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Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 08:39 PM
Original message
Question about Rafik Hariri in Lebanon
What do DU's think is the probability that our CIA offed Hariri the other day?
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. see here
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Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks
I was just thinking about this as I watched the news tonight. Seems to be causing destabilization of the region, which is a good prelude to war.

Plus, they had a quick film clip of a Lebanese guy pleading for George Bush to come and remove Syria's control of Lebanon. Just all looked a little too convenient to me.

But it's just a guess.
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. agree completely
almost seems like a pnac wet dream...

it's just all too coincidental.

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oppositionmember Donating Member (147 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Most likely Syrians...
essentially saying to Americans, you reduce Iraq to rubble and threaten us, we'll turn Lebanon back into rubble again - we know how to do it and we will. More law of unintended consequences than Bush Administration planning. Unlike the Syrians and the Iranians the Bush crowd is incapable of thinking two moves ahead.
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Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. we'll turn Lebanon back into rubble again
What is in it for the Syrians to do such to Lebanon?
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chlamor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. A Few Thoughts on the Hariri Murder
I posted this on another thread of similar topic and thought it might be relevant here.
This smacks of the traditional counterinsurgency tactic known as 'strategy of tension'. I do not believe the operation carried out as meticulously and powerfully as it was could have possibly been done by any group other than an "intelligence" outfit from some nation. The jury is still out but let us consider a few things, here is what Sam Hamod writes and the link to the entire article:
"We must do as they do in other criminal cases, look at who had the most to gain from the assassination of Prime Minister Harriri. The Lebanese had a lot to lose, as did the Syrians (he was close to Bashir Al Assad, the leader of Syria), as did the other Arab countries in the region who saw him as a strong leader and a stabilizing force in Lebanese politics. On the other hand, Israel has wanted chaos in Lebanon, as has America, and both countries have been agitating to get Hezbollah outlawed and both America and Israel have wanted the Lebanese to oust Syria. In both cases, the Lebanese government has said, “NO,” that Hezbollah is a respected part of Lebanese life and that Syria is there to protect Lebanon from Israeli aggression. Harriri’s killing, like so many of those in Iraq, is the work of either the Israeli dark ops or American mercenaries who have been hired out to kill people who are progressive in the Arab and Muslim worlds. That is why in Lebanon today, people know that it was not some dissident “Islamist group” (that no one has heard of, nor does anyone believe actually exists) who allegedly took credit for the deed, and in Iraq, where the religious leaders among the Sunni and Shi’a are telling their people not to revenge themselves on one another, because they know the killings are professional jobs being done by people from outside Iraq, namely, Israel and America. The parallels are evident to experts, but these experts will not be allowed on American media. But, Professor Rime Allaf, of the Royal Institute in England is correct, this was the work of an intelligence agency—and we damn well know who the only two would be—because they are the only two to gain by this deed, Israel or America."
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8060.ht...
And here is an excerpt from an article written in 2003 by Chris Floyd of The Moscow Times on the role of Lebanon:
A few months before PNAC's prophetic 2000 report, an allied group with an overlapping membership published a similar document outlining steps to be taken against Syria --first "tightening the screws" with denunciations and economic sanctions, then escalating to military action, as Jim Lobe of Inter-Press Agency reports. The architects of this document included Elliot Abrams, the convicted perjurer now running Bush's Middle East policy; Douglas Feith, one of Rumsfeld.s top aides; Paula Dobriansky, undersecretary to Colin Powell, and influential Pentagon advisors such as David Wurmser, Michael Leeden and everyone's sweetheart, Richard "Influence-Peddler" Perle.

Here, the proto-Bushist group demands that six "rogue nations" -- Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya and Sudan --  "turn over their governments to the United States" on pain of massive military response. The United States will then "occupy these territories until proper governments" -- ones that allow "long-term access" to major military bases, no doubt -- "can be established." And just how massive should that threatened US military response be? The USCFL is, as always, admirably -- and brutally --- forthright:


"America must set a clear example-identical to that of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If you tread on me, I will wipe you off the face of the earth." Link to the article at:
/www.globalresearch.ca/articles/FLO502A.html

And lastly a summary of article entitled:
"The Syrian MIG Planes Downed by Israel, the Assassination of Hariri, and All-out War" ,

Columnist Ibrahim Karagul suggests links between the assassination of Former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri and the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon, the recent defeat of the pro-Syrian Lebanese government, and "the plan to fuel divisive sentiments in Lebanon. " He claims that the killing of Hariri might touch off a civil war in Lebanon and that rather than being independent developments, the division of Iraq, the growing tension in Syrian-Lebanese relations, the Israeli preparations to "wage war" on HAMAS and Hezbollah, the accession to power of Mahmoud Abbas in "Palestine" and the US plan to hit strategic targets in Iran are all interrelated parts of the US-Israeli plan detailed in the policy paper entitled "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm."
www.globalresearch.ca/articles/SHA502A.html

These are very reliable sources but we certainly must continue investigating and place it in context with the picture of what is transpiring in the Middle East. My personal view is that numerous tactics are being used to 'Balkanize' and destabilize the region to facilitate the entry of Western capital.
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Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Thanks for the information and links
My take on the event is much the same, my gut instincts are telling me that this just looks to clean, and of course the question of who has the most to gain is self-evident. Combined with many of the PNAC documents, which talk about advantages associated with destabilizing the M.E. raises serious questions.

Unfortunately my knowledge of Lebanon is limited, as I have always seen them as not being a major player in the M.E., which puts me at a disadvantage in the current context of events.

Again, thanks for the info and I will spend some time working through it.

FFC
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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. For more info on PNAC and neocon interest in Syria look here
this is a thread I started in the new PNAC and neocon agenda group.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=307x62


much more work to be done, please contibute if PNAC/ and neocons piss you off as well.
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Freedom_from_Chains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-16-05 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks
I will, as I am not overly enthused about the idealogs that is currently in charge of our foreign policy.
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