Store demands fingerprint when credit card is used

[rainbow4321]

http://whnt.com/Global/story.asp?S=2947492&nav=1VPtWNA4

Monica Sudeall from Harvest, Alabama wanted a watch. It was a Wednesday, and she had plans to give it to her friend on a Friday. And only one store had the watch she wanted to buy: Friedman's Jewelry.

So Monica went to the store and picked out the watch she wanted, but when she got to the counter, she got a surprise. The clerk demanded her fingerprint. "I really thought they were kidding," Monica says. They weren't. As part of a fraud-prevention program called 'Crimebite,' Friedman's asks for a fingerprint every time someone uses a credit card.

<snip>

We called Friedman's to see how they were protecting customers. They wouldn't go on camera for an interview, but they did say the fingerprints weren't really intrusive at all. You leave the fingerprints with them, and they put them in a drawer with your receipt. If the customer comes back later and says 'Someone stole my credit card and used it here,' they've got the fingerprint, and they know who it was.

They add the program's been "highly successful" in the two years they've used it nationwide as a "psychological deterrent." Friedman's also says, "You lose the effectiveness of the whole policy if a customer turns it down" because "if someone has your credit card, they might be the one saying they don't need it."

[SoCalDem]

1. All of our banks do this when you cash a check.. grocers too

It only works though if there are prints "on file" to compare to:)

Mine are not :)

[Pithlet]

5. Wow. I've been out of the loop for awhile.

Maybe customers won't be as wary of it as I thought.

[amazona]

22. "all" banks do it? I've never encountered this even once

I have several local bank accounts and have never encountered this.

You have to give a fingerprint to buy groceries?

If you say so...I can't imagine that many people tolerating such nonsense in my area.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[queerart]

38. The Banks In My Area (New Mexico)

Only fingerprint folks that do not have accounts at the bank (Bank Of America)... but that are cashing checks on the bank in question. They also must pay a surcharge for cashing the check, which I think is in the $5.00 - $10.00 range... but anyone with an account has never been fingerprinted when doing normal business. (but there again, that's just in my area)................

[LoZoccolo]

2. They used to do this with checks in the 70s.

It was pretty common, actually.

[Pithlet]

3. It gets to a point where it is too much.

Customers understand that credit card fraud happens, and that credit card companies lose a lot of money that way. But, safeguards can get too intrusive on the customer. It may bite them back. Getting fingerprinted is associated with criminal arrest and guilt. People aren't going to like it.

I don't understand why a retailer would be so gung ho about this. They are the ones who have to face the unhappy customer who doesn't want to be finger printed. But, it is usually the credit card companies that eat the cost of fraud, not the retailers. I would thing the retailers would fight this trend. I can understand why the credit card companies would be pushing this.

[Xithras]

6. Chargebacks go to the retailer.

When a customer calls their credit card company and complains that they've been charged for something they didn't buy, the CC company will do a chargeback on it. That chargeback comes out of the retailers account.

[Pithlet]

32. Not necessarily.

It only comes out of the retailer's account if it is proven that the retailer didn't follow their end of the bargain. For example, if the signature on the receipt and the back of the card doesn't match, the CC company will likely hold the retailer responsible.

I worked in fraud control for a major credit card company. It is possible the rules have changed since then, but there is a reason CC companies eat a lot of the charge backs. They want retailers to accept their cards. Retailers don't have to. If they took money out of a retailer's account every time fraud occurred, they'd have a much harder time getting them to take the card.

[alarimer]

17. I would have said " I guess I am taking my business elsewhere"

No particular item is that important.

[Pithlet]

35. Same here.

The more I think about it, the more I'm against it. Asking for ID or even requiring a phone number is one thing. Finger prints are our physical makeup, and requiring a copy of that is intrusive.

[chicofaraby]

39. My answer is...

Do you want to sell this item? No? Bye.

I don't allow stores to search my bags either. Fry's, the Guitar Center and others have tried to search my bag on the way out. I just say no. They ALWAYS back down.

[Xithras]

4. As others have said, this has been common for decades

I've inked my finger for checks more times that I can count. Personally, expanding it to creadit and check cards sounds like a good idea to me. I lost a couple thousand bucks to CC theives just last year because someone got ahold of my check card and rang up some electronics without my permission. They might have thought twice if they'd had to leave a fingerprint.

[Zenlitened]

8. Whah? I've never in all my life heard of this.

Is it limited to certain regions of the country?

:shrug:

[amazona]

29. well not to contradict the other poster but come ON

First of all, at least in the U.S. you can't lose "a couple thousand" to credit card thieves. Your liability is limited to $50 per stolen credit card.

If the person is not confused and actually paid the "couple thousand" falsely charged to their card, they allowed themselves to be robbed by the credit card company in violation of federal law. Giving fingerprints can't help you if you refuse to inform yourself of the very basics of your consumer rights.

I've had my credit card stolen. I've had "thousands" charged. You know what I paid?

Zero!

And no one has taken my fingerprint, this is just silly on the face of it. A real criminal would know to just smear his finger around -- that's how they got around this requirement in the 70s -- an unreadable fingerprint deters no one from stealing a credit card.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[rainbow4321]

40. And if they know their fingerprints are NOT on file anywhere...

the "crook" just may happily give his/her prints. Good luck to the cops tracking them down if no one has a previous print on them. Why not just ask for a PHOTO ID at time of purchase...much more of an immediate way of finding fraud instead of filing prints and receipts away in a drawer.

[WillowTree]

45. You might want to read that post again.

What he said was

"I lost a couple thousand bucks to CC thieves just last year because someone got ahold of my check card....."

That federal law you refer to doesn't apply to debit cards so there wouldn't necessarily be a $50 limitation. All banks handle that differently and he could easily have had to bite the proverbial bullet for a couple of thousand dollars depending on where he banks and what their policies are regarding check cards. Did you not know that?

And the condescending tone was rather uncalled-for, too.

[Pithlet]

9. I have never been finger printed.

For anything.

The CC company held you liable for those charges? That is unusual too, unless this happened at the beginning of check cards. I think there was a time when customers were held liable, but I don't think that is the case any longer.

[Xithras]

14. Really?

Out here in California most grocery stores have the little inkwells built right into the counter on the little check-writing platform. The big national chains like Walmart and Target don't do it, but most other stores, whether they're selling jewelry, clothing, or groceries, do require a fingerprint from checkwriters. It's pretty standard, and has been for as long as I can remember.

As for those charges, I did eventually get the money back. But when someone drains half of your money two days after payday, before you even get a chance to pay your bills, you can end up in some deep financial sh^t. It took me months to correct the damage.

[Book Lover]

16. Not in SFBA

I've written checks at Safeway and never been asked for my fingerprint.

[Xithras]

19. Safeway does in the Central Valley.

I was just in a Safeway on Monday (buying some last minute roses for my wife), and my son was playing with the inkwell as we were checking out. I wonder if it's a regional thing :shrug:

[Book Lover]

20. Must be

I've had it done at a B of A in the city proper some years ago, but figured it was OK as I was bringing in a hand-written paycheck to be cashed, and I was not a B of A customer, but Safeway? Sheesh...

[K-W]

18. No, most stores dont do it. California is not the rest of the country.

I have never seen a store fingerpring anyone in my entire life.

[Xithras]

23. Of couse it is!

;)

FWIW, if it's so rare outside of California, I'd be curious to know how it got started here. I've never really thought about it before.

[Pithlet]

26. I think you live in an alternate universe.

Maybe you took the green pill ;)

[Pithlet]

21. Maybe it's regional.

I've never been printed, and no retail establishment, even the large ones, including a large nationwide jewelry store chain I worked at, ever required it. This has been several states. Granted, I haven't written a check for anything in years, but I think I would have noticed the finger print machine. I never use cash.

I just asked my husband who has worked retail all over the place, and he says he also has never been printed for anything, nor any of the places he worked at required it.

[Xithras]

31. It's not a "machine".

It's just a little 1.5" round container with a hard sponge under the lid. When you're writing a check you just flip the lid open, tap your thumb on the pad, and press it on the check. Voila, your check now has your fingerprint on it.

Do your stores require your drivers license number and home telephone number? Most stores here want those as well. Maybe it's just a big conspiracy to get people to stop writing checks :)

[Pithlet]

34. I assumed it would be a machine.

An ink pad just seems so 20th century. Plus, I'd hate getting the ink on my fingers. I'm nutty about that. I don't even like getting my hand stamped for anything. Ick.

Yes, usually they haves require a DL# or phone number. But those are numbers separate from our bodies, and can change. I don't have the same DL# or phone number I had even 5 years ago. I'm just uneasy about finger prints.

[tx_dem41]

7. Pay in cash then. If you are using a credit card or a check, you are..

...asking the store to trust you. I think they have the right, within reason, to ensure you are who you say you are.

[K-W]

10. Clearly we should bend over backwards to accomidate businesses.

Obviously it is they not us who have rights.

Since when is fingerprinting people within reason?

[tx_dem41]

13. They aren't the Government. You have a choice not to shop at their

establishment. That is the risk that they take by establishing such a policy.

[K-W]

15. Well as long as it isnt the government abusing me, I guess im not abused.

That beautiful american logic again.

And pray tell, what exactly stops the store from giving your fingerprint to the government?

[tx_dem41]

25. I don't know what the law is on that account. If you are squeamish...

about it, you have the right to shop elsewhere.

You don't have the right to have your credit or check accepted anywhere. In fact, they have the right to refuse it.

[Pithlet]

12. A company doesn't have to accept checks or credit cards.

It is a risk of business. Especially checks, since it's usually the credit card that eats the loss. I do agree that they have the right, but the key is "within reason" Does finger printing fall in that category? I honestly don't know. I guess not, since it seems that it is more common than I realized. I haven't been in the business in years.

[Bake]

28. NO! It is governed by their contract with the card company!!

Most credit card companies don't even allow the retailer to ask for a driver's license ID.

If they demand a fingerprint, my guess is they are violating their contract with MC/Visa. I would complain to the card company.

Bake

[tx_dem41]

30. If that's true....you should complain. Quite frankly, I want the

store to at least ask for some form of ID. The thought that someone could get hold of my card, and not have to produce ID is terrifying to me. If my CC company has such a policy, I would strongly consider changing cards.

[Pithlet]

41. You won't be held liable for the charges.

Unless you don't want charges filed against the person that stole your card. A lot of times a credit card is stolen by a family member. Often the card holder would beg us not to press charges against their son/daughter/mother/father that stole their card and used it. When they found out that they would be held liable for the charges, they sometimes changed their minds. In other words, you won't be held liable even if it was your own mom that stole the card, if you agree to let the CC company press charges against her. If a stranger did it, you certainly won't care and will probably want them to press charges. This has pretty much been SOP for CC companies for awhile. I'd be surprised if you found a CC company that required the retailers to ask for I.D. Usually, it's just for the names and signatures the receipt and back of the card to match.

Again, things may have changed since I was in the business, but I would be surprised if they would be THAT different. Maybe someone who's still in it can clear that up.

Edited for mistake.

[tx_dem41]

42. I appreciate your informed answer. I still don't want to go thru the

hassle of dealing with the situation. I look at them asking for my ID as a protection that benefits me.

[Pithlet]

43. Not to be a pain.

:) But, if your card is stolen, it's going to be a hassle for you whether they ask for ID at point of sale or not. It really doesn't benefit you for them to ask for ID. It benefits them. There's nothing wrong with you being concerned about that. I just want you to know that you don't HAVE to be :)

Really, I wouldn't squawk about being asked for I.D. I'm really rather surprised that they never have. With all of the money and effort they spend on fraud protection, it doesn't make sense. I just draw the line at finger prints.

[rainbow4321]

44. News Station Steals ID To Expose Problem

http://www.nbc5i.com/identitytheft/4161725/detail.html

Maybe instead of fingerprinting, retailers need to take a look at this news report and get their workers to LOOK at one's DL ID and signature on the receipt/CC.


DALLAS -- It is estimated that check and credit card fraud costs banks more then $1 billion annually, but despite that number, an NBC 5 investigation uncovered how some retailers make it easy for crooks to profit from stolen names.

With our undercover cameras rolling, Patterson went on a brief buying spree at Walgreens. She was bold enough to leave a clue that the station was up to no good, but our hint didn’t register at the register.

“If they had even looked at the receipt a little bit, they would have realized something was going on here. This says, 'Ima Fake,’” Patterson said.

Our next stop was Albertsons where the clerk once again didn't bat an eye during checkout -- even though Patterson signed the receipt "Governor Rick Perry." In fact, at every store NBC 5 visited, Patterson easily rang up a bill on Scrugg's credit card -- even at a record shop, where she signed the receipt “Look Closer.”

[kohodog]

11. Do they know how much business they are losing?

I would walk away and never come back. It's probably available online. My fingerprint and SS # are out of bounds for any store.

[MissB]

27. Exactly

I'd shop with my feet in that case. There is no way I'd give my fingerprints to purchase anything. No. Way.

[Johonny]

24. Highly effective?

They add the program's been "highly successful" in the two years they've used it nationwide as a "psychological deterrent." Friedman's also says


I would define effective as in we had X rate of illegal purchases before the policy and y rate after. I sounds to me like the Homeland security department which doesn't know how likely it is to have a terror attack but claims the lack of them means it's working. I smell a BS policy geared towards pushing around the consumer... and yes I'd walk out and get the watch somewhere else. Personally I bought my last watch on the internet from Germany. Screw Americans freeper donating stores.

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[Pithlet]

36. And you don't have to leave a finger print!

n/t

[KansDem]

37. A couple of years ago, I tried to cash my payroll check at the bank...

...my employer has it's account.

I usually took my check to my bank near my home, but this day I needed the cash on the way home from work, so I took my paycheck to the bank where my employer has its account. This would save me time since the bank was just a few blocks from where I worked.

When I presented by paycheck, I was told since I didn't have an account with them, I'd have to be fingerprinted. I said, "Why? This is a check for money due me by one of your clients. Why am I the one suspected of criminal wrongdoing?" I was told it was the policy of the bank since I didn't have an account with them. I never did understand why the bank would suspect someone of forging a paycheck drawn on one of its accounts. I didn't make sense...

I refused to complete the transaction and never went back...

[WillowTree]

46. Personally, I'm all for it.

With identity theft as rampant as it's becoming these days, I'm happy for anything that will discourage someone from trying to use one of my credit cards without my permission or, worse yet, getting and using a whole new card with a high limit without my knowledge and using that.

I would think that if more places did this, it would discourage a lot of stolen identity/credit card useage if the scammer had to leave his/her prints to use the ill-gotten cards. Let's be real here, most of the jerks doing this stuff are gonna have records and aren't going to want to use stolen cards if they have to leave their prints. Meanwhile, MINE aren't on file anywhere unless they were taken while I was under anesthesia and, even if they were, I have nothing to hide. So when they ask me for a thumbprint, it's just fine by me. It's as much for my protection as anyone else's.

[maveric]

47. Our new time clock, at work, is a thumbprint scanner.

I hate it!