I Own A Gun..... Does That Mean I'm Not a TRUE Progressive?

[ulTRAX]

I consider myself a Progressive.. pretty far to the Left of the Democratic Party. Like most here I detest the NRA. But I've owned a gun for some 25 years. On reflection I don't see my right based in the second amendment but the ninth: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." What a truly radical ideal... the basis for Griswold v Connecticut which legalized birth control. Radical Rightists like Scalia want to reinterpret the ninth to cover only what the Framers thought were legitimate rights.

My personal belief is that government may have the occasional legitimate need to limit rights, but unless it's done in a manner that protects the rights of responsible citizens... then it is an abuse of government power which even Progressives should oppose. That puts me at odds with the radical anti-gun crowd.

[derby378]

1. What kind of gun do you have?

Pistol? Hunting rifle? Shotgun? Assault rifle?

I support 'em all, mind you - just curious.

[ulTRAX]

7. just a pea-shooter......

The AR-7.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. It means you are a progressive with a gun.

I am all for people owning guns responsibly. I also feel reasonable regulations are not antithetical to any aspect of the constitution.

[solinvictus]

3. Nope.

I own one classified as an evil "assault weapon", two pistols, and a shotgun. I fear we may need them one day.

[applegrove]

4. If it is locked away so that nobody can steal it I'd say that is all that

matters.

[Jack_DeLeon]

24. I disagree with that.

The 2nd amendment makes no reference to how you keep or bear your arms.

In general I think its best to secure all your belongings to protect against theft or misuse, but I definately dont think people should have thier rights taken away from them because someone thinks they arent doing enough to do so.

Your rights arent there so you can lock them up.

[applegrove]

30. The constitution did nothing to stop slavery which was a travesty

and a torturous way for millions to continue living. The people who wrote your constitution were amazing and brilliant and brave. And they were wrong in a few cases.

One of the things that many small landholders, villages and cities didn't have was public funding for police officers. Militias were required for people to protect themselves from goons and murderers and to make sure their family’s hard won wealth was not stolen. Many things that went into the 'right to bear arms' are no longer applicable.

Murder is not something your father will protect you from - if anyone will. The policing system around you will protect you from that - but only if they can actually be better armed than the criminals. As the police if they would not wish for some adjustments to the gun laws ... so that they would be updated. The facts are that when we didn't have organized societies we spent most hours in the day doing whatever you were told so not to arrouse any interest, so not to volunteer yourself as a sacrifice to the gods (that goes way back). And technology was bad so wealth for the 'big cheeses' often involved stealing from the people over the hill. But we don't do that anymore.

Also, for many farming poor, you could spend 20 years growing a feeding your farm animals only to have some nuts ride in and steal them one night. And there just went 20 year of you and your family’s wealth and you are back to starving and eating tree roots for a decade - if you were so lucky to survive. And if they had a gun at that point, they may have saved their wealth from being stolen. Or - a single gun would have given them enough meat to make it through till the next spring with healthy kids. But the need is no longer there to protect your wealth - insurance will cover robbery.

Nobody says you cannot hunt. I live in Canada and every fall, wherever I am, lots of middle class people go out and get meat for the winter (yes these are city people). And then they put their guns away.


Things have changed. Guns were not invented until a couple of hundred years ago. Kids today do not need to be spending money on guns. They need to be spending money on computers. And who is going to explain that to the corporation that is the gun corporations if you don't? Some rich folk come up with nice sentiments on their own. Look at Bill Gates who got rich all ove the world so he is spending his billion solving problems all over the world. Look at the dynamite family. They invented something, got rich, and realized it was killing a few people in wars and such. And said okay lets do something else: and the Nobel Prize was born.

Ideas, tools, humans, stories, needs, countries evolve. Gun corporations do not.

[Jack_DeLeon]

35. riiight...

[davepc]

5. A progressive willing to fight for whats right, with a gun if necessary

is an American tradition. Don't always win, but dosent mean the fight wasent worth it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre

[Kitka]

6. I hope not. I'm actually one of the "radical anti-gun crowd"...

and I own a gun LOL. I own a gun that was owned by my great grandfather, and it is stored in pieces in my attic.

[xray s]

8. I think law abiders should be able to possess guns

I also think felons should not be able to possess guns. And I think you need some sort of effective licencing system to sort out the law breakers from the honest folks.

[ulTRAX]

11. maybe we also need......

Maybe we also need some licensing protocol to protect citizens who responsibly use recreational drugs.

[xray s]

14. In a way we do

If you use recreational drugs and then get behind the wheel and drive down the road intoxicated and get stopped, you will lose your licence to drive.

The licence protects the public from the lawbreakers. If no one ever broke the law you wouldn't need a licence.

[ulTRAX]

42. you don't understand

In your scenario the recreational drug user is still breaking the law even if s/he uses drugs responsibly. I'm talking about a program to protect the drug use rights of responsible adults though licensing. I would expect it to have very high penalties for DUI of drugs.

[xray s]

49. I don't know how that would work

You don't need a license to drink alcohol, why should you need a license to take recreational drugs. Just legalize them. Use the license concept to protect the public when a drug user commits a dangerous act while intoxicated, like revoking their driver license if they drive high or revoking their gun license if they use a gun recklessly while high.

I think we need to realize prohibition just doesn't work, and just makes a bunch of drug dealers, crooked cops, crooked politicians and crooked bankers rich. Come to think of it, that's while they will never be legalized.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

9. Geeze, I hope not.

I own several. They are all equipped with trigger locks and in a locked case. :)

[ultraist]

10. I don't think all progressives are anti-gun, they are pro gun safety

[uppityperson]

12. I agree with your succinct point. n/t

[Broca]

15. You can own a gun and be a liberal

unless you are sleeping with the darn thing, then you are just a nut.

[newyawker99]

39. Hi Broca!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Selwynn]

46. They are pro-responsible gun ownership.

[readmoreoften]

13. If you're willing to loan me one

and hide in the foxhole with me when they come for my gay progressive ass, you'd be more than a progressive, you'd be my hero.

[Broca]

23. 8-Year-Old Accidentally Exercises Second Amendment Rights

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/second_amendment.html (borrowed from http://www.theonion.com/ ).

I own several long guns. There is nothing you can do better with a hand gun other than conceal it.

Foxholes are way overrated and very dirty. As I understand it these days most shooting is done from the window of moving automobiles.

[karlrschneider]

16. I've owned guns since age 9, 54 years ago. My SO and I have at least

15 between us. We are as liberal, or progressive as anyone you've ever met.

[confludemocrat]

17. As long as you don't sleep with it

Who cares? You might need it one day. The Abraham Lincoln Brigade had members who were liberal and knew how to use a gun and their fight will light us down to the latest generation.

[newyawker99]

40. Hi confludemocrat!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Hell in a Handbasket]

18. what, um, are you trying to say? are you looking for a fight?

of course your ideology isnt based on what you choose to own.

[ulTRAX]

25. no... but

No but ideology plays a role in what one CHOOSES to own. I do believe some Progressives have litmus tests on issues such as global warming and abortion.

[CHIMO]

19. Does Arms

Mean only guns?

[Andy_Stephenson]

20. No your just a gun toting progressive...

like me.

[fryguy]

21. not at all

contrary to what the NRA and the GOP want people to think, gun ownership (as well as god and family values) is by no means a litmus test for or against membership to either party.

[mermaid]

22. Ummmm, No...It Means You Are A Progressive With A Gun

Not ALL Democrats/Progressives are anti-gun, you know.

We are just anti-"free guns for everyone"

We favor background checks to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. We favor banning certain types of assault weapons that have only one function...to kill people.

Many of us are sportsmen/hunters, and many of us own shotguns for home defense, and some of us even carry concealed weapons for personal protection.

There is nothing in being a progressive that says you are not allowed to protect yourself and your property and your family by whatever means you think best.

Personally, me...I have an attack dog.

She's the sweetest thing in the world with everyone....when I am around. Mess with me, or try coming in my place when I'm not here, and you are likely to have your head ripped off.

When she's in guard mode, don't screw with her. for me, that is how I choose to protect my property and myself.

If you choose a different means, that does not make you less a progressive...but I will point out a gun in the house does you no good when no one is home! My attack dog protects my property when no one is home.

[LittleClarkie]

26. Naw, as long as you also support sanity in gun laws

I'm trying to remember the elected official who made a commercial for gun control. He held up the kind of gun he'd hunted with as a kid, and said that this was NOT the kind of gun he was talking about. Then he held up an ouzi (or something automatic) and said that this was the kind of gun he was talking about in relation to the bill they were working on.

Even cops supported the Brady Bill. Does that mean they were anti-gun? Nah, they were pro-sanity in gun use.

It annoyed me when a gun owner I know said he was glad Kerry lost, because he was going to take all the guns away. No, he wasn't. He hunts too. And I consider him a Progressive in many of his stances.

So no, you're just a Progressive with a gun. It's the absolutists who freak me out, just like in pro-life issues and other areas.

[derby378]

28. To me, sanity in gun laws means dropping the AWB

It killed us nationally in 1994, and I say good riddance to bad rubbish. We've got a nation to take back from the forces of darkness.

[ultraist]

27. Dean had an A rating from the NRA

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. One reason why he had to be knocked out ASAP.

If the truth got out about him the RW would not be able to claim that it was the anti-abortion, pro-gun, anti-gay vote that cost the Dems the election. Against Kerry, the lies were more believable to the Bushbots.

[dyermaker]

29. I think these people would say you are still a progressive...

I think these people would say you are still a progressive...

http://www.pinkpistols.com/

[Fescue4u]

31. Nope. Just a FREE AMEICAN

execising his civil ight.

[oldfogey]

32. I agree

that there is nothing wrong with owning a firearm and considering yourself a progressive. Some do not understand that a firearm is a tool.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v3.0
==================



This week is our first quarter 2005 fund drive. Democratic
Underground is a completely independent website. We depend almost entirely
on donations from our members to cover our costs. Thank you so much for
your support.

[Swamp Rat]

34. Then you are a "Progressive who owns a gun."

Or maybe a "Gun Owning Progressive... GOP?:think:... SO you ARE a RW troll! AHHHHH! :o

Just kidding. :D

[demodonkey]

36. Hey I am a farm-raised GGOP (Girl Gun Owning Progressive)...

...but my score with a feller
Is lower than a celler, oh you can't get a man with a gun...

...With a gu-un, with a gu-un, oh you can't get a man with a gun...

...No a man never trifles with gals who carry rifles
oh you can't get a man with a gun!

:P

[Stirk]

37. I have a gun, too. I really wish the Democratic Party would back off

the gun issues. I think it costs them more support than it gains.

[VOX]

38. Responsible gun ownership shouldn't be a political issue.

The right wing has made it into an issue, but it shouldn't be one.

[xultar]

41. No you aren't...you're a RW plant and a troll and a Thug.

just kidding :P

[bunkerbuster1]

43. made me look.

heh.

[rman]

44. liberals are more like "the reasonable gun regulation crowd"

how come you don't know that?

[benburch]

47. Keep it cleaned and oiled, brother!

Because we may need it soon.

[Toucano]

48. Not at all.

No single issue determines that.

The fanatic gun culture, where the weapon is celebrated and exhaulted is unprogressive.

Your outlook is responsible and reasoned, although I think your interpretation of the Constitution is flawed because 2nd amendment expressly handles the right to bear arms. The right is enumerated in the 2nd amendment, so it doesn't really fit other rights retained by the people.

Your example of birth control fits "other rights" because birth control isn't expressly enumerated elsewhere in the constitution.

That's my take anyway.

The point is you can be a progressive and be a gun owner. You cannot be a progressive and be a gun fanatic. Especially if the issue of guns causes you to vote against your more important interests, like medical insurance, food, and housing.