Open conversation to freepers and other repubs - and to everybody, period.

[Deja Q]

We have our differences, but one thing is clear: The neocons' "reforms" on class-action suits and bankruptcy will affect you too.

And notice how the reforms openly target consumers and do nothing to prevent predatory, unscrupulous, incompetent, irresponsible, or outright dangerous acts by the corporations who NEED to be held accountable when THEY do wrong. America is more than just consumers who need to be kept in line, but many in power feel differently.

You can laugh at others now who may or may not suffer. But there will be a time when you'll be in the same position. Will those who you voted for help you then?

But when you need Vioxx or whatever and find out that the bastards who made it never bothered to test it properly and as a result, many have died under painful conditions (heart attacks and strokes are not painless), those who caused those people to suffer won't get the PUNISHMENT that is just due them.

And in our "culture of life", it's embarrassing to see how the same laws made by the folks screaming "we're a culture of life" are proving they are creating a culture of SUFFERING AND DEATH.

Please understand - all of you and all of us. We are ALL being played for like chumps by the degenerates in power. (D or R, the majority of politicians are NOT innocent of unethical conduct. In one form or another. And the few who genuinely are noble and worthy of having the job are never heard of, unless they speak against the "popular opinion". And they deserve the most attention. And applause. For being able to think for themselves.)

We can't change the world, but we've got to all wake up and end the animosity against each other and study those who tell us what to believe and how to behave. It's quite the dichotomy. And advocating toeing of the party line can only be said and accomplished by the dumbest of them all. And unfortunately, the person responsible for saying "You are either with us or against us" is one such person. His own actions over the last several years are utterly contradictary to his words.

And remember: The more we see what an 'ownership society' means, the more people will start to realize that 'it takes a village' isn't so naive as it sounds. The people might even realize that the latter statement is eminently more real on our planet than the former. For one thing, what's left to own if it's worthless? And at that point, we either become a village (proving our superiority to animals) - or live and hunt as individuals, proving we're no better than animals.



(edit: Subject Title)

[Emboldened Chimp]

1. Here, here.

[JimmyJazz]

2. Hey 'punkin! I was just thinking about you this morning realizing

I hadn't seen you in a while - I hope all is as well as can be expected! :hug:

[wryter2000]

3. IMHO

Wingnuts are the first to run to a lawyer when they've feel slighted, and they have such thin skins.

[flygal]

15. Yep - my repug in-laws are always bitching about this

and two years ago when fil broke his neck it wasn't half an hour later my mil said "we should sue". I remind her of this - but they don't get it. These RINO's have truly hurt America as a society. I wish they'd realize it.

[smurfygirl]

4. ownership society means

the banks own you.
You are a slave to the bank till you pay off that house, car, buisness, and boat. And when you can't pay because someone's bad policy's make it so people can't work then you are screwed because you can no longer file for protection under the courts. So you not only loose your buisness but your home, car, and boat and any equity you've built up. That's the American way. It's how they make you a slave while they reap in cuban cigar smoke that they all protest that no one should be able to buy because Fidel is such a commy. But the fact is that those rich men sitting up at the top don't care about America or any other country. They are their own country. they own our country, it's people are a slave to them. Capitalism - ain't it grand!

[Deja Q]

5. Spot-on.

:-(

It's disgusting, what they do. It'll really be funny when no media is necessary for those vermin to show their true colors, yet the public will still blindly believe in them.

As for me? Apathy. Anything else would be acknowledging that they have power.

[Armstead]

6. This sentence sums it up perfectly

>>>>We can't change the world, but we've got to all wake up and end the animosity against each other and study those who tell us what to believe and how to behave.<<<

That is the essence of it. They get the "right" and the "left" fighting each other as a distraction, meanwhile they're steaing the family silver and putting the screws on both sides.

It would make a lot of difference if conservatives could ever figure out that the people they are following have no interest in them unless they are in the country club.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beam Me Up]

8. Can we ever get beyond this "left" vs "right" "liberal" vs "conservative"

CRAP?

The ruling elites have conned us into believing it is an US vs THEM world. Whether it is Men against Women or Gays against Straights or Blacks against Whites or Christians against Jews or Muslims or what the hell ever--the bottom line is this: Those of us who work for a living get shafted by those who have the wealth to influence lawmakers and shape policies. Moreover, they control the flow of information in such a way that they perpetually deceive us into believing we have more power than we do. When they aren't doing THAT, they are distracting us with PRODUCTS--most of which do not add one iota to the QUALITY of our lives.

We have to envision a New America; this has to become the message of people of conscience. I don't care whether you are a Republican or a Democrat--BOTH THESE PARTIES HAVE BECOME CORRUPTED--beyond redemption, IMO. I would gladly vote for anyone who TRULY REPRESENTED MY INTERESTS against those of multi-national corporations and the top few percent who OWN them.

Having said that, I also have to add that if we can not guarantee that our votes are counted as intended, then the whole electoral process is compromised. JFK once said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable." We are not YET seeing the conditions for real revolution in this country--but we are far closer than we've ever been--and it is a crying shame.

[earth mom]

21. Extremely Well Said! Couldn't have said it better myself!

The left vs right thing is just a smokescreen so that we are all too blinded by our "perceived" differences to see how the corporations are screwing all of us royally.

[livinginphotographs]

9. My response.

I know that none of you agree, but again I hold up Europe's economy as a perfect example. They are well behind the US economically (per-capita GDP in Europe is $28,000 compared to $41,000 in the US, and that's excluding former eastern-bloc countries) Unemployment is higher in Europe.

How much money per year to you spend on health insurance, or does an average American spend on health insurance? I rest my case.


And as the failure of Europe to meet the economic goals of the Lisbon strategy shows, Europe is falling further and further behind the US economically.

Right, that's why the value of the dollar is dropping like my penis when I saw the Jeff Gannon pics.

[roseBudd]

10. You point to Germany as an example of an economy wronged...

what country would be an example of an economy unfettered by a social safety net? Brazil? India? Because I've heard really great things about poverty in those countries. Not.

You claim conservatism works, please give examples based in reality not supposition.

[Strelnikov_]

11. Since All Of Your Arguments Revolve Around The 'Wealth' Of Nations

I propose that you became a conservative due to greed.

By your definition, Communist China is the model nation. Look at that growth and wealth creation, woo-hoo. Workplace safety, environmental laws, just a drag on growth and wealth creation.

Germany's unemployment rate is high due to integration with the former eastern-bloc.

Oh, by the way, our unemployment rate is 10%+ also. We just have a corrupt political party in power that lies about it.

[Brewman_Jax]

12. Pure propaganda

anecdotal crap off of any RW talk show, nothing based on facts. Ex-liberal? Sure. :eyes:

[merh]

13. Just an FYI, your information is flawed

Our unemployment rate is much higher than what you list. Those than have used up all of their unemployment benefits are dropped from the roles. They are not reported in the percentages you site.

As far as class action suits, I hope you buy the retro Pinto that will be coming out soon.

[skids]

14. To me your views seem slightly warped.

I don't leap to the defense of every "liberal" policy. Some are pretty flawed. Usually these flaws result from an idealism that fails to take into account details in the interaction of the policy with other policies and realities. Some cases of failed liberal policy, however, are the result of sabotage by those opposed to the ideal of the policy, and that fact should never be overlooked. To boot, there are plenty of failures in conservative policy.

In this case though you are being quite slanted. In particular, per-capita GDP seems to me to be a rather strange criteria for a Christian to judge the value of an economic policy. What about poverty? What about quality of life? Infant mortality? Crime?

The GDP is not the end-all and be-all. You should know this as the correllary is true on the individual level -- your personal earnings and job productivity is not the primary indicator of the quality of your character, nor of your contribution to society.

Yes, Germany is currently in a slump. Lots of economies have slumps. I talk to a few Germans from time to time, though, and they seem pretty happy, except with the push to try to Americanize their economy. (Which, funnily, is coming from what are called "neoliberals" there.) They aren't about to starve, though, and barring interference by external interests, will eventually tweak their way back into the black.

And as we know, unemployment can be a very deceptive figure to compare between countries, given the huge disparity in the way it is reported, not to mention reductions in the earned wage not being reflected.

[Deja Q]

19. Sorry I missed the chance to read this...

but the other responses have me guessing what sort of rhetoric was originally said. O8)

[DistressedAmerican]

16. Attention Republicans!!!!!!!

Odey the Hypnotoad and DO NOT TRUST OUR FUTURE TO THE HANDS OF THE NEOCONS!

[Ian David]

17. Where do they think all the industrial accidents and corporate dumping is?

When was the last time a refinery destroyed a big blue city?

On the other hand, often does a train explode in a small red town?

Who is it that gets injured on the job when a vat of chemicals blows-up in their face, or a car falls off the assembly line?

I guess we city folks will just have to pay for our own carpal tunnel treatments when we hurt our wrists from sitting at a desk all day.

Who do they think ends up with the worst medical care systems?

We city folks have access to great hospitals.

So hey, I guess someone hasn't quite learned how to vote in their own best interest.

And the new law says that even if you CAN sue a company, you pretty much have to do it in whatever jurisdiction the company sees fit.

We here in the big blue cities have access to a great transportation infrastructure.

When they have to struggle to get their handicapped mama onto the bus for a three-hour ride to the train station so they can take her to Washington to sue the company that left her a vegetable, maybe they'll learn.

[Extend a Hand]

18. so repugs punish those that have legitimate complaints

IMO this is one of the most dangerous pieces of *evil* legislation
that this regime has passed.

Those with legitimate grievances will no longer be fairly compensated for their injuries.

look who was behind the majority of these "frivolous" lawsuits:
http://www.legalnewswatch.com/news_445.html

[Deja Q]

20. Great post and link! Also,

Welcome to DU! :toast: :party: