'm female. The discrimination I've found in housing has been because I'm female.

[ultraist]

23. Living of standard stats and socioeconomic indicators show otherwise

I'm not discounting you have experienced sexism, I too, as a woman have. But white women do have better access to opportunity than do black men.

Life span for instance is much lower in black men. Access and quality of medical care is much better for white women than for black men. There are a lot of studies and there is a wealth of research in these areas.

NOT white women, but black women are the poorest segment of our society. WHY is this?

excerpts:
http://www.mit.edu:8001/activities/thistle/v9/9.01/6blackf.html

The Black Feminist movement in the seventies:

The purpose of the movement was to develop theory which could adequately address the way race, gender, and class were interconnected in their lives and to take action to stop racist, sexist, and classist discrimination.

Black Women Confronting Sexism and Racism

Black women who participated in the Black Liberation Movement
and the Women's Movement were often discriminated against sexually and
racially. Although neither all the black men nor all the white women
in their respective movements were sexist and racist, enough of those
with powerful influence were able to make the lives of the black women
in these groups almost unbearable. This section investigates the
treatment of black women in these two movements and aims to show how,
due to the inability of black men and white women to acknowledge and
denounce their oppression of black women, the movements were unable to
meet the needs of black women and prompted the formation of the Black
Feminist Movement, which, though it had been gathering momentum for
some time, marks its "birth" with the 1973 founding of the National
Black Feminist Organization in New York.

Black Women in the Black Liberation Movement

[superconnected]

10. both

as a white woman, even dealing with a group of neanderthal republicans, if I was standing in dissent against them, they aren't likely to physically harm me because I am a woman.

I expect the black man, in a situation where he is standing against the republicans, to get hung, if the republican group thought they could get away with it.

So I'm saying they have more hatred for black men, than white women.

Both are oppressed though. Women have a longer way to go in men accepting them as being mentally equal and competent. I don't care what nationality she is, or what nationality the men are, that one crosses to all races.

[Kerrytravelers]

14. It also depends upon where the power is sought.

In general, I'd say white women for all the reasons mentioned above. But, if one is defining the exact area power is sought, the answer may have qualifiers, exceptions, other reasons for the conclusion, etc.

I sure did clear that up, huh?

[seabeyond]

13. mlk said something about women being weeds......n/t

[CTLawGuy]

16. thats odd

is that an insult?

[seabeyond]

17. ya an insult. here is the quote.....but remember

he was male in the 50's, 60's. women, even their black women, all women had there place. just was the way it was.....not so anymore. cant put the genie back in the bottle. i love king and what he had to say. i also accept all that he was as a human in the truth of who he was

"girls begin to talk and to stand on their feet sooner than boys because weeds always grow up more quickly than good crops". Martin Luther

[CTLawGuy]

18. eeek.

if thats a true quote that is unfortunate.

I think we all, no matter what color or gender have a lot to learn about respecting others.

[ultraist]

26. Black women even faced racism from white women feminists in the 70s

That's why the black feminist movement was born. White women did not give black women equal status in the group, excluded them from important meetings, and marginalized them.



Black women are approximately 6% of the population
Black men are approximately 6% of the population
White women are approximately 40% of the population.

Which of those three groups likely will gain more power in a white male dominated society?

[ultraist]

19. White women hold more power based on socio economic indicators

Check the US Census Bureau stats and you will find that the percentage of white women that hold degrees is higher than the percentage of black men AND the same can be found in income.

24% of blacks in poverty
8% of whites in poverty

Black women are the poorest segment of our society. They face, sexism, racism, and classism.

The percentage of white women in poverty is MUCH LOWER than the percentage of black women AND black men.

There are also stats on who holds power postions like CEOs and lawmakers, broken down by race and gender. For instance, 90% of top CEO positions are held by white males.

What is the racial/gender composition of Congress? Isn't Obama only the second black man Senator EVER in the US? There are quite a few white women Senators.

[Hell in a Handbasket]

20. whiteness comes first. period. nt

[seabeyond]

22. well i dont know. look at a black male, white female

relationship. is the woman the dominant?

where as if you see a white in the social structure opposed to the black, the white would be more readily accepted

i guess it is in what form of power we are talking

on edit: i can see a black president before women

corporate, black males have risen in more quantity and higher and sooner than women

i am going to say male wins hand down

[Hell in a Handbasket]

24. well, he may be dominant in the relationship...

but who do you think a cop/judge/onlooker would be better to?

[seabeyond]

25. that is the social aspect i was talking

you are right there, that is for sure

[ultraist]

29. It is important to define power and the measures

In society, white women, according to socio economic stats, have more power (income, level of edu, access to quality healthcare, life span).

There are more white women in higher income positions than black males. There are more white women in high level gov't positions than black males.

If you are looking at the dynamics within one type of relationship, which is not a very common type of relationship in our society (very low percentage of white women with black men), there may be different dynamics than on a societal level. If the black male had more power, this would be an exception to the rule.

[theboss]

27. Where the white women at?

Sorry....someone had to say it.

[CTLawGuy]

31. thank you for mocking my thread

;)

[theboss]

37. I live to give....

It's what I do.

[mark414]

32. ha

[Clark2008]

34. What do you mean where are we at?

We're here.
But, we're being brainwashed - again.
Evil women are "killing and butchering." Yep, there's some evil women out there.
But a quick look at statistics tells us we're not the most evil - white, black or otherwise. White men still hold that reign as king.
And I love white men.
I just know it shouldn't be about all this crap, but it is.

[Djinn]

30. I'd go with white women

having more power but I'm basing that on a second hand view (and mixing it a bit with non whites in my own country) but I think class has even more to do with it.

In the who would a cop beleive/be nicer to theory, compare Colon Powell and Sharon Stokes an unemployed single mother who lives in the housing commission highrises?

Generall white women probably do better than black men but there are proviso's - which white women and which black men and what kind of power?

[DU GrovelBot]

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[faithfulcitizen]

35. ok, i'll be the odd duck, I think it's black men.

sorry, but it's still a man's world. power isn't just about what kind of car you drive. Women still make .67 cents on the dollar compared to men, black or white. Women couldn't vote until 1920! I think we'll have a black male pres before we have a women pres.

also, most people acknowledge racism as a problem...sexism on the other hand is most acceptable in many circles. It may be subtle or not-so-subtle, but it's *always* there...