As a progressive, I've grown to despise Dem bashers

[CatWoman]

enough is enough.

Oh yeah -- with the exception of Lieberman and Zell Miller.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

1. I'm really getting sick of this shit too

I am getting sick of all these paranoid rantings and unsubstantiated attacks on Kerry-and all the other candidates as well. As I said on another thread, anyone taking a cursory glance at DU would more than likely come away with the opinion that this board is dominated by childish infighting and demented conspiracies.

[diplomats]

The conspiracy theorists here remind me of some on the other side

I'm afraid to say. Someone here actually said Clinton's a part of the VRWC. Huh??? And who cares if Kerry was in Skull & Bones?

[chadm]

33. We care about Skull & Bones

becuase we care about Democracy. We want a choice that extends beyond one elite secret society. Just that, nothing important.

[FlashHarry]

40. S&B Is Meaningless

Give it a rest! If you exclude qualified candidates for things they did 30 years ago, you'll end up with a 2-term Bush in the WH!

Get this: you won't find the perfect candidate! Those who most want to govern are often the least qualified. We get the best we can.

[GreenArrow]

72. "Those who most want to govern

are often the least qualified. We get the best we can."

A sad truth...we're screwed coming and going.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

43. Skull & Bones is like a fraternity

At Harvard and Princeton there are similar clubs. Despite their membership (the wealthy elite of the country), I don't think they're especially sinister. these rich kids make future business and political contacts through these organizations, just like you made friends in high school and college.

[birdman]

60. The secret society that rules the world

I mean it's just like so fucking sinister.

[Wetzelbill]

24. Oh hellz yeah!

[chadm]

32. I'm sick of everyone being sick of shit

Perhaps its time to log off when you feel this way.

[library_max]

55. Yes, by all means,

Let's leave the boards to the whackos who rightfully own them!

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[ShaneGR]

2. Most of them are just disruptors, some are just misguided

Unfortunately.

[ulysses]

3. now see...

Oh yeah -- with the exception of Lieberman and Zell Miller.

Joe and Zell are gateway drugs - you've started down the slippery slope already!

[CatWoman]

5. LOL!!!

basically I was referring to the "I hate Bill Clinton" thread.

I'm surprised he wasn't referred to as "Clintoon".

:hi:

[diplomats]

8. Hey, CatWoman

it's Klintoon :evilgrin:

[ulysses]

9. I know

I just posted in agreement to that thread. :scared:

Clinton isn't the antichrist, but he *is* the reason I voted for you-know-who the first time in '96...

[diplomats]

14. I hope you don't vote for you-know-who in 2004

We need to get rid of Bush! :)

[ulysses]

16. not planning on it

but not ruling it out either.

[buff2]

49. Not ruling out voting for BU$H????

Geesus......:wtf: is THAT all about???

[ulysses]

56. no.

Not ruling out voting third party.

[Forkboy]

71. Hey...thats the same thing!

Geez...didn't you get the memo?

:)

[ulysses]

78. I was waiting for that

Should've known it would be from you...:D

[CatWoman]

80. hey!!!!

you leave Forkboy alone!!!!!! :D

Didn't you know he is a wise ass?? :D

[Forkboy]

81. You tell him CatWoman!!

I even listed wise-assery as my hobby in my profile.I simply can't control myself :shrug:

[Trajan]

54. What ? ....

NOT ruling out voting for Bush ? ....

GEEEEEEEZ ! ....

What kind of SUPER-progressive votes for the ANTI-Progressive as a protest against perceived MODERATE-progressivism ? .....

I swear: ... this shit is obnoxious ....

[ulysses]

57. see #56

[CatWoman]

17. yeah!!!

[no name no slogan]

22. got your back ulysses

Clinton did more to drive away progressive sympathizers to the Democrats than Newt Gingrich did. His record is Rockefeller Republican, but he's lionized by the Dems because he was persecuted so badly by the VRWC.

Clinton never won a majority of the popular vote in either of his runs. I think that says quite a bit about why the Dems shouldn't abolish their liberal base.

[CatWoman]

27. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Better his back than his front :evilgrin:

[ulysses]

30. and just what

is THAT supposed to mean? :spank:

[CatWoman]

34. ROFL!!!!

I was wondering how long it would take for you to catch that :D

:loveya:

[ulysses]

41. I have a perfectly servicable front, tyvm.

:silly:

[Iverson]

66. ROTLMAOWCUB

n/t

[MoonAndSun]

4. I'm with you Catwoman, and to think we still have several more months

of this stuff to deal with before the first primaries. Can we make it without tearing each other apart?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller

So, you are sick of your favorite Democrats being bashed, but you still want to bash your least favorite Democrats. There is a word to describe this attitude, I'm trying to remember it.

[CatWoman]

7. GASP!!!!

Joe and Zell are democrats???

who the fuck would have known!!! :silly:

And the next time I want to dislike someone, I'll make sure to get your permission first.

Especially people who serve the Republican party so well, while trying to tell me they are here for MY party.

[diplomats]

12. I think Joe's voting record

is quite a bit better than Zell's, actually. Zell voted for those stupid Bush tax cuts, and Joe didn't, for example.

[LynneSin]

25. Joe votes for choice, pro-environment and supports dem filibusters...

against right-wing judges.

I sure as hell don't want him as my president, but I still prefer him on my team and not theirs.

[IrateCitizen]

45. As well as killing accounting reforms, voting for stock options...

... and absolute warmongering.

While I don't dispute the examples you're produced, Lynne, I tend to think that overall he does the Democratic (and progressive) cause a helluva lot more harm than good.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

13. yep, you could ask the same about Dean

With his years as a Rockefeller Republican governor, it's difficult to tell which party he governed for, his latest poll-driven speeches notwithstanding.

[CatWoman]

15. I know nothing of which you speak

I just know that Dean is against this illegal invasion, and so am I.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

19. a one issue voter?

I get it. You're sick of Dem bashing, except for the ones that vote against your one issue.

I think I remembered that word.

[CatWoman]

20. whatever --

why don't you busy yourself counting votes.

You stick to your issue(s) and I'll stick to mine.

and say :hi: to Joe and Zell.

[no name no slogan]

28. No offense intended,

but Dean was in favor of invading Afghanistan. He also supported the first Gulf War, which got our former ally bin Laden so pissed off he decided to crash a few planes into the WTC and Pentagon and kill a few thousand people. You reap what you sow.

(OT love the cat pictures. How many cats do you have?)

NNNS

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

35. sssh! You're interrupting the Dean trance

You know, "Dean makes me feel so goooood with his anti-one-war speeches" !!

[CatWoman]

38. you are thoroughly misrepresenting me and my views

go count some fucking votes.

I used the war stance as one example, and you try to spin me into that "one issue" category. you jumped on that like stink on an onion. I don't have to rationalize my views to you.

What we have here is a failure to communicate.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

68. I wasn't addressing you

Are you always so rude and foul-mouthed?

"busy yourself counting votes" - "go count some fucking votes"

You started a thread against Dem bashing, and proceeded to bash Dems, and now you're upset that someone called you on it? Pot, meet kettle.

Main Entry: hyp·o·crite
Pronunciation: 'hi-p&-"krit
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ypocrite, from Old French, from Late Latin hypocrita, from Greek hypokritEs actor, hypocrite, from hypokrinesthai
Date: 13th century
: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
- hypocrite adjective

[CatWoman]

70. no, i'm not always rude and foul mouthed

just 90% of the time.

And I WAS addressing you.

[StopTheMorans]

10. they're DINO's WCTV

they're not really Democrats. It's a fine line, but it's there. Noone else comes close to these two GOP enablers.

[chadm]

11. The only way Dems would ever change

is if the Progressives bash them for not being Progressive.

[Trajan]

67. Explain how ...

ANYONE here is ANTI-progressive .....

Clinton, in all his shame, ... was STILL a progressive ....

Hell: ... ROCKEFELLER was a damned progressive ! ....

There are VARYING degrees of any political philosophy: .. thats the GREAT thing about FREEDOM ! ... NO one has to toe the line with ABSOLUTE creedal adherence ....

From the Steve Kangas website "Liberal Resurgent": ... http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/glossaryoq.htm

Progressive: 1) A person who believes in the doctrine of change and progress, especially as led by science. Used colloquially to refer to the very liberal. 2) A member of the U.S. Progressive Movement between 1890 and 1920, which is also known as the Progressive Era. This movement is responsible for introducing the campaign primary in many states (replacing caucuses), the initiative, the referendum, and the recall, among other reforms.

We can also add such policy implementations as: Public Education, Child Labor Laws, Workmans Compensation, various Anti-trust Acts, Banking and Securities Acts, the Food and Drug Act, the Meat Inspection Act, the Social Security Act, the Rural Electrification Act, the Public Utilities Holding Company Act, .....

(Wow ..... and SOME say the 'liberal agenda' is a failure: .. its a complete and unmitigated success) ...

So: ... tell me: .... WHO in this forum denies ANY so-called 'progressive' policies that have formed the platform of
Historical Progressivism ? .....

The FACT that Clinton made war against a vicious tyrant who was actively executing a policy of genocide is NOT cause to deny his progressive bona fides .... JUST as there is not cause to deny your fellow DUers some decent respect as "Progressives" simply because they might not embrace EVERY possible 'progressive' idea that may come along .....

We here at DU are BELIEVERS of academic Progressivism, not fanatics of it, ... but CERTAINLY believers ..... and adherents ....

Cut us some fucking SLACK here ...... damnit ....

[VermontDem2004]

18. Clinton was a great President

and my mom benefited from many programs Clinton got through including FMLA which I thank him for.

http://www.perkel.com/politics/clinton/accomp.htm

[MoonAndSun]

29. I know many people, especially women, benefitted greatly from FMLA,

and even though Bill had his faults, he was still a very good president.

I will always be thankful he was our president for 8 very good years.

[catpower2000]

21. Well, near as I can tell, Lieberman and Miller are both Republicans...

so you're okay there. :)

Cat

[CatWoman]

26. Better watch out for agreeing with me

WhoCountsTheVotes won't like that!!!!

[catpower2000]

48. LOL...

I often agree with you. :)

edit: and for all WCTV's screaming about ABB, his sig line's awfully divisive, ain't it? ;-)

[IrateCitizen]

50. Hey Cat -- would you vote for either of them over Kucinich?

:evilgrin:

[catpower2000]

53. I would not vote for any of the three of them..other than that, I'm ABB nt

[CatWoman]

61. I don't mind Kucinich

as much as a certain poster would like to peg me as ALL-THE-WAY-DEAN, the fact is, I actually have always leaned towards Kerry.

My thing is, I want someone who can win.

If Kucinich is that man, so be it.

Same for Kerry, Dean, Clark, etc.

But NO Lieberman.

[Seneca]

65. what about dese bashers?

If you don't like dem bashers over there, you can bash dese bashers! :D

[CatWoman]

74. you ain't seen shit yet

check out Psychoblue's al sharpton+fried chicken+watermelon thread :D

[mitchum]

23. Zell's voting record makes Joe seem like a progressive...

mindboggling and sad

[chookie]

31. Gee, if they think Clinton/Kerry/Dean/Kucinich/etc is bad...

...WAIT till they wake up and finally take a look at Bush, and the disastrous effects his radical policies are having on our nation and the world RIGHT NOW! Boy, just think how angry they're be then!!

Gotta laugh at these goonie loonies -- they are about as out of touch with current realities as Bush himself is. They are more concerned with ideological purity than they are with whether the house is on fire or not.

(Thanks, CatWoman!!)

[DemExpat]

37. Gotta agree with you, Chookie,

The hatred many progressives have for Clinton, Kerry, Clark, Dean, etc. totally matches frothing right-wing hatred, doesn't it?

Go, fabulous, fallible DEMS!

:kick: :kick: :kick:

DemEx

[JohnKleeb]

42. ummm I am a progressive who doesnt have much hate for any of them

Clinton- I didnt like NAFTA one bit but I am proud to defend him against right wingers who make bull stories about him.
Kerry- Why would I have much hatred for a man who votes with Teddy Kennedy 94% of the time, granted the IWR vote I didnt like but damnit hes a liberal senator who imo gets a bad rap.
Clark- Now dont flame me on this I opposed the war he commanded but I respect veterans and the like, just my point.
Dean- What he has done is breathtakingly amazing but I wont support him just because hes popular now.

JK

[Kathy in Cambridge]

47. You are more mature, John

than a lot of the posters who have decades on you. At least you have perspective, which is more than I can say for a lot of folks around here lately.

[JohnKleeb]

52. I dunno

I get mad as anyone believe me RR, its like being stung in the heart when you hear your candiate cant win etc and the like, I could be a jerk but I choose not to be I think that goes for most, I am not that confrontial at least here, I like to think I try, and I think I do ok because I gotten good praise mostly. Perspective? Ive heard that word but could you explain it lol. The youngster in me lol just wonders.

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

36. bartcop bashes s[ineless DEMs . So do I. How about that ?

When your own party members in Congress
continually kiss the arse of the right-wing PNAC's
White House war puppet --

WELL THOSE SPINELESS DEMs NEED AN ATTITUDE
ADJUSTMNENT !!!

If you can not depend on your own Democrats in Congress,
are you supposed to just ignore it ?

HELL NO !

[ulysses]

39. pfffft to bartcop

Bash spineless Dems but rejoice when DU banned some folks who had the gall to do something about it at the ballot box?

Raspberries to you, bart.

[CatWoman]

44. huh?

who got banned for what now????

[ulysses]

46. last October. n/t

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

51. I try to distinguish necessary muckraking from SMUTraking

I think it is good to hold a candidate's feet to the fire in order that they might realize they are NOT guaranteed your vote unless they earn it.

I DO think people talk principles and beliefs versus reality at their own peril at times.

I have a belief that God will save me. I jumped from a ledge with that belief firmly in mind, broke all my bones and am posting in a body cast.

I have a belief that Einstein was a genius. He said if he moved his finger at a 45 degree angle, the entire universe and every molecule in it moved. I tried this with the car in front of me on the freeway this morning. THe fucker is now suing me to fix his fucking bumper.

All I am saying is that we tread a fine line between operating in accordance with our standards and ideals, and the reality of those ideals in practice.

[sangh0]

58. Then get ready. The Deanie-weenies are about to attack Pelosi

over a rumor

[VermontDem2004]

75. I love the nicknames

we get tagged with. Why can't dems respect each other to a point?

[Brian Sweat]

59. As a dog lover, I've grown to despise cats.

Ok, I don't really hate cats. I just wanted to piss you off. :silly:

[CatWoman]

62. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

bet my cats can kick your dog's ass :D

[Iverson]

63. bashing vs. criticism

I agree, with the following qualifier: some do not distinguish between legitimate criticism and bashing. Bashing is reflexive. Legitimate criticism will offer context or support or both, and usually with some kind of constructive warrant (e.g.- we are trying to achieve a better world.).

Meow and purr.

[CatWoman]

64. Purr and ditto

:D

[blm]

69. I'm a socialist who sees no benefit from bashing Dems.

It's like trying to poison the only bodies standing between fascism and democracy.

[Forkboy]

73. well damn

now what do I do? :shrug:

[Skittles]

76. LOL!

You excepted the two "Democrats" I do bash. :D

[gully]

77. HERE HERE!!!!

Paul Wellstone (DEMOCRAT!)

[VOX]

79. You tell 'em, CatWoman!!!

Agree 100%. Although I reserve my right to swing away at Lieberman!

:toast: