Freeper homophobia in the work place. Need advice!

[romantico]

I am SO PISSED! Theres a friend of mine who I have taken on as a little brother. He's 22, gay, & his family doesn't have much to do with him. He'll come my place & we'll rent dvds or play video games or just go to the mall. He also does things with my girlfriend & some of her friends. He's pretty shy, keeps to himself & we have more or less adopted him into our family. This past Thanksgiving & Christmas he spent with us & our family & you get the impression the guy has just never been loved before.

So, with that background he tells me something yesterday that just made my blood boil. He started working at this office this past November doing data processing. No one at work really talks to him or has much to do with him. On Friday he was at lunch & a lady who almost never speaks to him came over & told him that there was a rumor going around about him. She said people think your queer & I thought you should know. If I were you I'd watch your back. Just some friendly advice.

Now, this woman NEVER talks to him. I told him he should have marched up to personal & bitched about harassment. I would called a lawyer, the ACLU, the labor board & made such a big stink over it. Instead, he just went home & felt bad all weekend. He was afraid to go to work yesterday. I told him to start looking for another job but he keeps telling me that he regrets telling me anything about this & wish's I would just drop it. My question is, should I?

[bowens43]

1. Drop it. He's an adult, let him make his own decisions.

[Vincardog]

2. You should He can do what ever he decides to do

[Puglover]

3. Probably.

Unfortunately you can't fight his fights for him. As a gay man in a really straight white male work environment I had to fight mine. No one fucks with me as they know I can be meaner then shit if I have to be. I also come across as a "regular guy" which is no better certainly then a gay male that comes off as a gay male but many straight folks seem to react better to that. I agree with you however in that I would have had the Freeper wench in HR so fast it would have made her Freepy head spin.

[LondonAmerican]

4. i think it depends

on just how serious the implied threat was that was delivered to him.

if it is indeed serious then i would not drop it at all and would make sure that someone - police most likely - were informed of it.

[BR_Parkway]

5. You should respect his choices - let him come into his indignation all on

his own - it will matter more to him when it's personal, vs the manufactured outrage that we see the pundit/whores using. It's enough to know that you wanted to help and support him, the support he needs now is that you respect his decision.

Depending on where you live/work - there may not be a damn thing that could be accomplished if he did go to personnel, except to get him fired. The number of places that protect gay rights in the workplace far undernumber the ones that don't

[hfojvt]

24. they do not need to protect gay rights in this case

They need to protect privacy rights. My sexual orientation and/or sexual activity are not subjects for my co-workers to discuss unless I am the one who starts it. I would invoke the sexual harrassment policy so fast and so hard that it would rattle teeth. Even if there is not a company policy, there is probably a state law against sexual harrassment.
I do not think the woman giving the warning is the enemy, but she is probably required to report violations of the sexual harrassment policy (that is, people talking about me). So I would goto human resources and find out if they want to push for naming names or just send out a notice reminding people to mind their own business.
It is up to him, of course, but I would try to start a rumor in the company that I am not a person to be messed with. As Charlie Daniels said: "If you don't like the way I'm living, you just leave this long-haired country boy alone."

[Ganja Ninja]

6. Let him handle it.

If he wants to change jobs or raise a stink he can. It's not for you to butt-in. It's his job and his life let him take care of it.

[demnan]

7. No one has a right to approach someone

and make a comment like that (did she really use the word, queer?) :puke: Is everyone in your company that bad? or is this just one bad egg. I would stand up for my friend, and have in similiar situations. (I had someone accuse me and a childhood friend who was working at my company of being gay and I complained to management, not that I was worried about being gay, I'm not, but I didn't like the bullying attitude the bitch took with me.) Is there someone in a management position you could trust to confide this story?

I know where I work now this kind of prejudice wouldn't be tolerated. (It wasn't tolerated where I used to work either, and that was a Defense Contractor full of right-wingers - the "bitch" lost her management position over her rude remark). Unless you work way down in the Bible Belt I suspect this "bitch" would be reprimanded too. Unless he brings his sexuality into the workplace, his sexuality is his own business, not anyone else's.

[romantico]

12. Well,

Thanks for the advice. I guess I should just but out. Its very frusterating though to just sit back & watch. I told him what I would do & how she is clearly breaking the law. On how that is considered harassment & how he has the right to work & do his job without any kind of fear like this at all. Anyway, thanks again!

[candle_bright]

8. Was the lady

giving him a heads-up to what was being said behind his back, or was she dropping a veiled threat of her own?

[tcoursen]

9. did she threaten him or warn him?

The way you describe it makes it almost sound like she was trying to tell him that OTHERS were possibly out to get him, not that she was the one that had a problem with it.

Maybe I am reading it wrong, but I kinda think she was trying to help him by giving him a heads up.

He may want to talk to her more and find out more about what she meant, and who he should worry about. Telling him to watch his back doesn't do him much good unless he knows who to watch out for.

[Puglover]

13. If someone said to me

"If I were you I'd watch my back. Just some friendly advice" I wouldn'nt take it as friendly at all. It sounds like thinly veiled smarmy insult and a vague threat to me.

[tcoursen]

18. but you are leaving off the first part of her statement

You are leaving off the first part of what she said. But the part about there being a rumor makes it sound like it could be a warning. I think a lot depends on the tone in how she said it.

Why would somebody that was going to be out to get you tell you to watch your back? If they are gonna get you and stab you in the back, are they gonna warn you? I wouldn't think so.

if she was out to get him she might as well have said "Hey, I'm gonna try and get you fired, so when it happens, hey it was me." I don't think somebody who was out to get him would bother to warn him, they would just do it.

[pacalo]

26. I agree.

I think he should have her clarify that remark about having to watch his back. I didn't like her choice of words, but I get the impression that she was giving him a heads up.

[InternalDialogue]

10. Is the threat real?

If your friend's coworker just said there was a rumor going around that he was gay, well, people can gossip.

But that part about "I'd watch your back" is too much of a threat. If that's true, I'd advise your friend to pursue reports with the ACLU, the courts, etc. It will be uncomfortable to disrupt his personal and professional life to deal with it, but he received a threat based on nothing more than his sexual orientation. That's illegal, and even if he chooses to find another job, his current employer and his homophobic coworkers need to confronted by the appropriate authorities.

Ask your friend what he'd do if he returned to his office after the weekend and found his desk rifled through and his personal possessions stolen. He'd pursue justice after that crime, even if he left the job because it made him uncomfortable to stay afterward. Same thing with this threat.

[Onlooker]

11. Afraid to go to work?

If his job is that homophobic, then there's a problem. I faced a problem at my job a few years ago, when a colleague of mine, drunk at a company party, started directing truly offensive comments at me. At first I did nothing because I figured he was a drunk asshole, but then a colleague of mine took me aside. She was in tears and told me that she had a gay son, and she was just terrified that he would experience similiar treatment in his workplace. That motivated me to get in gear, and I complained very strongly. The company had a good nondiscrimination policy, and soon I was in a position to get the guy fired. He was an older man with a family, etc., etc. I simply demanded an apology and pressed the company for diversity training, which they did reluctantly. (The guy gave me a heartfelt apology. He had tears in his eyes, which were probably because he thought his job was on the line.) If your friend is afraid to go to work, he should at least call a gay advocacy group (like www.glad.org) and discuss the situation with them. I would suggest the idea to him, but then let him be. You might also urge him to simply jot down names, dates, and incidents so that if things get worse, he at least has the option to fight back.

[libnnc]

14. I feel so bad for this kid

When I was his age, I had just come out (I'm a lesbian) and I had the worst time feeling comfortable in the various work environments I was in. It's tough enough for a young person trying to make his/her place in the world let alone being gay/lesbian.

From personal experience, this is going to sound crappy I know, but the young man might have a point. It may do him no good to go to personel/HR. It may just make matters worse for him. I would encourage him to find another job (if that's at all possible).

After looking around and spinning my wheels, I was lucky to have worked for a great company (gay owned) for a long time in my mid 20's. Kinda wish I was still there, (I quit to go back to school).

I feel your frustration. These are pissy, horrible times in which we live and there is a sense of urgency about combating homophobia when one encounters it. But...he's so young and sounds so defeated already. Maybe it would serve him better to just find another job, don't burn any bridges right now...I don't know. The pissed off lesbian in me says "Hell yes, make a frigging stink!!" but then I'm reminded of where I was at his age...

It's great that he has friends like you. Just continue to be there for him. You're a good egg.

[BeeBee]

15. I agree with the others...

you should let him deal with this his way. He's lucky to have you as a friend and hopefully you'll be there to support him if he needs it.

[swimmernsecretsea]

16. Well, not exactly...

See, the problem is, he's very young, has no personal support base other than you and your friends, and is apparently vulnerable to criticism in what could end up being a hostile work environment, certainly an unfriendly one. It's not readily apparent that this co-worker came to him with his welfare in mind, but it doesn't appear to be the case, and caution should be heeded.

My suggestion would be to continue to keep his trust, but have a talk with him. Tell him that you enjoy his friendship, and because of that, you were very disturbed by the incident at his workplace. Let him know that you will not betray his confidence (and follow through) but that you advise him to start documenting anything similar, including anti-gay jokes, remarks, incidents of harrassment, suspicion of being descriminated against in job security and promotion. Let him know that this kind of circumstance should not happen to anyone, but you don't want to step in unless he asks you to. Find out if he feels confident in the company's HR department to discuss the incident with anyone.

The reason why I suggest this course of action is that if his work environment becomes more hostile, (and my unfortunate feeling is that it will) he will have the leverage to show his employers that he has sufficent material for a legal case, if it comes to that. Immediately going on the defensive and provoking the employer will only serve to drive a bigger wedge between the rest of the staff and himself and could turn into retaliation.

It also appears that your friend is withdrawn and has very low self-esteem due to a poor family background. I don't know if you've considered this, but perhaps counseling, at least to help him strengthen as a person is needed.

I have been that person. I know what it's like. It's terrible, and you feel so alone. I still have my documentation, but thank heavens I never had to use it.

[noamnety]

19. Documenting is the best recommendation

He can do that without being confrontational, which it sounds like he's trying to avoid. And if things do escalate in any way, he's got a record of what happened.

[progressoid]

17. Sounds like he needed to vent and wanted some support

not necessarily your vengeance.
He sounds like someone I once knew. Help him find his place in the world. He's young and will need some support to get through the his early adult life. But if he doesn't want to fight this battle, you can't force him. Sadly, he'll have plenty of chances in future battles.

[applegrove]

20. Tell him to go to the "Bully On Line site". It is british but they have

lots of advice about situations in the workplace. Could be they are just a bunch of idiots and have never had the priviledge of knowing anyone who happens to be gay. Tell him to not put up with it and quit if it gets bad. That the stress of being targetted in the office is much worse for you than loosing your job and having to look for another. Especially if you are shy and quiet. I know - because I went through the stress of being an 'outsider' when I was very young. And it took alot out of me and put me into crisis.

I also went through being stocked and harassed by an abject monster. Targeted, mobbed, persecuted. That feels quite a bit different and Bully On line goes into stuff like that too. And it talks about the differences between the two. It also talks about the type of people who get targeted and that is important because your friend sounds like someone who could find themselves targeted again and again.

I would think just getting online and reading up on the situations that happen would be very, very important. That way he truly can know/test/feel when it has hit a point that is unacceptable. So that he has some reference posts to help him decide the best course of action.

The problem with the shy is that they may be used to 'taking it' or are too empathetic and they may not know their boundaries. I would get this person to the Bully on line site and then get them into therapy (because being treated like he is by his family is very traumatic on its own and he needs good advice about how to heal from that - that alone is a huge thing). There are books out there like the "highly sensitive person" series that are very helpful. Also local community colleges teach 'assertiveness courses'. Your friend has been through alot and needs some help from somewhere to 'put them through a renaissance'. This information is empowering to the passive. Trust me - most of the lessons he has to learn (save for getting away from exploiters and avoiding being a target) are lots of fun. For the passive it is about learning to extend your boundaries...now how much fun is that!! For without the proper boundaries (and friends or family may not have taught him that) he may attract more and more nefarious types as he ages.

You seem like a wonderful person. I would like to pat you on the back or send you flowers but I can tell that living as a great human being is reward enough for you already and to know this truth at such a young age is amazing and you will certainly do you well over a lifetime (kind of like compound interest).

[Toucano]

21. I think you should drop it.

Let him handle it. It sounds like he's ready to handle it himself.

Since you're probably one of the only people he trusts, it wouldn't be worth it for you do anything that might make him withdraw from you. He needs a confidant.

We can only give good advice to people, not force them to take it.

I'm not sure that what was said to him will constitute harassment in the legal sense anyway. It's only one incident, after all.

I'd be looking for a more positive environmnet for sure.

[dandrhesse]

22. go with the flow

I can only speak from my own experience as a mom. There have been lots of times when my "blood has boiled" because of an injustice done to one of my kids, but they have to live with the consequences of the actions you are suggesting.

He probably feels more anxious about letting you down than he does about the comment made at work. He may need you to acknowledge that he is an adult and able to make his own decisions. You might want to apologize for reacting so strongly, by explaining to him that you care about him and hearing that someone hurt his feelings and made threatening remarks made you angry. He may have only wanted a comment like, "wow that was a really lousy thing to say, how do you feel about it?"

This is not easy to do. It is especially difficult given his circumstances. It is hard to acknowledge to yourself that you can't make it better for him. I know that if I make to "big a deal" out of something, then my kids will be reluctant to tell me anything for some time.

I usually say something like "so how's it going?" and let them lead me where they want to go. If they want your help, most likely they will ask for it, but unlessit is specifically requested, give as little advice as possible.

By giving advice and them following it, you are agreeing to take the responsibility for the outcome and giving them the impression that they are incapable of making their own choices. Remind yourself and him that you are both on the learning curve and incidents like this will happen, but it is okay. You can work through it and your relationship with him will be fine, no matter how he handles it you will respect his decisions.

[romantico]

23. Just to clear up a few things

No, there was no threat. She wasn't saying this to be friendly or nice. She could care less about him, thats whats so ironic. She enevr gives this guy the time of day & never has anything to say to him. Them one day all of a sudden she feels its her duty to warn him? No, she's playing games.

He's afraid to go to work, not in fear of his life or anything but because now he's the focus of gossip. He now knows the office is talking about him beind his back & they're judging him, yet they don't talk to him or have even bothered to get to know him. They have made it VERY clear that they don't take to homosexuals very kindly. By the way, someone there must have good gaydar. My friend is very straight acting & doesn't talk to anyone there. For all they know he could have a girlfriend, or a kid.

[dandrhesse]

31. it's good that he feels comfortable talking with you.

maybe he will continue to talk through his options with you. If he is directly asking you what to do and you honestly don't know what would be best maybe you could seek the help of a counselor. If he just wants to "think out loud" try to listen without offering advice or trying to solve it for him. He may just need to get it all out and talk about what he thinks might happen to get it straight in his head.

[fat free goodness]

25. Some things to keep in mind:

a) The person who never talks to him was trying to do him a favor. She assumed he was not gay, and the false rumor would damage him. She is not the one to get in trouble re harassment.
b) She may be correct that the rumor will damage him. It should not, but she seems to think so, and she it as close as you can come to a disinterested observer who wants fair play. (Never speaks to him, right? But did inform him of a "false" rumor about him?)
c) The damage may not come in the form of career problems, but in the form of snubbing, which it seems he's already experiencing. IE: it may get no worse than now. It may get better as people get to know him and see past their prejudice.
d) ACLU etc. will NOT help. Oh, they may force a policy statement, but this probably already exists. HR may come out on his side without any such prodding, if he were to complain. But since this interpersonal relationships, what exactly would a lawyer do?
e) If he's afraid to go to work, he should let the personnel people know that this is the case, and that he would like to search for another job rather than make a stink about it. He expects at least their cooperation and good references, and possibly assistance. HR people talk to each other, and referral is not far-fetched. They will NEVER admit or put it in writing that their environment is hostile to gays, but may well be willing to point him in the right direction and tell the HR people there that he is a good worker. After all, this helpd them out of a messy issue also. It may be better to search around without their involvement, however.

[WLKjr]

27. I have a similar situation with a cousin

it's tough, I still don't believe him. But all in all, he's my cousin and we still go do stuff. Nothing has changed.


Personally I would tell him the same thing and exlpain that what they did was wrong and is against the law and that they can be punished for such actions. And I would leave it at that saying, "Now you know what the deal is, you decide what is right to do and what is wrong to do."

[Bridget Burke]

28. He needs your advice.

Don't specifically tell him what to do. But--most companies have policies against discrimination. Can he find out what his outfit offers?

Do continue to encourage him. If he's scared to go to work, he definitely needs help. With his self esteem--& with dealing with the assholes at work.

[kweerwolf]

29. So many variables in this situation

First of all, does the company have an GLBT-inclusive non-discrimination policy? If it does, then he can go to personnel to report the incident.

If there is no company policy, does the city or state in which the company is located have an employment non-discrimination policy that includes GLBTs? It's not quite as strong as having a company policy in place, but it does provide some measure of protection.

As for going to the ACLU, I'd say don't waste your time. I lost a job specifically because I was gay and when I contacted the ACLU their response was that since sexual orientation isn't covered by any laws, they weren't interested in hearing my case. (In other words, I rated lower than a Nazi wanting to parade through a Jewish neighborhood ... so fuck you very much, ACLU.)

Before you encourage your friend to take on the company he works for, remember that despite the gains made in gay rights over the past decade, it is still legal in the majority of the company to fire a person simply because they are gay or lesbian.

[Behind the Aegis]

30. More advice

As someone who has worked as an advocate, it is more important you support him and show that support. You may be angry, and it is OK to show him you are angry, but just don't go 'overboard.' This will make him feel that he has hurt you! Instead, give him ideas about what to do (some great suggestions above), and let him know you are there to LISTEN to him without judging him.

Although this is not as bad, in some respects, as rape, put it in that frame. When someone reports a rape, it is the duty of the advocate to tell the victim/survivor, what his/her options are and that there are NO wrong choices. What the victim/survivor needs is an ear and shoulder, they need to feel as if they are in control. They get to call the shots. This is the same with this young man. He needs to feel he has choices and will affect his own life.

I wish you luck!