Goddamn right wing nut job school principal

[Seeker30]

Calls me up today and informs me that my son who is in kindergarten violated school district policy by trying to kiss a girl in his class. She claimed that this was considered sexual harassment and he is now considered a sexual predator! A fucking kindergartner! She told me if it happens again she will file charges with the police. All from a simple peck on the cheek.

I don't know what the hell this country is coming to but I am seriously considering getting the hell out.

[murielm99]

1. Get a lawyer. Get him to go with you to see a copy of

school district policy.

I know they have rules against that here. But they just make the kids stay in for recess. If it is excessive, they call the parents.

That just makes no sense.

[Pert_UK]

2. "Hello....This is your child's school principal......

I'm so fucking useless at my job that I can't handle it when kids fool around. I am unable to discipline or control the children in my care, and cannot communicate with parents on the simplest of behavioural topics without threatening to involve the police. Moreover, I am so stupid that I don't realise that a kindergarten child couldn't possibly be charged with a crime. Also, I have nothing better to do with my time than write these threatening letters....."

"Dear School Principal

Perhaps you might like to consider an alternative career you incompetant and offensive twat. Next time one of your kids pushes another child in the playground I suggest you call the police and try to have them charged with assault, but please call me first so I can be there and watch as the police laugh at your sorry ass."

Sorry you're having to put up with this.....there isn't more to the story is there? It just sounds like such an overreaction.

[Seeker30]

4. No, thats the whole story

Before she mentioned the sexual harassment crap I said 'well at least he's not trying to kiss boys', she didnt like that to well. This woman really is nuts. My neighbor homeschools her kid because of this principal.

[Wilms]

3. Was it a Valentine's Day kiss? n/t

[Tux]

5. If it is, that is evil.

A little kid a sexual predator? Please. get a lawyer, check policy, sue like hell if possible.

[driver8]

6. A sexual predator??

That is freakin' ridiculous. This woman has the common sense of a box of rocks.

This country is fucked.

[Jamastiene]

7. "You need to keep that little

sex fiend of yours away from all the pretty girls or you'll be held up as an example of what a bad parent is."
Or at least that's what it sounds like this asshole is saying.
Sounds like a typical knee jerk overreaction. I thought that was what most school principals were like. I wouldn't worry about it. If the worst thing your kid did was kiss a girl, then you should be a proud parent. I'd rather see a kid kissing another kid than some of the things that go on. I bet that principal's kid is a holy terror. They usually are.

[Spinzonner]

8. Smile nicely and tell her

that if she wants to look like an absolute fool in the newspaper and on the nightly news (and maybe the national news) to bring it on.

[Tsiyu]

47. Oh yeah

Write a letter to the local paper. Ask other members of the community if they remember being little kids and stealing kisses. Make this fucktard look like the sexually repressed, mentally ill freak she is.

[youthere]

62. Good Answer! eom

[dsc]

9. Your school might have a zero tolerence policy about this

If it does then you need to go to the school board not your principal.

[salin]

10. Even if it does... go to the school board

labeling a five year old - for a kiss on the cheek - as a "sexual predator" is very over the top. Zero tolerance would simply mean having some kind of consequence for an incident, regardless of circumstance - a talk with a parent about the school culture and asking the parent to talk with the child about not trying to kiss other students would seem appropriate. But labeling the child, and warning that the principal will go to the police if it occurs a second time is way, way over the top - and the school board should be aware of this situation.

Can you say lawsuit (defamation?) waiting to happen?

[BiggJawn]

16. That's not what "Zero Tolerance" means.

Going to the Police, and destroying a 5-year-old by labeling him a "Sexual Predator" is exactly what "Zero Tolerance" is all about. Same thing that gets high school kids a criminal record as a "weapons offender" for have a nail file in their purse, or a steak knife in the bed of their truck.

[Tsiyu]

48. You are so right.

One of my son's friends had two pot plants and a few pipes confiscated by the police. They disassembled the pipes and spread them out on a sheet to look like some arsenal, then claimed the value of the pot was close to the current national deficit.

Some people love drama, love accusation, love scarring and labeling others for life.

[salin]

53. Yes, and no...

When the policies first came into effect, the intent was along the lines of mandatory sentencing as a mandate in courts - to take the "subjectivity" out of punishments for actions, while a) making political points ala "tough on crime" and b) making it easier for school admin who could blame the rules (not my fault that the punishment is x or y... it is set by the rules). That is, the public rationale is palatable to the public (eg taking the subjectivity out) - but the reasons for doing it is more to serve the schools needs (rather than the students.) The result is some really bizzare applications of rules enforcement - which include the ridiculous and completely predictable situations to which you refer.

Hence calling the school upon the absurdity/ridiculousness of the application (tagging a five year old as a sex offender) is the best way to get the rules to be changed. No school REALLY wants that publicity - and at the board level, though not always at the school level, there is an attention to bad PR.

[BiggJawn]

68. And we've seen what a succes "Mandatory Sentencing" has been...

...haven't we?

BTW, maybe it's lack of coffee or something, but I had to read and re-read your first paragraph to make sense out of it. Do you write manuals for the federal Government, by any chance?

[liberalhistorian]

64. Newsflash:

Five year olds CANNOT be labeled a "sexual predator", they just can't. Any principal who would even try would be laughed right out of the police and prosecutor's offices. And I don't think the police would take too kindly to being dragged to a school for stupid shit like this. They have much better things to do.

So, let her call the police and prosecutor and be laughed right out of her job. Because that's what would happen. At least I hope to God it would happen, although in this day and age, when kids are suspended or expelled for bringing cough medicine or THEIR OWN needed medicine (asthma inhalers, etc.) to school, who the hell knows.

[GiovanniC]

11. Pray That They File Those Charges

If the police do not laugh this principal out of town, then I am sure the media would have a field day with such a thing. Your principal's name may become synonymous with "moron" all across this great nation of ours.

[left is right]

12. Slightly off topic

Remember all those "Brave New World" type novels that depict the future as somekind of gray, joyless place without sex and what procreation taking place is done via testtubes? Do you suppose that those societies got there by punishing small kids for harmless little kisses?

[oldfogey]

13. I fail to see

how you conclude that a principal with zero tolerance for harassment is a "right wing nut job" because of this. This kind of labeling alienates us from the right and tends to make them ignore us. Bad practice IMO and it won't help us in 08.

She is going too far and hopefully you'll leave the name calling out of it should this receive any sort of public attention.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oldfogey]

21. Fine, I apologize for making an effort.

I'm new here and I'm sorry you see the need to attack my opinion. I had friends who were right wing. I lost them over this kind of stuff because I got sloppy in front of them and called someone an "#$%&*%$ right winger" because they cut me off and had a bush sticker. I had made some progress in getting them to see all of bush's obvious faults but after that they distanced themselves from me. If this got public attention and they aired the thread starter saying such insults I'm sure it would go over well in his area.

You think people will listen when you use their affiliation as an insult? You catch more flies with honey.

[BiggJawn]

34. Oh, I'm SO sorry!

Let me give you the same advice somebody else gave me when I was new here.

Grow a thick hide!

I don't give a rat's ass if the RW "listens" to us. For your information, I don't believe in the failed attempts to move the DNC to a "more Centrist" position like McAuliffe tried to do for the last 8 years. Always felt silly trying to sing "Kumbaya".

[DemonFighterLives]

18. I've got to admit

She sounded pretty whacky. Kids in kindergarten need to have a chance to learn to socialize with larger groups. Well when I was little we didn't have all the preparatory schooling like headstart etc that the kids have now. We came fresh off the farm and out of the town and had to learn to get along. No one was ever called a predator that I am aware of.
I did learn at my 20th class reunion that one girl was scared of me because I was a big boy. :D We all laughed healthfully.

[July]

26. If it were real harrassment, she wouldn't be a RW nutjob.

Nobody here is in favor of harrassment.

Calling a kindergartner a sexual predator for a kiss is ridiculous.

Discouraging kisses -- even welcome ones -- in school should be a no-brainer for any halfway decent teacher or adminstrator. "Zero tolerance" is an excuse for them to shut their brains off and act like wardens instead of educators.

[oldfogey]

27. I think you failed to understand my point.

I don't care if you all think "my theory is debunked", I know that there are repubs out there who care what we think of them and insulting them is like asking them to turn away. I already agreed the lady is a little wacko for pursuing the matter as she has.

[July]

30. I got it. I addressed a different part of your post.

And I know a lot of Republicans. They're the ones insulting us -- believe me, I have had people I've known and loved all my life call me a liar and a traitor, or tell me that they don't believe FACTS that I mention to them. I've never done the same to them, and keep trying to engage them and tell them that I'm very happy with my liberal values.

I've reached the point now that I DO NOT CARE what Republicans, good or bad, feel. They are harming this country. I also don't believe that very many of them "care what we think of them." If they did, they would be able to keep a civil tongue in their heads. They have already turned away from us.

[oldfogey]

31. Some out there have not made up their minds yet.

Don't lose faith or hope that they can be swayed if we at least appear respectful to that group.

[July]

32. As I was just saying, I have given up on them.

I have lost hope of swaying them, after several years of trying.

I no longer have any intention of worrying about the opinions of people who are not respectful of me. They are the ones who ought to try to appear respectful.

And if there are people out there who haven't made up their minds yet, WHAT are they waiting for? We've had 2 presidential elections during which they could have sorted out the facts. They don't want to.

[truebrit71]

37. Why in the world should we be respectful to a group that has labelled Dems

..as "terrorist-sympathizers" and "America-bashers"...

FUCK THE REPUBLICANS AND EVERYTHING THEY STAND FOR

GET IT?

[newyawker99]

36. Hi oldfogey!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[oldfogey]

40. Thanks.

Considering what I've seen here today I think I'm losing faith in our party's supporters and think it may be best if I stay away. I tried to come here during the election, in a time of need, and was not allowed to join. I think it was a sign.

[immoderate]

43. I'll give you this...

Not all morons are right wingers. And so far I haven't heard anything about this principal that's RW. She could even be a liberal for all I know. She may just be following orders, hoping the school board will eventually catch the heat.

I don't know if it's your point exactly, but I don't believe in calling her names she hasn't earned, and it wouldn't be my first approach anyway.

Welcome to DU!:hi:

--IMM

[Sterling]

55. I kind of sound like a cry baby.

Sorry but it is true. If you are thin skinned this place will not work out for you. I would not waste your time.

[oldfogey]

56. Not thin skinned,

just not looking to be the cause of trouble. Trust me, my feelings are far from hurt. You've responded to more than one of my replies in this manner. Is it a form of persecution that is popular here? Ignore me if you dislike my posts.

[Sterling]

61. "Is it a form of persecution that is popular here?"

Oh lord. :eyes:

[oldfogey]

65. At first

I was turned away from this site because it was not accepting new members. Now you have had to have your say regarding my posts. Thankfully, not all whom I have encountered here today are so unkind to newcomers.

[Sterling]

70. Don't worry you wont be new forever.

I think you will find if you stay for a while you will find this place is not so bad. It's a good thing that you are challenged to think and defend your position here. Welcome to DU.

[Tsiyu]

49. Yes, if she called you a sexual predator

because you kissed someone on the cheek would it be okay with you?

The OP probably knows this principal and her politics well. Why do you discredit her knowledge?

Rightwing nutjobs need to be called what they are. WE are a reality-based populace here, oldfogey. We don't make nice and lie about things so we don't alienate others. They are already alienated and think we're all going to hell. Falwell says he wouldn't give a thimbleful of water to a liberal ( cuz that's what Jesus would do).

We don't have to be nice any more. Trying to understand these freaks has gotten us nowhere. Pure condemnation is the only way to go.

[oldfogey]

51. It would not

be ok with me and if any of my children had ever been accused of it I would have made sure they knew it was wrong whether or not they had been guilty of it. At 5 they will not understand but I would have talked with them and told them it wasn't acceptable to be doing that in a classroom.

[atommom]

14. Yikes. My kindergartener just passed his first love note to a girl

in his class. Hope there's not a zero tolerance policy for that too. :eyes:

[seabeyond]

15. my boy was kissed by a girl in preschool, is she a sexual

preditor, or is it just a boy that can sexually harrass. he hated it was so mad she did it.

[DemonFighterLives]

19. Tramp

Kidding! :P
Male and female ho's are in. See Jeff Gannon.

[ICantBelieve]

20. Definitely go to the school board

This lunatic should not be allowed to be around children. Reminds me of Professor Umbridge in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.

[seabeyond]

23. i would go to principle first and acknowledge

teaching child to keep lips to himself, but if ever the word sexual preditor is used, will go after her ass til it is fired and raise such a stink with all the parents

unfortunately there are so many parents that go along with protecting children to such a point of extreme now a days and do little self thinking, the support may not be there

i would back you

on edit, tell son to keep lips to himself

[Mikimouse]

69. Too bad we don't have Centaurs around when we need them...

:evilgrin:

[mwb970]

22. Anyone remember...

The schoolroom kissing scene in "Annie Hall"?

[shesemsmom]

24. I thought all little kids kissed each other

when they were not fighting. JEZZZ. I'd call my attorney on that one. I wouldn't have hesitated to walk to the phone and call him up. That principle needs to have her head examined. If she ever has to deal with a real problem it will be bad!!!!!!

[sendero]

25. Ok...

... I agree this is absurd.. BUT.

You would not believe the legal constraints that schools operate under. I have a step son, 12 years old - who has developmental issues. The fact that he is black (in a mostly white school) probably didn't help. He is a good kid and never intended to do anything "wrong".

A girl in his class was standing on a chair and he touched her butt. As far as I can tell, it was not "sexual" touching, i.e. he did not pinch her or anything like that. I believe that there were a couple other similar incidents tho.

But we got called down to meet with the principal. The parent of the little girl had complained and they had to take some sort of measures.

The principal and (expecially) the vice-principal were very supportive, they know our son and they know he is a good kid. But, they said if there were more of these incidents and a parent complained, it would be out of their hands. I have nothing but respect for both of them, they have worked with us through several issues with our son. But there are policies and procedures and they only have so much say once a parent gets involved.

Of course, this principal is a fool if she thinks the police care one bit about this. But the school can and will take steps over "sexual harassment" issues, and it is quite possible that the morons who wrote the policies did not even put an age stipulation in them.

[July]

28. May I give you some advice?

I've seen "zero tolerance" used in a foolish fashion against several older kids, great kids who, like your son, weren't what the school was calling them. This kind of thing is happening all over (the kids I know live in 3 different states).

If you want your son to stay in this school district, START NOW sticking up for him whenever this kind of lunacy rears its head. Schools have a lot of power over your kid, and if you let them, they will treat YOU, too, like one of the students. And most of us go along with them, giving them more respect than they're due (teachers, I'm on your side, as long as you're a good teacher like my parents were). Either you get the administrator to back down or prepare for more of the same.

Your other choice is to take your son out of that school. Unfortunately, "zero tolerance" can get anyone -- the girl taking some over-the-counter medication for her menstrual cramps, the kid with a long key chain, the boy who writes his favorite song's lyrics (which include sex or violence) on a school paper, the kid who's asked to write a "journal" and reveals anything out of the mainstream, and EVEN the kindergartner who kisses another child. As far as I'm concerned, it's a world gone mad.

I hope you will fight the principal's putting an ugly label on your dear child. It's just wrong.

[seabeyond]

35. most of us go along with them

i agree with you. i would like to see the parents take back their inherit power that so many have unwisely handed over for many different reasons. rule in our house, who is the boss. i am. not your teacher principle cop or government. you are my job, not someone else's. and i approach school and teacher and principle in exactly that manner. i am not unreasonable, i am appreciative of all teachers give my kids, and i have not had one challenge. but i would absolutely make them take back the sexual preditor language

[sendero]

29. And one more point..

... while this principal might well be a right wing nut job, the idea that any unwanted touching between a male and a female is "sexual harassment" (with no distinction made for age or any other circumstance) is a decidedly liberal idea, this did not come from the right.

[Tsiyu]

50. Um, Southern Baptists allow NO DANCING

Was that a liberal plan?

* want abstinence education to replace actual fact-teaching on contraceptives and safe sex. Is that liberal?

i could go on.....

[ultraist]

57. NOT FOR A FIVE YEAR OLD!!!

Calling a five year a sexual predator for giving a peck on the cheek is highly inappropriate. That is extremely conservative type thinking. Children are learning appropriate boundaries and liberals do not have such a punitive view of children, nor do they believe children should be tried as adults.

I would file a complaint about that remark, demand it be retracted and be certain it is NOT in his file. You have a right to have a FULL copy of his file.

Then, file the complaint at the next level. You have to check with your school board on the grievance procedures, it varies from county to county.

When my daughter was in kindergarten, a little boy had a big crush on her, followed her around, sat by her, when he could, tried to hold her hand and kiss her. We thought it was pretty funny and it provided an opportunity for us to teach our daughter, appropriate ways to set boundaries for that type of situation and the teacher worked with the little boy on how to respect boundaries. It was a learning experience for both kids.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v3.0
==================



This week is our first quarter 2005 fund drive. Democratic
Underground is a completely independent website. We depend almost entirely
on donations from our members to cover our costs. Thank you so much for
your support.

[tcoursen]

38. What about the girl?

You haven't mentioned how the girl reacted. Was she real upset? Did she go home and tell her parents that it really bothered her?

How would you feel if you child came home from school all upset because of an incident like this? What you see as no big deal may very well be a big deal to the other set of parents.

I think the teachers and principals are in a no win situation. If they let it go what happens if the girl is real upset and ends up having problems and her parents sue the school? They are most likely just covering their ass, and can you blame them for that?

[oldfogey]

42. It doesn't seem as though

anyone here cares about anyone but their own, in this case the thread starter and his child. For all we know his kid persisted and the girl was embarassed about it but at that age they need to be taught right from wrong, not labeled.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

60. Big deal

Kids and adults both get embarrassed scads of times during their lives. Teaching a little boy to keeps his lips off others is perfectly acceptable. And it's perfectly acceptable to ask someone to teach their little boy to keep lips, hands etc to themselves. But to call a child a sexual predator and threaten police intervention is wrong wrong wrong. And you hit the nail right on the head. Well, the little girls parents may come back an sue the school. Well my my my sue the school over a 5 year old kiss on the cheek eh? Political correctness in this country has run amok. Don't do this you are violating my rights. Don't do that, you may traumatize me and I will be forced to sue. Your 5 year old kissed my 5 year old in class. Now she is permanently scared for life because she was sexually harassed at age 5. BULLSHIT! A large portion of the people in this country makes me physically ill. And the people who cave in to the bullshit only to perpetuate the problem makes me even sicker. This country has gone stark raving mad. That kid is no more scarred than I am. And if she is, her issues, run much deeper than a peck on the cheek from a 5 year old. Harmless actions have become major issues in this country and it just gets more and more over the top. At what point is enough enough? Ever wonder why we have so many sex offenders at the elementary school age now but there didn't seem to be this problem say 10-20 years ago? It's because people have gone around the bend. And the rest of the population has gone right along with them.

end rant

note: I am perfectly aware that there ARE cases where there is a child gone wrong involved. But, in most cases, it's a case of something getting way overblown. WAKE UP AMERICA, we are ruining our children's childhood. Let them be kids damn it! They will be thrown into the ugly adult world soon enough.

[ultraist]

63. Didn't you say, you catch more bees with honey?

Some of your remarks, such as this one: "It doesn't seem as though anyone here cares about anyone but their own, in this case the thread starter and his child" isn't very sweet is it?

[oldfogey]

66. I am not trying

to make friends here. I am only seeing if there are people here I can get along with. I merely agreed with the fact that no one had looked at this from the other side. I never called anyone here a "left-wing nut job" or any other insult.

[Sterling]

72. "I am not trying to make friends here,"

"I am only seeing if there are people here I can get along with."

Well that explains a lot. With that attitude no wonder you can't find anyone to "get along with" here.

You get what you give as they say. And of course we all know respect must be earned.

[Sterling]

71. I would not care.

I remember being a kid and a stolen peck on the check is not something I will concern myself with when talking about little children.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

39. Wow!

I did the same thing in kindergarten.Don't think they called my parents though. Sems to me the teacher just said, "we don't do that in school" and being five, I promptly went on to other impulsive, childish behaviors. Of course when I went to school they could still spank you so I guess that tells you how things have changed............ :)

edited for spelling

[d_b]

41. please tell me you're joking.

[countingbluecars]

44. Something's not right here.

I have worked in the public school system for many years. Even with a zero tolerance policy for harassment, I find it hard to believe that labeling a young child as a sexual predator would ever be considered policy. I would definitely check with the school district if I were you.

[bleedingheart]

45. My husband used to tackle girls in the playground and kiss them

...he even remembers kissing one little girl's coat when he was in elementary school....and I can assure you that he grew up to be a respectable liberal ...not a sex predator...

[meganmonkey]

46. There was a boy like that in my kindergarten too

Maybe it was your hubby ;)

But this kid used to chase us all over the playground to kiss us. I remember it pretty vividly, and there was nothing sexual about it, he was just the only one who didn't believe in cooties, I guess.

[Cleita]

52. That 's insane. What will they do if the kid pulls down his pants?

I mean little kids do stuff like that and maybe it's an indication that they should see a counselor to get to the bottom of what is going on. I think these nutjob educators need to understand that little kids may do stuff that for adults could be harrassment, but to have a five-year-old arrested is pretty Draconian and stupid.

[ultraist]

59. LOL!

My neighbor's daughter got irritated with some little boy and pulled his pants down to embarrass him in the first grade. LOL!

The parents did get a call but it wasn't that big of a deal. She was NOT called a sexual predator.

Anyone who has spent any time in a kindergarten class knows this stuff goes on all of the time. By the end of the year, most of the kids understand the basic physical boundaries expected at school.

[msongs]

54. DEMAND a complaint IN WRITING>>>>>>>>>>>>>

tell that principal you want his/her comments in writing, and also get witness statements in writing (the teacher/other adults who were present).

In writing, dated and signed................

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[ultraist]

58. If the principal complies, whatever she writes will go in the kid's file

Those files follow kids throughout their entire school career. One nutcase teacher or principal can do some major damage.

[pstokely]

67. better call Sexual Harassment Panda

nt

[neweurope]

73. Your country is stark raving mad.

While you have become a threat to the whole world and while your own rights are being taken away you punish KISSES in KINDERGARTEN. Put handcuffs on four-year-olds for bringing scissors to school and the like.

Stark raving mad. What will these poor kids of yours do with their emotions (which always include "bad" emotions)? Ah yes, shoot up other kids their age when they join the Army at age 18 when all that pent up emotion will finally erupt?

Look at the world around you... people will be people, they are the same everywhere. How do you suppose kids in foreign countries are being brought up? Somehow over here it works without all this crap. And we raise respectable citizens. YOU weren't brought up like this and YOU are respectable citizens! Schools are supposed to be working with pedagogics and not with cops.

While trying to protect your children you do them no favour at all. Children who grow up like this must get damaged. Poor little kiddie souls.


-----------------------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!