A 12 year old boy, verses psychiatrists and the drug company's.

[Lisabtrucking]

He didn't have a chance. I watched with horror, our system putting a 12 year old boy in prison for 30 years for killing his grandparents.

I'm not making any excuses, or maybe I am, for this boy, but as I see it the psychiatrist who prescribed him paxol, and zolof should be the one's sentenced too 30 years in prison.

Yes you read it right. I believe the psychiatrist who prescribed this boy mind altering drugs should be the one's in prison.

Talking with some experience with paxol, this drug is very bad. I was put on paxol for being depressed about my cancer. Well I came to my senses and realized I was being very normal for being depressed and only needed a person with a good ear to talk too.

When I stopped taking paxol, I literally felt electrical shocks in my brain. That is no bull. When I told the doctor, he said they are hearing that from some of their other patients. These doctors are using drugs on people not really knowing what the side affects are. I was 40 years old and let me tell you that drug is no drug to be doping kids up with because they are depressed or what ever. Zolof is no better. It just made me mad when I heard the father of the child say his son took paxol before the zolof. This boy needs help not prison. America is sure becoming a hard place to live.

[Sanity Claws]

1. 12 year old boy

The poor kid. How can someone hold a 12 year old to the same standard as an adult?

[idiosyncratic]

2. I agree with you. Have you read the book "Listening to Prozac"

These psychotropic drugs change brain chemistry and alter people's personalities.

What is wrong with juries these days? :cry:

[Lisabtrucking]

3. I know, if I ever get in trouble, I think my chances would be better

off with the judge. People are Kill happy.

[FreedomAngel82]

10. That's why

I'm against drugs like that and people taking them. There are always other ways to help your sadness using positive energy and influence.
My brother used to take medicine for ADD (or something like that) when he was younger. When he was about 10-12 he told my parents he didn't like how it made him feel. When he took the medicine he would be so different. From being a kid full of energy to very still. A total 180 degrees.

[idiosyncratic]

15. I hate to disagree with you but "positive energy" isn't going to

help an adult who is seriously, suicidally depressed.

These drugs play an important role in helping some people, but they should only be given to adults and they should be used in combination with cognitive therapy.

[ultraist]

4. I agree

I am opposed to trying children as adults. Anyone with a basic understanding of child development knows children do not possess the same intellectual abilities as do adults. This is SCIENTIFIC fact.

Add to that mix, a kid who was doped up on dangerous mood altering drugs that have not even been approved for use in children.

I hope those grandparents SUE the fuck out of that drug company and that shrink.

Those drugs are very powerful and SOMEONE FAILED that child and did not give him proper medical care.

They need to get a new attorney and appeal. Their expert witnesses were not very good.

[H2O Man]

8. "Those grandparents" are dead.

Medication defenses do not do very well in court. I'm not sure of the track record on appeals, but another doctor's "expert opinion" isn't grounds for an appeal. There would have to be an error in the trial. Disagreeing with the verdict doesn't count for much.

[walldude]

9. Not to be an ass or anything

but the Grandparents are dead. They aren't going to be suing anyone.
That said I have to agree with this, I have a 10 year old who is a little wound up. Not too much more than most ids but he is a handful. In second grade, after 2 days of school his teacher told me he needed Ritalin. In 3rd grade he was diagnosed with ADD. Well they tried 5 different drugs on him, each worse than the first. After a few months I stopped that drug bullshit altogether. He's still a handful but damn, aren't most kids? Later I found out that Pharmaceutical companies pay kickbacks to doctors and teachers for getting kids onto drugs. Most parents I have talked to have done the same as me, told the doctors and teachers to fuck off. This is probably why they are going to start mandatory testing of school children. The Pharmie companies aren't making enough money...

[stillcool]

5. This one has me all riled up!

He was prescribed the Paxil by a psych., as he threatened suicide and was hospitalized. He then moved in with Grandma & Grandpa for probably the umpteenth time in his long 12 yrs. The GP that Granny took him to prescribed him Zoloft, even though the shrink had him on Paxil. Major Mistake # 1. Major Mistake #2...Dad gives him a rifle...after..he has been commited, obviously suicidal, and has moved in with Granny. Who could possibly be surprised?

[H2O Man]

6. I agree that drugs

are way over-prescribed. I agree they have terrible side-effects. Causing someone to commit murder is not among them, however. The kid knew right from wrong: the fact that he tried to cover up what he did, and to blame someone else, is proof that he knew what he did was wrong.

Our legal system may need to reconsider how it treats 12-year olds. It may also need a "guilty, but mentally ill" judgement. But it doesn't need a "guilty, but let's blame anyone else" judgement. This kid had a serious history of behavioral problems, and for whatever reason was with his grandparents. Should he have been in a more structured environment? Yes. But that's not the doctor's call. His job is to evaluate, and usually to prescribe.

It's a shame.

[Lisabtrucking]

11. Have to partly disagree with you

Causing someone to commit murder is not among them, however. The kid knew right from wrong: the fact that he tried to cover up what he did, and to blame someone else, is proof that he knew what he did was wrong.

I have to disagree with you on this statement. Kids will try to cover up what they do wrong, no matter what it is. We had a case down here in Florida, of an 11 year old who killed a friend when he was playing wrestling. He tried to cover it up also, and he wasn't on mind altering drug's. I didn't want to see him go to jail either, I don't think he meant to kill her, but the jury sentenced him to prison also, this is just madness.

And how can you say for certain that the mind altering medicine he was taking didn't play a role in his behavior.

I do agree with you, it is a shame.

[H2O Man]

12. Yes, it played a role

Everything he ate, drank, watched, and listened to played a role. And I'm not joking .... a song may have made him feel angry, or a smell might have made him recall an upsetting incident in the past. Yet none of these changes his being in control of the planning and carrying out of the double-murder.

Regarding the other cases, they actually reinforce what I'm saying. If someone is experiencing a symptom or multiple symptoms of their mental illness that cause them to NOT know the difference between right and wrong -- a state of mental illness known as a severe psychosis -- they do not try to cover up their crimes ..... because they don't think that what they did was wrong.

I will add a most important point, which is that most mentally ill people do not commit crimes, much less violent crimes. In fact, the mentally ill are far, far more likely to be the victim of a crime -- including a violent crime -- than to commit one. Even people who are quite psychotic will have a sense of right and wrong that is rooted in their non-psychotic value system. There is no single group of people in America who are suffering more from the immoral and unjust actions of the Bush administration than the mentally ill.

[Ladyhawk]

13. It sounded like he had serious problems before he was put on meds.

I completely agree with everything you said, H2O Man. The psychiatrist cannot be blamed for this crime.

The fact is, anti-depressants are often prescribed to already-disturbed people. It's silly to blame suicides and homicides on a drug that is given to such people. These things happen because a person is disturbed. I would bet money that the link with anti-depressants is a red herring. Someone needs to do a double-blind study of disturbed persons who are and are not given psychotropic drugs to see if there is a difference in suicide / homicide / crime rates.

Also, you can't blame your actions on SSRIs. I've been on them most of my life and have yet to murder someone. I'm not homicidally disturbed, but I am suicidally disturbed and occasionally have suicidal thoughts. If I offed myself tomorrow, I couldn't blame the Lexapro. Even though SSRIs have not helped me, I don't think they've hurt me, either. Quite probably my depression is not linked to serotonin. It is probably linked to some other chemical process in the brain. My Strattera Rx did help at first (until the psychiatrist got sick and stopped upping my dosage) because it affects nor-ephinephrine. That (or dopamine levels) may be my problem.

What some of you don't seem to understand is that while these drugs are over-prescribed, they are sometimes necessary to restore chemical balance to the brain. In some cases it would be criminal for a psychiatrist not to prescribe them. I liken anti-depressants for depressives to insulin for diabetics. You wouldn't expect a diabetic to stop taking insulin. Anti-depressants do the same thing for the brain that insulin or pills do for the pancreas and glucose-absorption processes.

Psychiatrists only know what they know now and can only treat their patients based on what studies have been done. Granted, the process is imperfect and should definitely allow for testing of more "natural" agents. Unfortunately, naturally-occurring substances cannot be patented, so big pharmaceutical companies won't do studies based on natural substances. It's a damn shame.

If the human race survives, someday we'll all be free from mental illness, but until then we have to use the treatments that are available.

Needless to say, sending a 12-year-old boy to prison is a tragedy. He is disturbed. He had problems. He needs to be treated. But because he is dangerous, he also has to be kept away from society until his treatment is complete. In corporate America, he will not receive that treatment. :( Mental hospitals are hellholes described by some as worse than prison. I've never been to jail or prison, but I can vouch for the "hellhole-ness" of mental hospitals. No matter where this kid ends up, he's royally screwed and I feel sorry for him. :(

LH

[Swede]

7. In Canada the Young Offenders Act does not allow this sort of thing.

No one under 18 can be charged with an adult crime.

http://canada.justice.gc.ca/en/ps/yj/index.html

[pamela]

14. This story really upsets me.

I believe very strongly that children and adolescents should not be tried as adults. I was working as a counselor in a mental health facility about 10 years ago when I was assigned to counsel a client in our local jail. It turned out to be a 16 year old awaiting trial for a murder in which he was involved, but did not commit. He was being tried as an adult and was found guilty of felony murder and sentenced to life in prison. It was the hardest and most insane experience of my life. There were honestly times when I thought I was losing my mind because the circumstances surrounding the murder just did not add up to the conviction and sentence. During the pre-sentence investigation, the P&P guy doing the report came to talk to me and admitted that he was really upset by the whole thing, too. There were so many details which I can't get into that resulted in his conviction but were all things that were totally consistent with a person of his age. When you try an adolescent or child as an adult they are not being tried by a jury of their peers. I'm not saying that you should have a jury that consists of 16 year olds but at the very least an adolescent should be tried by a Juvenile Master or judge who has a strong background in Child and Adolescent Development.

As for Zoloft, I absolutely believe that all SSRI's can cause psychosis and homicidal behavior in some people. The sad thing is that all too often, when someone reports having these types of feelings to their Psychiatrist after taking the drug, they are just switched to another similiar drug or given an INCREASED dosage of the same drug. We are only just beginning to learn about the side effects from these drugs that have been hidden from us by the pharmaceutical companies. I hope his family sues the pants off the makers of Zoloft but it won't bring back this kid's grandparents or rectify the injustice of this verdict and sentence.

Sorry for the rant (and the lack of commas) but this subject really upsets me. Here is a link to a good website that is addressing these issues and fighting for this kid.

http://www.drugawareness.org/home.html

[Lisabtrucking]

16. Thank you for the website, didn't know anyone cared. thanks. n/t

[idiosyncratic]

17. Thank you for your reasoned, compassionate response.

I agree with you completely when you say

I absolutely believe that all SSRI's can cause psychosis and homicidal behavior in some people.

The key is "some people." Just because these drugs work for some doesn't mean they work for all people, or work without side effects.

These drugs can be life saving, but their use must be closely monitored.

Convicting this young man was a travesty.