One more time: gay hooker in the White House = blackmail.

[Minstrel Boy]

It's been an ugly truism of intelligence gathering for generations. Even the Poppy Bush White House played this game.

If the White House wanted just a conservative shill in the press corp, they could have found many eager to jump who could actually have passed a security check.

The hooker angle isn't a distraction. It's isn't homophobia. It is the story.

"It's the blackmail, stupid!"

[Padraig18]

1. It's the lying, and you don't know that he's gay.

All anyone knows is that he's a lying whore--- period.

[ultraist]

5. Who is the real oppressor?

The negative obsession with Gannon being gay is the same type of nasty obsession with gays that the fundies have. It's getting out of hand. People warned that this could happen and I think it is happening.

I was with the "out the gay prostitute" crowd but also warned that this opened the door for the long standing gay lynchings that go on.

If several gays have noticed & are voicing their concern and even some straights are noticing it, I wouldn't write it off as paranoia or oversensitivity.

Honestly, I'm not really as informed on gay issues as I should be, but even I have noticed this dynamic.

People need to get a grip and stop feeding on the adrenalin rush they get when they engage in the "fight" or "negative obsession with gays."

I'm sensing hetero code speak at work here. Heteros can be very crafty when they insult gays. Let's not be naive and deny that fact. We all have heard it. We've all heard snarky little gay lynching comments that were cloaked in PC.

The fact is, a very FEW gays have LEFT their community and joined up with the oppressor group. These few turncoats are NOT the real problem and diverting focus on them, is misguided.

Gannon is a pawn, the real enemy here is BUSH et al. WHO HIRED Gannon? WHO IS THE REAL POWER HOLDER HERE?

[saracat]

11. Excuse me? What is he then? He offers his services as a "top"!

It isn't that he is gay that is offensive, It is that he is a prostitute and a liar. This is a huge story. This is much worse than Monica. Monica wasn't used as a mole. Why should he be cut a break because he is gay? If all the public will pay attention to is salacious sex, and that is what it takes to pull this hypocrtical lying den of theives down, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with it.

[Padraig18]

12. He's a *whore*, saracat.

Just because he advertises as a 'top' doesn't make him gay.

[Minstrel Boy]

14. And the testimonials of clients, the nude photos,

are just lies, damn lies?

Please tell me:

Why would he lie about such a thing?

[Padraig18]

15. Gay is about who you ARE, not what you do in bed.

:eyes:

[Minstrel Boy]

19. Okay, I understand you now.

Then let's drop the adjective and talk about the hooking.

[Padraig18]

24. I'm more than happy to talk about the lying and the whoring.

:hi:

[bear425]

40. You're absolutely right.

There are many lesbian hookers who have sex with men all the time.

[LibertyorDeath]

65. Well said

"Gay is about who you ARE, not what you do in bed."

[Radio-Active]

29. Client Testimonials? Nude Photos?

what did I miss?

Can somebody give me a link??

[Zan_of_Texas]

53. Let's cut back on the emotion and deal with the facts, gang.

Gannon has apparently been hanging out in the DC and Philly area for several years, based on his X-rated website ads.

The Washington Blade (a gay newspaper in DC) has sources telling it they saw Gannon at a party in 1998. The party is described as mostly having gay men. And, it's called an "orgy."

They have printed a picture of someone who looks like Gannon. Sources said the picture was taken at the party. Another picture, not printed, is more explicit.

Reporter exposed as GOP operative
Guckert linked to male escort sites, Va. orgy party: sources
By JOE CREA
Washington Blade
Friday, February 18, 2005
http://www.washblade.com/2005/2-18/news/national/reporter.cfm

PHOTO: This is one of two photos sources provided to the Blade of a man who appears to be Jeff Guckert, who worked in the White House press corps as ‘Jeff Gannon.’ The sources claim Guckert attended a sex party for gay men in 1998. In the other photo, which the Blade is not publishing, the man who appears to be Guckert is embracing another man while exposing his penis.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Okay. I am of the opinion that Gannon/Guckert engages in sexual activity with men.

In a more perfect world, consenting adults could have sex with each other in private without the government or the press interfering.

We live in a world that is way far from perfect. Large numbers of people engage in sex with someone not their spouse, or someone of the same gender, etc. etc., but if they are in the public eye, the potential for those secrets to result in career-ruining blackmail is huge.

This is the price we pay for living in a society that is incredibly hypocritical.

The Bush Administration is setting all time world records for hypocrisy on many fronts, but this may be the biggest.

A guy whose only apparent credentials are rough-trade faux military gay sex ads should not have access to breaking news from the White House, whether it's real or fake Valerie Plame documents, or the privilege of asking questions at a press conference. Since that is the case, the White House needs to answer questions and provide documents.

We can bet they will not tell the truth, and will trot out their usual assortment of spin and lies. So, we just have to get to the bottom of it. (oops)

[saracat]

18. They have the billing recepits for a gay escort service he established to

sell himself. He certainly insn't straight and he wasn't selling himself to women. He isn't a whore. They give it away.He charges.That makes him a prostitute!:) He is representative of Republican hypocrisy and it scum. I am delighted this happened. Maybe some of the moral family protecting fundies will see what their tax dollars and contributions really pay for!

[LiberallyInclined]

22. excuse me, but whores do NOT "give it away"...

you're thinking of sluts.

[ultraist]

26. Straight men whore themselves out to men

Haven't you ever heard of straight male prositutes that hook to men because it's harder to find women clients? Having gay sex does NOT mean someone is gay.

And so what if he is gay. That's one SMALL component of the hypocrisy and corruption that is going on here. There is a disproportionate amount of focus on the gay part.

[saracat]

28. That is only because it really pisses off the right. I love irritating the

They more than richly deserve this. They are the one that demonize gays. He is not representaive of the gay community. We know that , but he is their worst nightmare, and they created him. Bwaaaha!

[Lorien]

83. Is there any evidence that he's straight?

I haven't seen any. I'm sorry, but I think that evil and corrupt can come with ANY sexual orientation. I hear a lot of people here bristle when anyone suggests that "Gannon" is gay. I have some great gay friends, and I know two totally despicable human beings who are also gay. I'm not going to give the latter a free pass because of my closeness to the former. Evil is evil; and that comes in every shade, sexual orientation, age and gender.

If Gannon were a straight female prostitute, would everyone say that she really wasn't straight and that we shouldn't focus on the illegal act of prostitution?

:shrug:

[grace0418]

37. That's true

I saw a whole show about straight porn stars who do tons of gay porn because there's more money in it. This one guy would bring his wife along and have her "fluff" him before going on set.

[ultraist]

23. I didn't say cut him a break because he is gay

I said, we should stop slipping in the puns, jokes, and digs that are harmful to gays. It's getting out of hand.

[Misunderestimator]

25. Good way of putting it.

He's gay or he's not but he sold himself to men as gay, so gay is part of the story... can't get away from that. However, it does seem that any modicum of political-correctness (which seems to be wholly reviled around here lately, which it shouldn't be, but that's another matter) has been abandoned right now when it comes to the gay puns and digs thrown in.

[saracat]

27. He is also white , male and has green? eyes.

Let us stop mentioning any of those characteristics as well!:)

[ultraist]

31. Those characteristics aren't being obsessed on, nor do they...

represent characteristics of of an oppressed group.

What is your point?

[saracat]

39. Probably not a good example but I think his being gay is a much part of

him as any other physical characteristics. It is not the left who see evil in being Gay. I say let the bastards be hoisted on their own petard. I can't see treading lightly because Gays are an oppressed group. I never advocated treading lightly where Monica was concerned because she is a woman. But I do understand that it shouldn't be interpreted as a bashing of all the gay community. But as I said, I don't consider him as representative of the gay community anyway. That would like be saying all gigolos and streetwalkers are representative of the straight community.

[ultraist]

45. I understand what you are saying...

and I agree that the homophobic WH has, yet again, been found to be hypocritical.

My point is, that there are an excessive number of *jokes* *puns* and snide comments about gay sex from heteros here lately. These don't criticize the WH, they criticize gays by mocking gay sex in general. That's my point. (Keep in mind, they are not *jokes* about sex in general, they are *jokes* that mock GAY sex).

I'm not saying at all that you are doing that, but that it is occurring on every Gannon thread. One poster even wrote, "first comes love, then comes ... next comes HIV." I don't think that's funny.

[saracat]

49. You are right. That is NOT funny. I think I saw that. Grrr.

[ultraist]

55. Thanks!

:thumbsup:

[tx_dem41]

80. Unbelievable that a DUer would post such a statement. n/t

[Sparkle]

60. His eight and a half inch weapon is being obsessed on.

Should we stop talking about that?:evilgrin:

[Booster]

90. I think he was cut a break because he has a few secrets on

some Bush family members. Has anyone tried to find out what Gannon was doing when the young boys prostitution ring was happening while Poppy was president? How old is Gannon anyway, and was he involved in this ring somehow? I'll bet he could tell stories that would curl our hair about some prominent people in Wash. As someone else pointed out, if they wanted a shill in the press room, there are plenty of squeaky clean people who would have jumped at that chance. As Henry Lee said during the O.J. trile "somethin' wrong".

[starroute]

61. It's all about power, not about sex

There's something fairly creepy about the sex lives of a lot of powerful men, and that's regardless of whether they're nominally straight, gay, or whatever.

It's got nothing to do with love, or with passion, or even with basic horniness. It's all about dominance. Sometimes overtly SMBD, sometimes about more subtle forms of control, like Jack Ryan pressuring his wife Jeri to go to explicit sex clubs. Sometimes it takes an inverted form, with powerful men (or, though far less often, women) looking for other men or women to dominate them.

I don't think anyone here believes that Bush or Rove or any of that bunch are "gay" in a normal, healthy, this-is-the-object-of-my-desire sort of way. These people are creeps and in all probability their sex lives are as creepy as they are. And seeking out a male, marine-fetishistic top to dominate them is one of the likely ways for that creepiness to express itself.

I understand there's an uncomfortable ambivalence between using "gay" to mean "gay by desire" and using it merely to mean "same-sex." Maybe we should pick up Gannon's own term and use "m4m" as a shorthand for the second situation.

But there really is something here that needs to be talked about. It may have nothing to do with gayness in any ordinary sense, but it has an awful lot to do with the empty void that our current rulers display in place of a soul.

[Octafish]

72. Poppy's not a wimp.

He's a macho macho man.



Ask Rev. Moon. He knows. Even the main stooge Arnaud de Borchgrave knows.

[rustydad]

74. Exactly right

Power corrupts in many ways. And we all know that the bush team is obsessed with power and is utterly corrupt. I think the real issue that I hope and pray comes out is who used this guy among the WH team and did he use blackmail to get into the press conferences and the WH. This could spin out of control for gb. Bob

[uppityperson]

2. Was G/G blackmailing someone or someone blackmailing G/G?

[EVDebs]

13. All part of the Puzzle Palace world of Operation Mockingbird eom

[BurtWorm]

3. Could you explain that? Are you suggesting they picked Gannon

because they were expecting him to get outed? Or are you saying he was some sort of security threat to the nation?

[Minstrel Boy]

6. No, what I'm suggesting is

he was used as bait for sexual blackmail in the press pool.

[BurtWorm]

9. Ah!

Interesting theory.

[Eloriel]

66. Possibly -- but also

Please remember he's what I would call a "throwaway." Someone whose past could instantly discredit him were he to get caught up something that the White House and/or Rove would like to jettison themselves away from. (Not sure I'm making myself clear here.)

He's already damanged goods. That's where he starts out. So, if he were to have been caught up in some other type of scandal or revelation re the WH that could be embarrassing, he would automatically be spun off and the story would become about HIM instead of whatever -- not at all unlike Hatfield's past (and remember Rove played footsie, figuratively speaking, with him too) immediately discredited him when the time was right.

Am I making any sense?

This does NOT, IMO, eliminate or cancel out YOUR theory. They can both be true. Plus, I think he has/had a sweetie in the White House.

[hang a left]

85. Uh, OK now I get your point.

But don't you think that the "press pool" knew this guy was iffy, not really one of them, a plant?

What puzzles me is that there is no other history of Guckert that goes beyond 2002. WHO is this guy? It is almost as if he appears out of thin air. Like he was created but, for what? I can't get my brain around it all.

GOPUSA/Eagle/Talon/Eberle/Southeastern Law Center and the other reasearch threads that are here that connect so many other people and organizations are so mind-numbing for me. There are some pretty heavy people/Organizations that are all loosly connected. Where does Gannon fit.

[nashville_brook]

4. yeah, reading The Family and American Dynasty provides a peak into this

the hooker angle in really making people have to WORK to understand it. lots of answering from the reich wing on this and the sex angle will be what keeps it alive.

[Catchawave]

7. Like Heidi Fleiss ?

She had tax problems too. And I think she was smart enough not to have a website. I think the taxes got JimJeff in trouble, and it coulda been "Well, I always wanted to be a journalist that starts at the top" sorta blackmail.

Just spinning my wheels here. Interesting story that I think has alot of evil roots.

[merh]

8. Did you see this article? This is why Gannon's pass is a security

problem and a danger to our national security! SEX FOR SECRETS has always been a source of information for spies and violation of national security. Mata Hari anyone?

Sex for secrets

By SIMON BENSON AND IAN McPHEDERAN

February 19, 2005

AN Israeli spy was kicked out of Australia for trying to seduce female spies, diplomats and defence specialists employed by some of the most sensitive national security agencies, security sources said yesterday.

Amir Laty, expelled on December 28, even targeted journalists in the hope of cultivating young women with access to government secrets.

"It was an attempt at high-level espionage,'' a national security source said.

Apart from Laty's friendship with Attorney-General Philip Ruddock's 26-year-old daughter Caitlin, he is also believed to have had liaisons with a woman from the Defence Intelligence Organisation and another from the Prime Minister and Cabinet Office's international policy unit.

Intelligence experts claimed he used the "honeypot" method, pretending a love interest to entrap woman in middle-level intelligence organisations.

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/redir.php?jid=1868c3a6ed039eea&cat=c08dd24cec417021

[KittyWampus]

73. McGreevy Was Exploited By An Israeli Guy Remember?

[fresnobill314]

10. Yes, but to what end?

It's obvious that a gay hooker is being used to blackmail someone, but where is the righteous indignation?

No one from the Christian Taliban has made a peep about this, not even master homophobe Fred Phelps.

No one in the Dept. of Defense has taken offense that the whore sells himself as a "military stud."

Yesterday's edition of Hardball should have been re-named "T-ball" because Matthews and Buchanan appeared to be afraid to soil their diapers if they had asked a truly "hardball" question. And, since when has Pat Buchanan developed an enlightened attitude toward the gay community.

BLACKMAIL! Yes, of course. But these,too: HYPOCRISY, SCANDAL, and my personal favorite, COVER-UP.

I want this Gannon creep shoved down the throat (pardon the pun) of every self-righteous war-mongering homophobic neocon inside the Beltway.

[ultraist]

21. hmmm....

"shoved down the throat (pardon the pun) "

You are not mocking gay sex are you?

Look, I'm not saying that we should not focus on Gannon, I'm saying that people are slipping in little digs about gays in hetero code speak around here and it needs to stop.

I'm hetero, I'm familiar with the little puns, jokes, code words.

Let's be mindful of the FACT that gays have a long history of being mocked, oppressed and lynched.

Gannon is a pawn that MAY OR MAY NOT lead to bigger fish to fry.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tx_dem41]

87. I think the fact that you and others use the term "gay prostitute"....

instead of just "prostitute" makes it quite obvious what it is.

[loudsue]

95. That is total bullshit. It doesn't "make it obvious"

It's what Gannon IS!! He sells himself to MEN! Gay very commonly refers to men who have sex with men. If you're selling it, rather than giving it, it's prostitution. "Gay", used as an adjective, describes "what kind" of prostitute! "Gay" also has other meanings, but male/male sex is one of them. It's WIDELY understood by anyone who keeps hearing the word "gay" all over the republican-owned press!

It's perfectly valid!! It's not "bashing"...it's merely an adjective more particularly describing what type of prostitute Gannon is!

And, you know what?? I think you DAMN WELL KNOW IT!! So, quit trying to dumb-down the Gannon scandal threads!! In the bush, so prim and proper right wing fundie holier than thou white house, who DECLARED a "man date" in the election from "Christians" with "moral values", and who pushed anti-gay marriage amendments in something like 13 states, the fact that Gannon is a guy who does guys for money is BIG!! Especially when he is shilling for an ANTI-GAY administration! And you DAMN WELL KNOW THAT, TOO!!

So...what in the hell is your agenda with all this??

:kick::kick::kick:

[tx_dem41]

96. Why is it important to describe what kind of prostitute he is?

And what the heck does that mean anyway?!? I thought there was only one kind of prostitute.

Very interesting how you capitalized "MEN" in the first line too. I guess it adds to the sensationalism?

[Mandate My Ass]

32. I agree the silence is deafening

these people are always on a sexual impropriety crusade of one sort or another and this one also has the added bonus of being about illegal sex. Yet the only thing I hear is crickets.

Welcome, fresnobill314. :toast:

[EVDebs]

16. Propaganda value. Gannon/Guckert actually asked questions to Bush

and the 'questions' were conservative talking points.

Begs question, who paid this guy and what's his military background/intelligence background...how'd he get Plame document 'clearance' ?

[BigBearJohn]

17. re: Gannon -- I think the WH went for the entire package deal

pun partially intended

Such a deal! Sex, Reporting, Blogging, dirty deeds
Everything one could want in a supporter.

[zann725]

20. All-in-one...what a bargain!

n/t

[beyurslf]

30. Can you imagine what they'd have done if this was Clinton?

[DU GrovelBot]

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[OmmmSweetOmmm]

34. I can't see blackmail here, I thought when blackmail is involved,

you make the person you're blackmailing do something that they normally wouldn't do. It seems that there was a wonderful symbiotic relationship between Gankert and the liars.

[rman]

35. = open to blackmail = reason not to let him in the WH press core

A simple background check - which is probably standard procedure (or should be) - would have sufficed.
Nevertheless he was let in.
By whom and why?
How much money was involved and where was it coming from?

[Resin]

36. Are you sure he's gay?

Everyone just assumes this character is guy. However, just cause you sell your ass to other men doesn't make you gay believe it or not. I guess he is gay in the Christian sense... where it is an "act" ... but I don't know if he truely is. Not that it matters...

[Dookus]

41. I think if a man

who is sober repeatedly and regularly engages in gay sex, it's a reasonable presumption that he's not straight.

[kikiek]

38. It would certainly make Clinton and Monica come off as a nothing

story. If this were reversed the rich bastards would be coming out of the woodwork to discredit and impeach this administration.

[Lucille]

42. Blackmail would also explain why Guckert wants so much publicity

If his blackmail scheme backfired, he would move from WH pet to persona non grata. The Bushies have a brutal reputation when it comes to their enemies. By moving into the public eye, he has some degree of protection.

I've always been troubled by the fact that Guckert taunted DU to come looking for him, as well as the fact that he announced that "James GAnnon" was an alias. It's also incredible that he kept those websites up after announcing that he was "hiding in plain sight." No kidding. The backfired blackmail scheme is a plausible explanation for me. Of course, he could just be an attention-starved drama queen w/a low IQ, delusions of grandeur, and a death wish.

[hang a left]

89. That is a good point.

" the fact that Guckert taunted DU to come looking for him, as well as the fact that he announced that "James GAnnon" was an alias. "


It was easy to find out about the porn sites. It had to be know that the sites would be found. The sites were also used with the name Gannon and not Guckert. The name he used in his reporting. It is almost like it is a set up.

Come on, he could have used another "alias" for his night job. This story bothers me in that it was tooooooo easy.

[fresnobill314]

43. I know from whence I speak.

Someone objected to my "down the throat" pun, so I'll make myself perfectly clear:

I'm a 51 year old HIV positive gay white male, born and raised in Brooklyn, NY, now living in Fresno,CA, the gold buckle of the California homophobic bible belt. I'm a registered Democrat in a largely Rebublican city. I peer counsel other hiv positive people as a volunteer, and I serve on a committee which helps determine how Ryan White Title funds are distributed in the county.

As a gay man, I can make a gay joke. Overly sensitive hetero males will have to keep their peace, just as white folks everywhere need to keep their peace when black comics and rappers use the "n" word.


These are the things that offend me about Gannongate:

1.) This jerk is a "Roy Cohn" type, self-hating gay male that collaborates with the current administration. He is akin to the gay men in Berlin of the 20's and 30's who embraced Hitler's politics.

2.) If blackmail is the reason, who is being extorted? The mainstream press is already toeing the Bush line, as evidenced by the mainstream press stories that have been published to date. No one seems overly concerned about Jeff Gannon. So, who's the real target of this blackmail?

3.) The military, with its "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy toward gays in the military, has kept silent about a manwhore in the White House selling himself as a "military stud." Where is the outrage from Rumsfeld?

4.) Law-abiding gay and lesbian couples can't marry, but a lying male prostitute gets carte blanche in the White House press room? Even a passionate hug from the Commander-In-Chief?

5.) HIV funding, Medicaid funding, and Social Security benefits are all in jeopardy presently, but no one in the GOP has a problem with a $200 an hour male prostitute posing as a reporter?

6.) The torture reports from Abu Graib shows soldiers placing prisoners in "homosexual" poses to embarrass them. I'm offended that gay sex is used as torture in Iraq, but sold to any gay Republican who can afford the going rate.

The Christian Right, the GOP, and the Armed Forces need to have their collective feet held to the fire about Jeff Gannon. I've given up hope that the MSM will give any more attention to this.

I am not worried about any gay backlash. These hypocrites must be exposed, and if it takes an unholy alliance with the Christian Right to do it, then so be it. If a blowjob in the Oval Office can bring the country to a screeching halt, then a gay hooker in the White House press room should topple a regime.

[crispini]

46. Welcome to DU, fresnobill314!

:hi:

Thoughtful, well-written post. Thanks!

[merh]

50. Welcome to DU, fresnobill314!

:hi: and thank you for the thoughtful post.

I am grateful you choose to join us! I hope you make yourself right at home.

(ps: thanks for the volunteer work you do. :hug:)

[ultraist]

51. Thank you for your comments!

I'm not male, but no matter! I see you are new here, welcome! :hi:

I made that comment because there has been an excessive amount of *puns* *jokes* and snide remarks from heteros about gay sex here lately. When people are going so far to say things like, 'what a disgusting visual' or 'next comes HIV' we know things have gone too far.

A gay poster posted that it is getting out of hand and was told they were being 'overly senstive' and told to 'shut up and stop whining' as well as called a troll. It seems that some heteros have these attitudes so ingrained in their thought processes that are not aware of the discriminatory message they are sending out.

I understand the points about the homophobic WH and I appreciate your insights on this. My point is that some heteros are using this as an excuse to mock gay sex in general. Please read my post further up the thread on this.

Again, thanks and welcome!

[fresnobill314]

56. Thank you for welcoming me.

I am truly aware of all the gay jokes out there on Gannongate. I'll put up with them if this story can help remove the current Fuhrer from the Reichstaad. The problem with getting rid of Bush is that we also have to get rid of Cheney, Hastert, Frist, and Delay. How far down is Hillary on succession list?

[Karenina]

77. YOU are all that and a bag o' chips!

SLAM DUNK POSTS!!! :toast: I keep getting these bells and whistles going off in my head about Clinton's "FIRST BIG MISTAKE IN OFFICE" (it was in ALL the papers and on TV too- what an uproar... ;-) ) in his attempt to strip away the *stigma* of GAY PEOPLE IN THE MILITARY. Things that make ya go hmmmm....

Frankly, I think the fascists-engaged-in-closeted-same-sex-debauchery should rather be referred to as "RoyCohns" than gay. They are NOT "gay" in any traditional sense. They're fucked-up psychopaths drunk on POWER, kinda like rapists. It's NOT about the "sex," it's a twisted perversion of power that draws its forbidden appeal from what I'd define at this point as a GOVERNMENT SPONSORED AND NURTURED societal taboo.

[ultraist]

81. excellent points Karenina!

The fact is, most of the homosexual witch hunters are not Gay. The few that are, have become self hating due to society's punitive and violent attitudes towards homosexuals.

As you noted, the few famous homosexual witch hunters, like Roy Cohn, were driven by power and status. By engaging in punishing homosexuals, they could claim that they were acting out of high morality.

All witch hunts are rooted in a group's false sense of superiority over the hunted group. The drive to weed out the immoral is fueled by the self righteous hunters' justification that they are acting out of the highest moral order.

The identifed group we are seeing around here lately are the "homophobic Gay Republicans." People need to keep in mind as they engage in their witch hunt against "homophobic Gay Republicans," that hate and social violence accompany witch hunts. People may feel justified morally, as these people are "hypocrites" but the question should be raised, is it moral to launch a witch hunt based on homosexuality? Do they really want to go there?

Outting one person who was caught in a crime is one thing, a witch hunt is something altogether different.

[saracat]

52. Thank you Fresnobill314

And welcome to DU! Great post!

[karlrschneider]

54. Welcome to DU Fresnobill!

:toast:

You've probably been reading us long enough to know some of us aren't exactly candidates for diplomatic posts ;-)

Sure, there are a few homophobes just as there will inevitable be a few in any community this big but non illegitimus carborundum, as they say.
Hope your health continues to be good.

[ultraist]

59. Nice...

If that was a sideways attempt to call me a homophobe, please read my posts further up. Being a hetero female, I'm keen to hetero code speak. This is what I and others have been trying to point out.

Some of these *jokes* about gay sex are homophobic as they are used just as excuses for heteros to mock gay sex. It is not appropriate to say things such as: "first comes love, ...next comes HIV" or "the visual is disgusting."

If you haven't noticed an excessive amount of *puns* and *jokes* about gay sex made by heteros, cruise through the Gannon threads. I am not the only one who has noticed this. Some Gay posters have been bringing this up since the Gannon story broke.

[markmalcom]

79. ...I think we're being a little too

sensitive here...tell me...as a hetero female are you as offended at the frequency with which sexist slurs are used - here and other places - as "all-purpose insults"..e.g. "douche bag"..or so and so is (someone's) "bitch"?....I think you should be. But I've seen women make the objection and watched them shouted down by many men of whatever orientation and even some - IMHO opinion, clueless females.

[ultraist]

82. "A little Senstive?"

I think the people who haven't NOTICED and the people who are making hateful remarks about Gays (cloaked in *puns*) and/or the "out the hypocrites" witchhunters are cluelesss and insensitive.

We aren't seeing a witchhunt against women right now, are we? We are seeing a witch hunt against homosexuals who are homophobic.

If we were seeing a witch hunt against women, I'd say the same thing. It's a sick, cultish, groupthink, hateful mentality that perpetuates violence.

I'm not saying everyone here is engaging in a witch hunt by any means, but there is a group of heteros who are. Look around, read some posts by others who have noticed it.

Here are a few examples off the top of my head, but if you look around, you will find a lot of bizarre remarks:

"first comes love....then comes HIV"
"Ack" (in reference to gay sex)
"too much info" (in reference to gay sex)
'bad visual' (in reference to gay sex)
'sissy boys'
'dressing up like the Village people'
'walking like a cowboy whose been fucked up the ass'

Mind you, these are remarks by heterosexuals. Seems to me, they are using this as an excuse to engage in a big mock session of Gay sex. Which we know of course is "disgusting."

Now the witch hunt aspect:

Is Rove Gay?
Is Williams Gay?
Is Rush Gay?
Is Bush Gay?
Is Scott Gay?
Is Ari Gay?
Is Cooper Gay?

'We heteros have a moral duty to out these homophobic GAY Republicans because they are hypocrites. Let's obsess on what Repubs are Gay, hunt all these Gays down, and take em out.'

[markmalcom]

88. ...I beg to differ...I think there is and has been

a "witchhunt" against women since time immemorial...In fact I think that one of the reasons homosexuals are persecuted is that they're perceived as being - in one way or another "like women"....Certainly I'm against Homophobia, but it doesn't take much to notice, that gender slurs like the one's I've mentioned, are used ALL the TIME!....and I rarely see any soul-searching rants about THAT!..,.just seems ironic, that's all.

[tx_dem41]

91. So what's your point....because there is a "witchunt against women"..

(of which Ultraist has not disputed the existence), thus, there can't be such a thing as a "witchhunt against gays". That makes no sense!

[markmalcom]

92. I never said there wasn't a witchunt against Gays...but I don't think

there's one on the DU...at least not on this thread.

[tx_dem41]

94. And, you base that somehow on the fact that there is woman-bashing..

on DU? :shrug:

[ultraist]

93. I never said in all of history, I said RIGHT NOW ON DU

Seeing as you have few posts, maybe you haven't been around this past week to see what I am talking about.

How funny that a male attempts to explain to a female, that he is more sensitive to misogyny. Nice try dude.

I'm well aware of the history of misogyny, which in our culture is rooted in the Bible.

That's not the issue I was discussing, I was referring to something that is occuring HERE,RIGHT now, in response to the Gannon story by some DUers.

If you'd like to discuss discrimination against women and the history thereof, start another thread.

[markmalcom]

97. ....Ultraist, haven't' you read any of FresnoBill's posts?...He doesn't

have many posts either, but he doesn't seem to be strung out about anything and I've noticed that his posts seem to be garnering a lot more support than either yours or TX_Dem41's ..Frankly, the two of you seem to be either angry and/ or vying for the role of Chief of PC Police ..I'm simply not interested in fighting...Have a nice day - I'm outa here.


P.S. Who says I'm a guy?

[ultraist]

98. I assumed you were a guy MARK, by your name.

Yes, someone who is new stated that they would "put up" with the gay jokes if that's what it takes. Many others who have been here longer and have seen more posts, have made the same comments about this that I have. I was not the first to notice this.

Later

[truth2power]

57. Excellent post, Fresnobill! One question, though.

Your #4. Earlier today, the picture of Bush hugging someone, was determined not to be Guckert, I think.

[fresnobill314]

58. My bad.

OK, so the photo wasn't of Guckert. Still and all, Dubya has a penchant for rubbing hairless heads. (Again, pardon the pun.)

[truth2power]

68. No problem. Just didn't want the freeptards nailing us on that one.

:-)

[GodHelpUsAll2]

63. Bravo

Welcome. And by the way, I like your attitude. Especially when you said "if it takes an unholy alliance with the Christian right to do it, then so be it." I am all for whatever it takes to stop the madness. And I especially like using their own pawns to do it.

[Tsiyu]

75. Great post, fresnobill314

If Bill Bennett was found to be addicted to gambling ( while lamenting the vices of others), if Rush Limbaugh was known to be a drug addict ( while condemning the vices of others), if O'Liely was found to be a pervert sexually harrassing his female staff ( while ranting about "family values") it would be called HYPOCRISY.

That's the issue here for me. The truth is, being gay has nothing to do with one's morality, competence or decency as a human being. WE all have value.

But when you get paid by an organization which claims that "all gays are doomed to hell, vile, sinners, destroying the fabric of America, corrupting our kids, blah freakin' blah" you'd damned well better not be gay yourself. Suppose REv. Jesse Jackson joined the Klan? Same concept.

Guckgan is either a motherfucker who would murder his own mama for a dime or he's a shrewd homosexual helping us bring down the White House.

And this administration had best explain why they were all about this Guckgan dude. If they are "against homosexuality" as their fervently homophobic supporters believed when they voted for *. they need to explain to their supporters why this one gay man is an exception to their hate.

[Lorien]

86. Amen and welcome to DU!

There are a lot of "self hating" people connected with BushCo; Condi Rice, Ann Coulter, Scott McClellan, Matt Drudge, Judith Miller and now "Gannon". The hypocrisy MUST be exposed!

[Hissyspit]

44. People: Every angle of this story is the story.

Lying. Blackmail. Hypocrisy. Propaganda. Plant. Plame. And The Fact That There ARE All These Angles.

[truth2power]

47. "Hooker angle.....is the story."

It's the thread, actually, that's going to unravel everything else. :evilgrin:

[no safe haven]

48. The blackmail angle

OK, so Gannon/Guckert sets up a website for military men. Why such a specific and limited target? Inside information coming out of the WH is not the only payoff here. Remember back in the days when there were Pentagon generals who advised ** against going into Iraq? What happened to them? Could it be that our friend G/G was using blackmail to silence the dissident military brass who opposed the Iraq War?

[Sterling]

62. good post

nt

[fresnobill314]

64. And now, Ladies and Gentlemen, the $64,000 question....

Both "prostitution" and "soliciting a prostitute" are criminal acts.

When is this Guckert creep going to be arrested for prostitution?

[fresnobill314]

67. ON WHAT PLANET IS PROSTITUTION LEGAL?

Am I the only one asking why this guy hasn't been arrested yet? Or, is it that I have an uncanny grasp of the obvious?

[DARE to HOPE]

70. No, you are right, fresnobill--

I am also stuck on the idea that Rumsfeld has not made a stink about this guy raiding the young military men in DC as well. What hypocrisy!

I rather think that Wayne Madsen is on to the underside of all of this:

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Media/021805Madsen/021805madsen.html

[Octafish]

71. Gannongate runs back to Franklin Bank scandal...

It isn't called the Bush Family Evil Empire for nothing.

Gannongate threatens to expose a huge GOP pedophile and male prostitution ring

By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer

February 18, 2005—Now that is has been discovered that "Jeff Gannon" (real name James D. Guckert), a "reporter" for Talon News Service, a front operation run by the conservative Republican-oriented GOPUSA.com, was using an alias as a cleared White House reporter, details are emerging that threaten to immerse the Bush administration in a major scandal.

"Gannongate," which is only now being mentioned by the mainstream news media, threatens to expose a potentially damaging GOP pedophile and male prostitution ring dating back to the 1980s and the administration of George H. W. Bush. James D. Guckert, using the name Jeff Gannon and possibly other aliases, was also running gay porn sites, one with a U.S. Marine Corps theme that solicited males for prostitution.

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said he did not realize Gannon was using an alias until recently. However, rumors in the gay community are circulating about McClellan frequenting gay bars in Austin, Texas.

Gannon bypassed established Secret Service security controls, including a background check requiring a social security number, to obtain a White House press pass that identified him by an alias, an action seen by many seasoned Washington journalists as only being possible if he had favorable treatment from White House staff, especially McClellan and his predecessor, Ari Fleischer. One White House reporter expressed revulsion over the fact that it was Fleischer who took away press credentials from the late long-time White House correspondent Sarah McClendon and handed them to Gannon.

CONTINUED...

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Media/021805Madsen/021805madsen.html

But wait, it really does get worse for the traitors...

The Franklin Coverup Scandal

http://www.thelawparty.com/FranklinCoverup/franklin.htm

PS: Thanks for the heads-up on Masden's article, DARE to HOPE.

[Chicago Democrat]

76. In Chicago, Male prostitution is not prosecuted. But Johns who hurt

them are.

That the way it should be. Its a service.

[jumptheshadow]

69. He had inside access for some reason...

other than the fact that he was with a right-wing website.

How many closet cases are there in this gay-bashing White House? When Chimpie isn't sashaying around like Truman Capote, or preening over his fey little dog, he's dressing like the guys in the Village People. I'm still waiting for him to do the Indian and the motorcycle guy.

[Octafish]

78. J Edgar Hoover couldn't find the mafia.

Because the mafia found the pics of Hoover and Clyde Tolson in flagrante delicto.


J. Edgar Hoover and The Farm

by Albert Bates

EXCERPT...

Hoover's own life was a curious contradiction. (Slide) A transdressing homosexual, he was seriously compromised and blackmailed by figures as diverse as Roy Cohn and Santo Trafficante. He had a gambling addiction. He spent federal money lavishly for his personal needs. He kept records of illegal FBI activities out of the bureau central records system by using file categories like "Do Not File," "Official and Confidential," "Personal and Confidential," "June Mail," and "Obscene," over which he had sole control. In turn, he was controlled almost completely by organized crime and others who possessed pictures of Hoover, in drag and in flagrante delicto with his long time aide, Clyde Tolson. (Slide) Tolson, like Hoover had a solitary love affair in his youth, and was engaged to be married. The girl went away to work at a summer resort and came back pregnant by another man. Tolson never got over the humiliation.5

New York powerbroker Roy Cohn (Slide) used his leverage over Hoover to make Mary Cohn's nickname for Edgar (his private sex slave.) At a private party in Cohn's townhouse, Mary, dressed in a black garter belt, had one underaged male lover read to him from the Bible, while another engaged him in a sex act, as Cohn's partygoers looked on.

At about the same time, Hoover and Tolson asked the Senate Subcommittee on Supplemental Appropriations, in closed session, for $14.5 million to add 1000 new agents to monitor liberation theologists.

It is not surprising, given this background, that one of the first documents reaching Hoover's desk concerning Stephen Gaskin was an interview in Mademoiselle in which Stephen described his complex marriage with one man and two women.

CONTINUED...

http://www.thefarm.org/lifestyle/akbp3.html