Any Scientologists out there?

[Swede]

Check out this anti-Scientology site.

http://www.xenu.net/

[htuttle]

1. Xenu Saves!

You didn't include a link.

Here's a good one:
http://www.xenu.net/

[Swede]

2. Oops.

Thanx.

[On the Road]

3. ALL Scientologists are "Out There"

for some reason, I doubt that many of them patronize DU.

[thebigidea]

4. yeah, you don't get much free time on the "Bridge to Total Freedom"

or whatever it is those wacky Operating Thetans call it.

I used to love mocking and parodizing scientologists - they were such a fun net "enemy" - that is, until the Bush gang came along.

Oh, Elron - wherefore art thou, Elron?

[Stop_the_War]

5. L. Ron Hubbard is a shitty sci-fi writer, and his cult is worse...

[reprehensor]

7. Ouch!

The movie Battlefield Earth really sucked ass, but I enjoyed the book. It's pulpy, fast-paced, much better than I though it would be.

But his home-made religion is nutso.

I'm a big fan of the 1930's - 1950's writers, Korbluth, Simak, etc...

Hubbard could actually write sci-fi.

[Still_Loves_John]

6. Religiously, I'm pretty inclusive

But this is one that I've decided I'm allowed to think is just stupid.

[reprehensor]

8. The best thing is that tin-can clearing device.

Whacky. And you have to PAY to use it.

Double-whacky.

[mzmolly]

9. Tom Cruise is a Scientologist, and he's a liberal.

;)

So is Kirstie Alley, John Travolta and Cher. All Liberals to my knowlegge?

Not that it means it's a good "religion" it just means we should perhaps be a bit more respectful?

[ET Awful]

11. Do some research on what they did to Lisa McPherson then come back

and tell me to be respectful.

Here's a good start http://www.lisamcpherson.org/

[mzmolly]

16. I read all the stuff about them, but it seems hard to believe that

seemingly rational reasonable people would subscrible to this?

[ET Awful]

17. They prey on people who are at their weakest.

They attempt to gather all types of people who are easily influenced. People who are seeking "meaning" to their life, people who are depressed, people with chemical dependencies, etc. They basically tell everyone that they have the cure for all that ails them, and they lure people in for a cheap book here, some "auditing" there. Eventually they get people hooked on their basic spiel, then they charge larger and larger amounts to "teach" them more.

Much like any other cult (and make no mistake, that's what they are), they prey on the weak and easily influenced.

They encourage people to sell their belongings, mortgage their houses, take out huge loans, borrow from relatives, ANYTHING to come up with money for the next courses and such. I've actually witnessed them telling someone that he should buy a $500 course when he had specifically told them that he wouldn't have money to eat if he did it, they told him "this course will help you more than food in the long run." This was a friend of mine, and I grabbed him by the arm and dragged him out the door while they were trying to encourage ME to sign up and/or loan him the money.

[mzmolly]

23. Sounds like lots of other bullshit religions available today.

Very sad. As I said, I'll with hold judgement until I can look into this a bit more.

[ET Awful]

28. Find another religion that charges hundreds of thousands of dollars

for you to learn their teachings.

[mzmolly]

31. That's is insane.

:crazy:

[K-W]

19. Why would you think these people are rational?

When thier being scientoligists proves they arent.

What makes them seem rational?

[htuttle]

14. No, we shouldn't

It's a predatory cult explicitly constructed to make money.

L Ron Hubbard started it because he made a bet with someone that he could make a million tax free by starting a church.

The celebrities involved get a WHOLE different treatment than the rank and file (who are sometimes shunted off to some Sea Org forced labor camp).

They are as much a 'religion' as the Church of the Subgenius (which at least doesn't take itself seriously)

[mzmolly]

20. I'll have to look into it more, but the website doesn't describe

anything like the stuff I'm hearing here:

http://www.scientology.org/en_US/home.html

[K-W]

21. You mean the cult isnt honest? Im shocked. EOM

[ET Awful]

24. And the RNC website doesn't describe what the PNAC has planned

but they sure as hell back it up don't they?

Do you honestly believe they're going to tell you on their site that they are ripping people off?

Do the research, I would think that you'd be more sceptical than to accept anything that such an organization says about themselves without at least looking into what people who have left the organization for exactly the reasons we're discussing say.

[mzmolly]

26. No, but I think they'd mention "thetans" were it a part of their religion.

I'm not defending the so called religion, but I don't believe every piece of swill I read about it on the internet either.

[ET Awful]

27. If they told someone off the street "Hey, we can get rid of those aliens

who have attached themselves to your body, they're called thetans" they wouldn't get very many takers.

Read the materials.

Then ask yourself why Scientology aggressivly prosecutes anyone who dares to quote, even in a fair use manner, any of their teaching materials (the "tech" as they call it).

When you've talked to people that were in for years and left, let me know. I know people that were involved for 15 years or more, spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, and left. Read the material at Xenu.net.

[mzmolly]

29. Will do.

:hi:

I like to explore both sides of an issue before drawing conclusions. I do appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

[K-W]

37. thats the same logic that makes fox news fair and balanced.

Giving scientology the benefit of the doubt isnt being objective, its being fooled into buying into it.

[mzmolly]

39. Oh please.

:eyes:

I gave Fox the benefit of the doubt, and watched for myself before making up my mind. Novel idea huh?

[K-W]

40. Believing all claims until they are debunked

is a really uncritical unrational way to approach the world.

And dont oh please me it is the EXACT same logic they use. As if giving conservative talking points and the facts equal time is fair and balanced.

[mzmolly]

42. That's what your apparently doing. I have said "I will make up my own

mind about this religion" that threatens you apparently.

I'm off to dinner, so I'll have to end this nonsense. :hi:

[K-W]

43. The only nonsense here is in your posts.

Im sorry but the idea that being open minded means throwing reason aside and giving all claims the benefit of the doubt is insane, and is precisely the logic that republicans used to get thier propagandists on tv.

[K-W]

18. Respectful of a cult that steals people's money? Are you joking?

Yah, they let celebrities sit in a mansion in california feeling good about themselves so they can use them to recruit poor gullible people across the country and steal their money.

[mzmolly]

22. Sounds like any other organized religion to me. Except the celebs

have a different avenue. Oral Roberts, PTL, Robert Schuller ...

[DoYouEverWonder]

46. The rich ones get treated differently

they are accepted into the higher circles and don't have to work and take the endless classes to learn the secrets.

[ET Awful]

10. Watch out for those thetans man!

Xenu is gonna break free from that intergalactic prison, and boy is he pissed.

Something about somebody trying to blow him up with a bunch of interstellar wingless DC-10 aircraft.

:)

[Swede]

12. It'll only cost you $100,000 to find out for sure.

Bargain.

[kittenpants]

13. OT--your cats are pretty damn cute.

[ET Awful]

15. Thanks :)

They aren't even $cientologists

[mzmolly]

25. I searched for "thetans" and "xenu" and found nada on their

website? Seems odd that the'd promote this babble, but not inform people about it?

I believe it's possible that Ron L Hubbard is a crook and that people who are "lost" flock to his cult like many others, but I don't know if I believe all the shit I hear about this religion either.

[rman]

30. they claim their holy book is copyrighted

they don't want anyone to publish anything from it, anywhere.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/home.html

"This homepage is approved of by court. Twice, by now. It has thereby become the world's first legal Fishman Homepage. Read the ruling of the February 1996 lawsuit, summary proceedings, in either English or Dutch. On June 10, 1999, there was a second ruling, this time in full procedure: my page can still stay up. Read the ruling in Dutch or in English. Scientology has appealed this ruling. It is not yet known when pleas will be held."

<snip>

"The Church of Scientology (or: CoS; or: Co$, as some of their opponents call it) sells its followers expensive courses which, if students study them carefully, are supposed to set them free ('clear' them). A former Scientology member, Steven Fishman, was brought before court because he committed several crimes in order to get the money to pay for these courses. Scientology urged him to get the money any which way he could. According to Fishman, they also assigned him to kill somebody, and failing that, ordered him to commit suicide. In an interview for Time Magazine, Fishman relayed those stories and blamed Scientology for his crimes. Scientology sued him for slander.

When Fishman was then brought to court, he used parts of Scientology-documents to prove he had been brainwashed by the Church. These Scientology documents thereby became public material: anybody could go to the court library and read them. The Church, fearing that its sacred secrets would be revealed, had some of their people going to the library every day to borrow these documents, thereby preventing other people (read: non-Scientologists) from reading them. Nevertheless, the Fishman Affidavit got copied (it was also available through the clerk of the court, for a mere $36.50). Somebody retrieved the affidavit via the clerk, scanned it, and posted it to the net. The Fishman Affidavit has been travelling on the Internet ever since.

The funny thing is, when you read the document, you'll just see a bunch of gibberish. Apart from the instructions of how to treat non-Scientologists - almost every means is allowed to silence them; lying is common sense; cheating is part and parcel - there's just this silly and badly written science-fiction tale about Xenu who controls all of us people; except (of course) the few Scientologist who managed to 'clear' themselves. Well, L. Ron Hubbard was an sf-author, but not a very good one (and jeez, I happen to like the genre)."

<more>

[mzmolly]

36. Yikes, I'm about to check half.com for a used version

just so I can read it LOL.

[ET Awful]

41. You can't get it.

It is NOT available outside of a "church".

You must first go through several levels of courses (up through and including several "OT (Operating Thetan)" levels before you can receive the information that is really what they are teaching.

You will not find any book other than "Dianetics" and the like which is kind of like someone handing you the first section of Genesis and offering to sell you the rest of the Bible a few pages at a time for a few thousand bucks a shot.

You won't find it for sale, Scientology would sue anyone who tried to sell it into submission.

[ET Awful]

32. Little hint. . .

the teachings about Thetans and Xenu (or Xemu) are at the highest levels of Scientology, they require you to invest huge amounts of money before they release this information, it is NOT a publicly taught piece of information.

They don't publicize it because (A) it would guaranty no one would ever spend a dime with them again, and (B) they actually believe that if they give the information to someone who has not learned enough about Scientology yet, it will make them ill and they will die.

Read the information that's out there. Do you always take an organization for what THEY say, or do you investigate what other people that were involved with them say?

Do you belive what right-wing hack "journalists" say, or do you investigate what a prior right-wing hack like David Brock says about what is going on with right-wing journalism?

[K-W]

34. I dont know why you are giving scientology so much credit.

But please stop. I understand that you want to be open minded, but scientology is pretty cut and dry. It is a for profit religious cult. If you give your fellow DU'rs any credit, please give us some on this.

Im surprised you didnt already know this. I thought it was common knowledge.

[mzmolly]

38. I am not defending scientology, but the right for people to have

different beliefs as long as said beliefs are not "harming" others.

I guess when it comes to Scientology, the "harm" part is questionable.

I know that the religion takes alot of flack, but anything outside the box does.

As I said, I will look into it as I'm now interested.

I am not in a position to defend or denounce them at this point.

I just don't like when a thread "trolls" for scientologists only to trash them.

Hey, "any Catholics out there" KWIM?

[K-W]

44. You are so eager to embrace the weird that you are embracing obvious fraud

You seem to be under the impression that scientology is some tradition based faith that people arrive to on thier own.

It isnt, it is a centralized cult designed specifically to suck in gullible people and take thier money.

[rman]

45. "Spot a Thetan"

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/ot5.html

..."While still inside with eyes shut in a comfortable position the
pre OT is to follow the following commands and write down any
major cognitions.

(9) Spot an object in the room.
(10) Spot an bject outside.
(11) Locate a moving object.
(12) Locate a spot in your body.
(13) Spot a motion.
(14) Locate a space.
(15) Spot a Thetan."

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/index2.html > "OTV"

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Zhade]

35. Man, I hope not, it's an even worse cult than Mormonism!

I should know, I'm ex-Mormon.

[geniph]

47. Yeah, way too f***ing many of them, too!

I wish they'd stop handing me their damn propaganda booklet. I try doing my best Emily Litella impression ("Diabetics? I'm not a diabetic, why are you trying to hand that to me?") but it doesn't get rid of them any faster than the taser.

[Moderator]

48. locking.

As posted this seems to be intentionally inflammatory.

Please fell free to repost in a less confrontational manner.

Also, see our Religion and Theology forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=214

Thanks for your consideration.