Okay, a comment about "NAMBLA"...I'm sick of hearing about this:

[karlrschneider]

I do not think there really is such an 'organization'. I've heard and read references to it for 45 years now and have never met or spoken with any person who supports or encourages buggering little boys. There are probably a few sickos who do, but they can't be many (I hope)...
My opinion is that "NAMBLA" is an invention of some idiot right-wingnut person or group that wants to demonize gay men.

[jojo54]

1. Never heard of it

What is it and what does it represent?

[lectrobyte]

men in love with boys. I think it's a fabrication, too.

I think the acronym is for N-something A-something Man Boy Love Assoc.

[Mr_Spock]

5. North American Man-Boy Love Association

Something like that.

[lectrobyte]

2. National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes? Didn't they

have a conference in South Park Colorado a few years ago?

[sonicx]

6. After the South Park episode...

i looked it up and was shocked that it was real. i almost puked...

[sonicx]

3. dude...

if someone supported NAMBLA, do you think they'd admit it in public?

[lala_rawraw]

8. They do

They fucking admit it, have mailing lists, books, and so forth. There was a priest recently (I forget his name) who was a member. He would take his boys on trips to NAMBLA conventions. I forget his name, but it is sick. And it is real and they are operational which boggles my mind.

[jdj]

22. here's a press release about ACLU defending them in a case

"ACLU officials said NAMBLA members deny encouraging coercion, rape or violence.

Attorney Lawrence Frisoli, who represents the Curleys, said he is glad the ACLU is defending NAMBLA, because he has had trouble locating the group's members.

Harvey Silverglate, an ACLU board member, said Wednesday that the group's attorneys will try to block any attempt by the Curleys to get NAMBLA's membership lists, or other materials identifying members.

The ACLU also will act as a surrogate for NAMBLA, allowing its members to defend themselves in court while remaining anonymous.

According to the Globe, NAMBLA officials in the past have said their main goal is the abolition of age-of-consent laws that classify sex with children as rape."

http://www.operationlookout.org/lookoutmag/aclu_to_defend_nambla.htm

[dhinojosa]

4. I'd send you the webpage but it got removed from the powers that be.

So if the moderators removed it, you know it has to be real.

[lala_rawraw]

7. WRONG

They held a march even, lol...and let me tell you that some people I know spent 24/7 writing to Congress about them. This is a real group the last I checked, but I try to stay away from this stuff because this is just beyond what my mind can withstand without falling apart.

[jdj]

21. The have been at a march in DC that I was at.

there were a bunch of them

[lala_rawraw]

38. ewwww

This is my 2+2=5 line that cannot be crossed. I can handle somethings, but stuff like this makes me sick...ewwwwww:(

[Az]

9. Such thinking isn't new

Its simply seen as wrong in our society (and for some rather good reasons). But in many societies, particularly older ones, such relationships were much more common.

Greek society in fact had these types of relationships on a regular basis. In fact part of Odyseus(IIRC) concerns Hercules attempting to rescue his young male lover. These relationships were seen as passing one's knowledge on to the next generation.

[Journeyman]

10. I agree with you, karl. . .

it doesn't seem the sort of group that would have an organization of any sorts, membership cards and the like, as it would more likely be used against them than for their benefit. Seems these slime would just meet beneath their rocks and maintain informal contacts rather than voluntarily give the police the means to harass them.

[mn9driver]

11. This particular psychosis feeds on validation.

They know it's wrong. Every societal cue they ever picked up from the time their brains switched on tells them that it's wrong. So they need to make it "right" in order to live with themselves.

"I belong to an Association!" It gives them their essential internal legitimacy. The human ability to rationalize evil is amazing.

[Az]

12. Google it

They seem to be out there.

[lectrobyte]

13. I have to think if there were such a group, they would be so

busted. That would be every DA's re-election wet dream to arrest NAMBLA members.

[Bluebear]

17. sorry wrong placement

[Dookus]

23. arrest them for what?

belonging to a group isn't criminal.

[jdj]

24. Here's a CNN link about the ACLU defending them

On its Web site, NAMBLA says it is a political organization that favors repeal of age-of-consent laws, but opposes any form of sexual coercion.

NAMBLA did not return phone calls from CNN seeking comment on the lawsuit. The American Civil Liberties Union is defending NAMBLA in the name of free speech.

"There is room in this country for people who believe man-boy love is okay. There is room for people who believe, who say it, but not who do it," ACLU attorney Harvey Silvergate said.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW/01/08/nambla.suit.crim/

[jdj]

26. here's a statement from the ACLU on defending them

ACLU Statement on Defending Free Speech of Unpopular Organizations (Free Speech) (08/31/2000)

NEW YORK--In the United States Supreme Court over the past few years, the American Civil Liberties Union has taken the side of a fundamentalist Christian church, a Santerian church, and the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. In celebrated cases, the ACLU has stood up for everyone from Oliver North to the National Socialist Party. In spite of all that, the ACLU has never advocated Christianity, ritual animal sacrifice, trading arms for hostages or genocide. In representing NAMBLA today, our Massachusetts affiliate does not advocate sexual relationships between adults and children.

http://search.aclu.org/AdvancedSearchResults.cfm

I don't think they would defend make-believe people. Welcome to our nightmare.

[Djinn]

25. what would you arrest them for?

not saying I approve of them at all but what would be the charge. They exist - I'd always assumed it was bullshit too but a few years ago found their website with very open "contact us" details

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Az]

15. With an IP based addie yep

They can't use a fixed server as they probably get chased down on a regular basis. So they float it and simply post updates to the DNS server.

[lectrobyte]

16. I don't even want to click on that link, but I'll take your word for it.

Although it just astounds me. I suppose next someone will be telling me there is a National Association of Burglary or somesuch...

[Az]

20. Its not too astounding

There are all sorts of attractions that occur. Not all fit our social structure. At one time Gays and Lesbians were met with this very same reaction.

There are all sorts of drives in the human psyche. Not all of them are safe for social expression. Those unfortunate individuals that have such drives do not live happy lives. If they express their desires they become criminals and lose much more. They can't form stable relationships. If they are open about their desires they are ostracized. If they manage to keep it bottled up they spend their entire life bottled up.

Our society needs to protect itself from such individuals. Children simply cannot make intelligent and informed descisions about such matters. Its our job to protect them. But the existance of these type of people creates a very ugly dynamic. They exist and are percieved as monsters. But they did not choose to be that way. Their life is a hell one way or the other.

[UdoKier]

40. They are monsters.

"Children simply cannot make intelligent and informed descisions about such matters."

That being the case, anyone who hasn't enough empathy and concern for the future of a vulnerable child that they would take advantage of them IS a monster.

If there are people out there who have this feeling and don't act on it (and hopefully get therapy), then I commend them, But if you consume child porn or molest children, you are a monster, and you deserve whatever comes your way in the cell block.



(By 'you' I don't mean YOU, Az.)

[Liberal In Texas]

18. I've heard of it. These guys are pretty sick puppys.

The MM
MJ's of the world. Preditors of children.

I have no use for them.

[Bluebear]

19. The RW news drags NAMBLA out to equate gays with pedophilia

Thank you for your post. Gay adults overwhelmingly denounce any such behavior. Those few sickos who want to 'love boys' are certainly not championed by gays and just because there is a "website" doesn't make this a legitimate "organization".

A yahoo news search of "NAMBLA" today offers the story in question offered by FOX news and stations in Deltona, Florida and Columbia, South Carolina.

From one of the stories: "The group is believed to have 300 to 400 active members who promote a pedophile lifestyle both on the Web and through regular mail."

This is a deeply underground group of 300 assholes who use the internets for their sick tastes similar to any horrible child sex ring out there. Dignifying them by calling them an "organization" serves no purpose.

[mn9driver]

27. There are more than 300.

I have a relative I formerly actually cared a bit about who got caught up in this shit. He was caught with a mind numbing array of horrors. I got to visit the police property room and witness to it. It took hours to identify him in the various videos and stills. Gigabytes and gigabytes and gigabytes (at that time, actually, it was VHS, mostly-edit). Years of emails, thousands of contacts.

He's been in prison for 14 years now. I hope he dies there.

[Chipper Chat]

28. After reading all these posts I am stunned by the criticism and

condemnation of a group which obviously very few of you (including myself) know anything about. You are taking the name at face value and assuming it is a sex organization, which may not be true.
It reminds me of the reaction from most Pub right-wingers to Farenheit 911 ("Nope, hate it -I wont go - it's all lies, dont want to see that crap - Moore is a fat loser, hates Bush, all lies, all Democrats are gay-loving pussies, anyone who votes for Kerry is unpatriotic, the DNC is a communist organization, Moore should be arrested for treason, etc."
Get my drift?

[sonicx]

30. Years ago, I went to their website...

after a South Park episode that made fun of them. They are beyond condemn worthy.

[mitchum]

31. WTF???!!!

NAMBLA does have a well-documented history. And they are indeed a sex organization. What? Do you think they are some kind of mentoring service group?

[jdj]

34. 'sex after eight is too late'-Nambla motto.

are you serious are being sarcastic.

They want to fuck children. that is their sole purpose, to decriminalize pedophilia. YOU may not know anything about them, so welcome to the real world. I wish I was so lucky, but unfortunately, I have to see their ugly asses at gay pride marches, although if we had any choice about it they would not be allowed there, but thanks to the ACLU and their lawyers, there's nothing we can do.

GET A CLUE, accept that some people know more than you.

the name stands for the North American Man Boy Love Association. what more info do you need. Click on the ACLU link in my above post if you don't believe me

[Chipper Chat]

36. You dont have to be rude with your reply.

I thought his was a discussion forum - not a vindictive "gotcha" site.
I appreciate all the enlightenment and helpful answers, but disdain those who would insult other members' intelligence.

[jdj]

37. you are the one who said this:

"After reading all these posts I am stunned by the criticism and
condemnation of a group which obviously very few of you (including myself) know anything about. You are taking the name at face value and assuming it is a sex organization, which may not be true."

That insulted my intelligence.

It comes from years of being treated like a sex criminal and dangerous to children for being gay, and then having someone say that I'm mixed up about the scourge that is NAMBLA, which have the nerve to march in gay pride marches when they are not GAY, they are pedophiles, and cast aspersions on the whole gay community. As a gay person and a survivor of child sexual abuse, I hope they rot in hell squared.

You touched a nerve. Kaboom.

[Chipper Chat]

44. It may take another 100 years before society stops condemning gays

for the reason you suggest. But just as the fringes of "straight" society (the Nazis, McVeys, Phelps's, women who drown their own kids, psychos who become president, etc) should be studied for the sake of the betterment of society, so should we try to understand and offer a helping hand to "those with unapproved proclivities?" Also, this is apparently not an exclusively-gay issue. What about the recent rash of older women teachers seducing teenage boys? Maybe there is a "North American Woman-Boy Love(sex)Association" that we dont know about?

[tishaLA]

45. Where have you seen this motto?

from NAMBLA? I really doubt it.

I have a suspicion it's mythology and nothing more.

[mn9driver]

35. Sorry. This group is evil. Period.

They have no redeeming value whatsoever. Feel free to be open minded about them if you like. But don't ever, ever talk to me about it and expect me to be nice. They are sick scum.

[mitchum]

29. Socrates: "Who's your daddy?"

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[Technowitch]

33. No, sadly, it does exist

[UdoKier]

39. The only time I EVER heard of it was from Limbaugh, etc.

... and I have plenty of gay male friends...

[charlie]

41. FWIW

Back in the eighties, there used to be a NAMBLA "spokesman" who'd occasionally pop up and make the TV news interview rounds. It was really jarring to see that be-wigged pasted-on-mustache freak arguing for boysex on the tube.

[UdoKier]

42. Oh, I'm not saying it doesn't exist.

I'm just saying I think it's so obscure that without the hype from the right, we'd never have heard of it (and its membership would probably be a fraction of what it is)

[undergroundpanther]

43. Pedophilia

Is NOT the same thing as being straight gay or BI.
Sexual preferences are not the same as a fetish for dominating powerless people un unequal manipulating non consenting sexual exploitation..
Pedophilia isn't about sexual preference or"love it's about abusing power and control~like rape is.

I wish every pedophile would do the right thing for once and kill themselves.

Nambla is advocating 'normalizing" a sickness,one that has made countless individuals suffer and entire cultures sick. Since sexual abuse of kids was OK in ancient Rome or Greece,so were ,abuse of women,keeping people as chattel slaves,religious infanticide, torture and fathers in Rome could kill their own kids if they wanted to,on a whim and the mother/family had no say about it because the child was the fathers property to dispose if he wanted to.It was the ultimate father knows best king of the household tyranny.

So just because ignorant ancient people did it doesn't make it good,moral,sane or even healthy for humans.Ancient people could be sociopaths,ancient people can be ignorant just like neocons today are. More people nowadays are beginning to realize the generational effects of pedophilia and child abuse and are able to look at how it has hurt our cultures ,countless individuals and hurt our entire species and it's ability to relate to each other and this world.

It's DE evolution to seek to go back to the days of old in ancient Rome or Greece where kids were completely treated as objects for(usually male) adult use. This tragedy already happens too much in Modern culture. It was rampant in ancient culture and there was no one who stopped these adult bullies because it was "culturally sanctioned" abuse..Today when adults who should know better than that do abuse kids they demonstrate they don't have enough empathy with their own childhood vulnerabilities to stop . Like since time began adults Ego and adult selfish wants/control/domination get in the way of earning and keeping a child's respect,and because adults lack empathy with kids there is hurt...too much still.

[Moderator]

46. Locking

This discussion has run its course.