Question for people: Do you think all terrorism is CIA ops?

[ButterflyBlood]

I'm beginning to feel that some actually think this based on what I see on DU. The way right wing bloggers love to pick a few wacko comments from here happens all the time after this. After the train bombing in Spain, I remember many people screaming that the the US had to be behind this despite the fact there was absolutely nothing to gain and in fact all that happened is Bush's buddy got booted as a result. Regardless many refused to believe that anyone besides the CIA could be behind this. Now there's the assasination of the former Lebanese prime minister, and many people are instantly blaming the CIA or Mossad despite the possibilities of Hezbollah, Syria and other candidates which are logical. Now I'm not saying I believe everything the media says or that it isn't a possibility, but there are other more logical possibilities, and it's better to simply not baselessly point fingers at the US or Israel based only our strong dislike of Bush. While he sucks completely and is the biggest threat to the world currently, that doesn't mean he's behind EVERYTHING that goes wrong. Throwing such accusations reminds me of how the Freepres blame Clinton's penis for everything.

So basically, do you people think that Hezbollah, al-Qaeda and the like all just dmagically disappeared when Bush stole the election and now every act of terrorism has to be a CIA op since there's no one else to do them?

[benburch]

1. No, not all of it. Not even most of it.

Just when it is useful to the CIA. One or two times a decade they need to revert to wet work and making it look like it was done by whomever they need to frame.

[papau]

3. In the 60's and the 80's a bit more often-but I agree that the CIA doesn't

do terror and indeed is pretty good at preventing terror - esp. here is the US.

[benburch]

26. However, the little they do is bad enough!

We shouldn't work that way.

[Why Syzygy]

2. no

it's incompetence or something worse.

With all the wealth, power, technololgoy upon the planet, the fact that people are still terrorized lays directly in the lap of those with wealth, power and technology. Oh and they make up the rules too.

[mike_c]

4. of course not....

I would not be at all surprised if SOME terrorism is perpetrated by the CIA or its associates, either to achieve specific strategic objectives (kill X or create chaos in Y but make it look like someone else did it) or to actually stoke the WOT fires, but it's ludicrous to suggest that all terrorism has anything at all to do with the CIA. It's also true however that a significant amount of terrorism IS a reaction to U.S. foreign policy, U.S. military adventures abroad, or U.S. covert operations. That's not the same as claiming that the CIA is responsible for all terrorism, but it's also a far cry from the mantra that "they" simply hate us for our freedom.

[kuozzman]

5. I think the CIA uses the media to affect public opinion

regarding selective cases of torture/etc. to help Bush carry out his agenda. There is an endless amount of torture that is ignored. And then there is a lot that the media focuses on, which often helps Bush carry out his plans. And I do think that the CIA sponsors certain parts of that terrorism.

[Old and In the Way]

11. Media is quite an effective tool.

CIA has a big investment in corporate media.

Like the Hariri assassination. Could very well be that they had absolutely nothing at all to do with the physical event. But that doesn't preclude using that event to mold public opinion to further this administration's agenda.

[Jamastiene]

30. That's a fact.

I used to have a genuine US military manual about psychological warfare and that is precisely what they do.

[burn the bush]

6. no, I don't. The sad part is that we have come to learn how very corrupt

our govt. is and it has caused us to be able to believe that the bastards are capable of anything. So when anything at all happens, it's just not too hard to believe they are behind it. And with them holding all of the cards and all of the proof and not coming out with it, well it's hard to discount them from anything.
At the same time, yes I do realize that they are not doing all of it, but I will bet that they have a hand in more of it then we know.

[Technowitch]

7. In a word, no.

Believing a single organization is the cause of all the acts of terrorism and hatred and the rest? I don't think so.

[Us vs Them]

14. Hey guess what?

Al Qaeda. Boo!

[bpilgrim]

8. of course not...

just most of it.

we focus on our OWN, where we might hope, work and many pray to affect change.

psst... pass the word


http://images.globalfreepress.com

do you not realize how much money we've poured into fundementalism, especially in the ME on BOTHSIDES of the fightS, to practice and promote TERRORISM :shrug:

peace

[punpirate]

9. Certainly, people are reacting...

... to the immediate assumptions in the press that Syria was responsible, when there was no evidence at all available--that sort of smacks of a disinformation campaign.

Clearly, there are groups out there who engage in terrorism, but I'll only say this: the CIA knows Osama bin Laden much better than they're saying. He learned to move money and set up training camps from them in the `80s. That's the sort of thing that makes people wonder.

As for Spain, remember that the government fell in large part not because of the attacks, but because the government tried to lie to the public about what they knew--they immediately tried to blame it on the Basques, even when there was evidence otherwise. Had they carried the lie off, Aznar might well still be in power.

One simply can't be sure of what's happening with the level of secrecy and disinformation in place right now, combined with the lack of oversight being shown by Congress. I think that's what prompts suspicion.

Cheers.

[ButterflyBlood]

10. I don't think it was Syria either

but Hezzbollah is very likely.

As for Spain while that's true, polls were showing before that Aznar's party would've likely won anyway, therefore there is really no reason for such an attack, there was nothing to gain and everything to lose, which happened.

[punpirate]

12. It was the sudden assumption about...

... Syria that bothers many, which I have to wonder about--there's been a fair amount of cooperation from Syria after 9/11, and according to Sy Hersh, a good deal of backchannel communications between them and the US about how they can help, so it's odd that they would go after a former prime minister.

As for Spain, could be mistaken, but I thought the poll closest to the bombing showed the socialists behind by a couple of points. Then again, given our own experience with polls, who's to say?

Cheers.

[bpilgrim]

18. they were saying an attack in spain would STRENGTHEN the neoCONs hand

looks like they - the neoCONs - were wrong, again.

peace

[oblivious]

13. Intelligence agencies (not just the CIA) are behind almost all terrorism.

[Last Lemming]

15. The Spain stuff

may have been a misstep--they meant for the election to go exactly the other way (hey! it works in America)
Reread the stuff about Spain--single unexploded back pack discovered BY CHANCE! with a copy of the Koran (or similar signifier) in place

[gumby]

16. No, not everything, but much, much more than most

people know about.

Browse here: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope_page.html

[No Exit]

17. We have no FACTS as to who was behind most of these acts.

So why should we believe the Official Story that is told to explain each of these various atrocities?

For my part, it's not that I'm saying definitely that the CIA/Mossad is behind this or that act of "terror"; I'm just saying that that is certainly a plausible explanation, b/c both those entities have been WELL-KNOWN to use tactics like that in the past.

Some of the acts of "terror" certainly are really carried out by arabs/muslims. I think those are done in REACTION to atrocities WE have perpetrated on THEM. IOW, our sinister forces provoke them, and they stupidly fall into the trap (commit a terrorist act), thus making themselves look even worse (to westerners.)

[solinvictus]

19. No...

but it has created Frankenstein's monsters that are running rampant out of control.

[Colorado Blue]

20. Of course not - and I think we're in grave danger of...

losing sight of reality with all these theories about the CIA.

The other problem associated with forgetting the reality of terror is this: it blinds us to the problems within the terrorists' communities, or within their own minds, that are leading them to such desperate acts. We can't go pointing the finger at CIA, or Mossad, or any other intelligence group, without simultaneously muffling the voices of the terrorists. Terrorism is by nature a political act. Although I believe there is no justification for terror there are certainly causes and we need to keep focused on those and not get all confused by smoke and mirrors of own making. To pretend the terrorists are all gone and that CIA is doing all the evil is to be a sitting duck.

That isn't fair to us or to the people who are injured and killed by terrorists - AND it doesn't help us figure out how to help solve the problems that lead to terrorism. Not that all of them can be solved - some terrorism is political in nature and maybe can be worked out, such as in Ireland, although that has taken several hundred years; and some is a matter of religious and/or social conflict and some is just flat irrational. Nevertheless it is interesting to me that CIA has finally figured out that starting a war in Iraq is leading to increased threats of terrorism, duh.

I have other thoughts on the matter but I am falling asleep:)

Peace!

[oblivious]

37. This is more than theories. There is documented evidence.

Read about some of it.

http://context.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2005/02/18/120.html

You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force ... the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security."

This was the essence of Operation Gladio, a decades-long covert campaign of terrorism and deceit directed by the intelligence services of the West -- against their own populations. Hundreds of innocent people were killed or maimed in terrorist attacks -- on train stations, supermarkets, cafes and offices -- which were then blamed on "leftist subversives" or other political opponents. The purpose, as stated above in sworn testimony by Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra, was to demonize designated enemies and frighten the public into supporting ever-increasing powers for government leaders -- and their elitist cronies.

[Djinn]

21. few people think EVERY act of terrorism is state sponsored

but history does tend to show that a hell of a lot of them are and being the biggest baddie on the block for a while now means that the US a fair amount of bloods on it's hands.

some people here (and elsewhere) think 9/11 was MIHOP or that Mossad did it, some people think the US was involved in Hariri's death, some people belive the world is controlled by the Rothschilds who are giant lizards from outer space (actually probably not too many of that last lot here ;-) ) but I'd say the numbers anywhere that think the CIA is responsible for all of it are pretty low.

The vast majority realise that acts of terroism are committed by a myriad of groups from a handful of pissed off rednecks (see Timothy McVeigh) to religious bampots (see Osama & pals) to intelligence and related agencies (see CIA, ISI,Istakhbarat, Mossad,)

The US (& plenty of other nations too, not looking at you Saudi, Iran, Israel, Pakistan....) have the dubious honour of directly being terrorists and also of ensuring that everything bampots like Al Qaeda get up to (personally I think they're not quite as big and cohesive as we're led to beleive but who knows?) does have atleast a small "intelligence" fingerprint on it, they all have to take atleast some credit for nurturing and helping to finance and arm a scary bunch of wahhabists.

As the behemouth, the US tends to get a lot of attention but it's also because unfortunately they've got a fair bit of "form" ask millions of civilians in South and Central America and South East Asia what they think.

In all, a reasonable amount of sceptism towards the "intelligence" agencies is probably not a bad idea.

[neweurope]

23. This person is also convinced that the Madrid train station bombing was

good ole CIA work.

-----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Djinn]

31. I could never see what the US would gain from that one

but it wouldn't neccesarilly surprise me to find out otherwise - we may find out the truth about some events years from now, maybe not.

[neweurope]

41. At the time the US were trying to get Europe to adopt stricter

security laws, "anti-terrorist laws" that make surveillance and control of the population much easier. The US were really putting the pressure on. Europe wasn't too keen on it. After Madrid it took only a couple of weeks. And these laws are NOT GOOD. :grr:

And you are right - in some cases it will take years or even decades before we find out the truth.

-------------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[neweurope]

22. No, of course not, but a lot of it is. And ONCE would have been too much.

Because of ethics, because of credibility, because of international complications and making the world more dangerous instead of safer and for a lot of other reasons - once would have been too much. Whenever I hear of a "terrorist act" I say "Well, let's wait ten years to see who it really was."



-------------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[UdoKier]

24. Of course not.

But that doesn't mean the CIA couldn't be involved in some of these incidents to varying degrees. Who knows?

[PowerToThePeople]

25. All, always, never...

These words very rarely can be used honestly. Only in extreme cases like "* will always only look after the needs of his rich buddies" and "* will never admit to lying to the citizens of this country for the past 4 years."

So, no, I do not think ALL terrorist activities are CIA-ops. But I am sure some of them very well could be..

[Al-CIAda]

27. Not ALL, but half (+/- 50%) -eom

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

28. Not all, but I do believe some. n/t

[lostnfound]

29. No, not all. nt

[SmokingJacket]

32. Not all, but some... and therefore each incident should be looked at

carefully.

Frankly, with our piss-poor media, I never know WHAT to think. I KNOW I'm not getting the full story, no matter what the full story is. So, I'm inclined to be suspicious.

But of course there are real bad guys out there doing bad things. I just wish we could trust the people who are entrusted with investigating these matters.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[femme.democratique]

34. I knew I'd find you here GrovelBot....

[femme.democratique]

35. I think that all terrorism on American soil is CIA.

[RBHam]

36. Not all, but there IS a historic pattern...

A History of CIA Atrocities
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/history-cia-atrocities.htm

[sweetheart]

38. Not the CIA per se: "The Patriarchy"

The CIA are merely agents for a far more cynical and malefic force
that extends beyond US borders in an attempt for worldwide control...
the clan of the patriarch.

That nobody who starts wars, sells WMD's and such, is ever persecuted,
is a sign that the patriarchy is actively involved in terrorism and
formenting terrorism... it is their mission, to colonize every
corner of the earth with their control, and to take the wealth
back stateside.

The CIA was blatantly involved in many war crimes, and the people
who ordered their terrorism should be hanged...

Hizbullah exists because of the patriarchy, a patriarchal response
to a patriarchal colonialism and land-grab... in the world of men,
what can you expct?

[chlamor]

39. Nice post

The CIA has an arsenal of weapons such as CIA schools, Infiltration and manipulation of selected groups, News manipulation, bugging, wire tapping, planting of evidence, blackmail, coercion, assasination and even outright bombings. It's" strategy of tension"-"Creating conditions." The death toll is high.

[Dirk39]

40. Not all terrorism....

Hello from Germany,
not all terrorism is CIA ops.
Other countries have secret-services, too.

But doesn't the USA now have 15 secret services and a well known terrorist and criminal: Mr. Negroponte, is coordinating them?

Considering what the CIA has done in the past, in Europe after WWII, considering all the things we know about what they did in Latin America: they might not be responsible for ALL terrorism, but they might be the most criminal, corrupt and powerfull terrorist organisation in the world. One cannot even make a difference anymore between organized crime, women- and drugtrading and the CIA.
They have created Al Quaida and Bin Laden and the "muslim" schools in Afghanistan among many more things.
Your question is somehow misleading: there isn't a border between terrorism and the CIA: they create it, they fight it, they control it, they use it. And they work for the most corrupt and criminal and cynical government in the world.
On the other hand, I did never understand the "I" in CIA. And they should not be overrated.
I guess they just need the Paranoid to feel as important as they feel.

Most of the people, working for the CIA, do not understand the Muslims, they did never understand the Left in Latin America, they just completely failed, whenever they didn't use bombs and terrorists.
In many ways, it seems to me that the CIA, among their criminal and stupid activities, is just a pretty lame organisation, pretending to work. They should not be overrated, besides all the nonsense and violence they create. Northamerica (and the rest of the world) should be glad that the CIA-work cannot be exported or imported as other gods. If so, China would produce American safety for long - better and cheaper.


Dirk