Kerry proposes 40,000 more troops, as Democrats back Bush war spending

[RBHam]

by Patrick martin
wsws.org
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/feb2005/kerr-f19.shtml
excerpt:
Kerry’s position demonstrates the folly of any belief that the election of the Democratic candidate last November would have in any significant way changed US policy in Iraq, let alone brought a speedy end to the war. The Democratic Party, like the Republican, is an imperialist party committed to defend the worldwide interests of the American ruling elite. Central to these interests is establishing US hegemonic control over the oil resources of the Middle East and Central Asia, the real motive for the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq and the steady buildup of American military power throughout the region.

[Placebo]

1. Pulling out of there right now...

would do more harm than good, sad to say.

And I think many start throwing the word "imperialist" around haphazardly whenever it's mentioned that the US does business outside its borders. :eyes:

[Maple]

2. Funny, they said that

about Vietnam too.

[sandnsea]

18. Funny

Nobody ever wants to talk about what happened in Vietnam after 1975.

Jacqueline Desbarats and Karl Jackson ("Vietnam 1975-1982: The Cruel Peace", in The Washington Quarterly, Fall 1985) estimated that there had been around 65,000 executions. This number is repeated in the Sept. 1985 Dept. of State Bulletin article on Vietnam.
Orange County Register (29 April 2001): 1 million sent to camps and 165,000 died.
Northwest Asian Weekly (5 July 1996): 150,000-175,000 camp prisoners unaccounted for.
Estimates for the number of Boat People who died:
Elizabeth Becker (When the War Was Over, 1986) cites the UN High Commissioner on Refugees: 250,000 boat people died at sea; 929,600 reached asylum
The 20 July 1986 San Diego Union-Tribune cites the UN Refugee Commission: 200,000 to 250,000 boat people had died at sea since 1975.
The 3 Aug. 1979 Washington Post cites the Australian immigration minister's estimate that 200,000 refugees had died at sea since 1975.
Also: "Some estimates have said that around half of those who set out do not survive."
The 1991 Information Please Almanac cites unspecified "US Officials" that 100,000 boat people died fleeing Vietnam.
Encarta estimates that 0.5M fled, and 10-15% died, for a death toll of 50-75,000.
Nayan Chanda, Brother Enemy (1986): ¼M Chinese refugees in two years, 30,000 to 40,000 of whom died at sea. (These numbers also repeated by Marilyn Young, The Vietnam Wars: 1945-1990 (1991))
Rummel
Vietnamese democide: 1,040,000 (1975-87)
Executions: 100,000
Camp Deaths: 95,000
Forced Labor: 48,000
Democides in Cambodia: 460,000
Democides in Laos: 87,000
Boat People: 500,000 deaths (50% not blamed on the Vietnamese govt.)
ANALYSIS: I'd say the most likely total would be 430,000. That's 65,000 executions + 165,000 camp deaths + 200,000 boat people. It's unlikely that VN alone caused 460+87T democides in Cambodia + Laos since estimates of the total deaths in these conflicts only run to a half million or so.

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat3.htm

[Placebo]

22. Unlike Vietnam, it's true for Iraq.

Talk about thinking in black & white, sheesh.

[Dr Ron]

35. Agree--Not same as Vietnam

Vietnam was a poor analogy.

Our stay in Vietnam was several years, and looked like there was no end. Kerry has discussed leaving in 6-12 months. His plans are definately aimed towards gettilng out.

We had very little to lose by leaving Vietnam. We have real interests in the middlea east. Unfortunatley, the lies told by Bush prior to the war regarding Iraq being connected to al Qaeda will turn out to be true thanks to Bush's reckless foreign policy moves.

[The Zanti Regent]

3. Once a Bonesman, always a Bonesman.

The best thing Kerry can do is stand down and not run for anything else.

This only reinforces my belief that Kerry made a Bonesman deal with Bush to go to war, and guarantee Bush's election. Kerry laid down and died just like a good Bonesman should, and his Bilderberger pal Edwards did nothing to stop him.

Meanwhile my son, my only child, has permanent residence in a VA cemetery plot, only 19 and his life is over. For me? The rest of my life I will damn myself for not working harder for Dean...

[DefenseLawyer]

9. Terribly sad about the loss of your son.

Did he enlist before the war?

[RBHam]

11. sorry for your loss...

i can't imagine the rage you must feel towards these cold, calculating bastards in washington...

[KlatooBNikto]

12. I am very sorry to learn of your loss, Zanti. It is not just you, all of

us have a moral obligation to fight the DINOs in our midst so that we can save our children from these peas in a pod politicians.

[ultraist]

13. for Zanti Regent

:hug:

[ladjf]

17. My sympathy for the terrible loss. And my concurrence with

your assessment of the Kerry and Edwards. The "Bones" couldn't have lost the election.

[sarahlee]

31. My heart goes out to you. You might be interested in...

'Stop the War' Campaign
Democracy Rising seeks to Bring the Troops Home, End the Occupation by Empowering Activists across the Nation

http://democracyrising.us/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/

[Vektor]

59. They did not know each other at Yale -

and they were KIDS when they were asked to join the equivalent of a glee club. They were two years apart at school, and never met on campus.

It's irrelevant now, and has no bearing on current politics.

While it's tragic that any soldier should die in any war, and my sympathies to any family that has lost a loved one, Kerry is not directly responsible for anyone's death.

Best concentrate one's energies on fighting the real enemy - not the ones who are trying to rebuild Iraq - a necessary task, but those who mislead congress and the American people into believing we needed to go there in the first place.

In other words, BUSHCO. A man who never served sends others to die for oil - he's the one who warrants our rancor. He's the one getting our soldiers killed.

In what branch did your son serve?

[ultraist]

61. Yes, Kerry is somewhat responsible, he voted FOR the war

We all have some blood on our hands if we pay taxes. Kerry made a big mistake with that vote, why candy coat it?

Trying to "rebuild Iraq is a necessary task?" Why doesn't the US pay the Iraqis to do it and let them make the profit instead of Haliburton? The Iraqis are pissed off about this. They want the US OUT.

We are not "rebuilding Iraq," we are OCCUPYING Iraq. Let's not glorify it. We are NOT doing anything honorable over there. We are murdering their people and putting our soldiers in harms way unnecessarily.

BTW, Kerry said he would withdraw 40,000 troops within the first six months if he became President and now he is supporting sending over 40,000 more troops. Is this a flip flop?

[Vektor]

68. I don't know, is this free republic?

This is still hardly the same as being directly responsible. Let's not reach here, m'kay? Flip flop, my ass... Oh and "glorifying the occupation?" Nice try. You're right, we should just level the country, leave it in ruins, and walk away while the cities burn

GOOD IDEA.

This whole entire thread is one giant whining scapegoating bunch of bullshit. Right, it's ALWAYS KERRY'S FAULT. He single handedly mowed down thousands of people with his own weapon, and laid waste to the Iraqi landscape with his giant, destructive, pendulous, swinging liberal wang, which by the way, sports a tattoo that innocuously reads "KANE" - but when fully engorged bares the telling phrase:

SKULL AND BONES!!!!

BWAAA-HAAHAHAHAHA

Ah - oh, right - I was angry.

I am so tired of the Rush Limpball rhetoric. It needs to stop. I don't buy it, and I really have better things to do than play pin the blame on the Democrat.

Who would like some cheese with their whine?

[Hippo_Tron]

72. Disagree 'bout the bonesman part, BUT...

My deepest condolences to you for the loss of your son. I also think that you should speak your mind even if that does involve criticism of Kerry, that's fine too. The American people need to know that not all of the families of those who have died in Iraq are supportive of our Warmonger in Chief.

[sandnsea]

4. Oh yes

The first place I go for my political views is the socialist party. :eyes:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Me too. They're a helluva lot more reliable than the DLC.

And the other BushLackeys.

[RBHam]

7. that's the problem....

the demonization of democratic socialist thought as equivalent to communist totalitarian thought...

this was how they have justified the rape and exploitation of central and south america...

sad to see that it's worked so well...

[pretzel4gore]

16. i recall an interview in a miami paper

the interview was with an el salvador bizman and he said that 'even having compassion for the poor is communism'...this was back in reagan era

[blm]

19. You're offbase on this one, RB. That 40,000 is to be put in to hasten

STABILIZATION which will bring in the UN and NATO peacekeepers so Americans will no longer be the occupiers.

No UN, NATO, or allied troops will go in there until there is greater stabilization.


Kerry doesn't want imperialism or permanent bases. He wants to end the occupation of Iraq.

It's also IGNORANT of ANYONE who claims Kerry is in the pocket of the oil industry. Kerry had more money spent AGAINST him by the energy industries than any candidate EVER because he has advocated for alternative energy for decades. He said he would FULLY FUND the research needed for alternative fuels to get this country off its oil addiction, as one of his first acts in office.

Surely you knew that Kerry had the BEST environmental record in Congress. He was one of the organizers for the first earth day and worked for 10 years on the Kyoto Protocol with other world leaders.

[ultraist]

23. Kerry DID vote for the war

It was WRONG for any Democrat to vote for that war and I will not accept any of their BS excuses as to why they did. "We weren't given all of the info..." Well, they knew good and fuck well that Bush lies and withholds info so why did they assume THIS ONE TIME that he didn't. They should have voted NO and demanded the UN inspectors go in and FINISH their job.

WHY did Kerry vote yes? Maybe it wasn't about the oil, him being the good environmentalist he is, maybe it was about going along with the current political wind. NOT A GOOD REASON TO SEND PEOPLE OFF TO THEIR DEATH AND MASS MURDER INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

[blm]

28. Because if Bush followed the IWR as written there would be no invasion

because it specifically stated that the president could make the decision to go to war if it was found to be necessary AFTER weapons inspections....meaning that if Clinton or Kerry or Gore were given that resolution, any of them would have allowed the weapoms inspectors all the time they needed to prove there was NO NEED to invade.

Blame Bush for not adhering to the IWR. When you blame the IWR vote, instead, you let Bush off the hook for not following its guidelines. But, the rw media framed the debate that IWR = war, and too many on the left repeat their spin.

Bush was going in with or without the IWR, and with or without Biden-Lugar. He was prepared to go in based on the 1991 UN resolution that stated that if Saddam was found to be in violation of the agreement, then military action would be resumed.

[merh]

36. See, that is where you are mistaken.

No war has been declared under the War Act. Kerry voted to give the weed to use military force if all other diplomatic measures were used and failed. The weed violated the resolution, he did not allow the diplomatic efforts to continue, the inspectors were looking for the non-existent WMD's when the weed attacked Iraq.

Kerry voted to give the president authority to take military action if all means of diplomacy failed in convincing Saddam to turn over his WMD's and chemical weapons. Kerry was not voting for war, he was voting to allow the president the option to use the military if it was necessary. The weed violated the resolution.

[ultraist]

50. Right, Kerry voted to give Bush the authority to use military force

BAD MOVE. Why, all of sudden trust Bush? They should have kept Bush on a short leash when it came to matters of war and IMO, they had a moral duty to do so. They KNEW Bush was corrupt.

I volunteered for the KE campaign, but I do not and will never like the fact he voted for that war (regardless of the procedures behind how it was executed). WRONG WAR, WRONG PLACE, WRONG TIME. He said it himself.

[blm]

55. Guess you didn't read my reply above?

Bush was going in anyway, via the UN resolution from 1991.

The IWR at least got weapons inspectors IN to Iraq first. YOU want to blame the IWR instead of blaming Bush who did not FOLLOW the guidelines of IWR.

They also negotiated to limit any invasion to Iraq because Bush had also wanted to go in to Iran and Syria with the IWR.

[ultraist]

62. So that's an excuse to vote for the war?

Because Bush threatened to go without the FULL SUPPORT of the Senate? BS. They VOTED FOR IT. The Senators who voted for it are also responsible as they, themselves, have stated.

[blm]

65. Answer this: If it had been Clinton, Gore or Kerry working with the IWR

would they have invaded or would they have followed the IWR and allowed the weapons inspections to determine that decision?

Think what you like...I don't care. I just think you never paid attention to every detail concerning that Iraq vote if you place ALL the importance on it.

[RBHam]

26. In my humble opinion, Mr. Kerry let us all down...

Not by "losing the election"...

But by campaigning as if to lose, and then allowing it to be stolen.

Sorry, I can't stand it anymore.

The way Kerry ran that election and then conceded at the first hint of voting machine controversy...

As far as Iraq goes...

He of all people should recognize another Vietnam in the making...

What else are we supposed to think?

What has all his good works and intentions added up to, in the grand scheme of things?

I have some trouble with his involvement in the BCCI and Iran/Contra investigations. All well and good - but many high echelon figures got away scot free, allowed to be "out of the loop" as it were. Allowed to go to ground and scheme for another day. And that day is now...

And here we are...

Another Vietnam, and Kerry saying America should send MORE troops...

How many troops will be enough? Considering that there are those whom subscribe to the theory of "perpetual war for perpetual profit" running it? Considering that Iran, Syria and Russia have formed a loose alliance of protection and are very interested in seeing American troops bogged down right where they are?

More American troops will certainly mean a further escalation and expansion of hostilities.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana

Just my opinion...

[merh]

37. And its my opinion that the World Socialist Web Site is not a

legitimate source for unbiased intepretation of the facts. I don't believe it supports the democratic and progressive ideals that most on DU share.

That you chose to post a link to one of its articles to attack Kerry makes me doubt your intentions.

What are they hiding?
What are they afraid of?

And why does Kerry scare them so?

[G_j]

71. LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-kerry16feb16,1,7772615.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

THE NATION
As Promised, Kerry Proposes Measure to Add 40,000 Troops
Senator fulfills a pledge from his failed run for president. The plan also would boost benefits.

By Mark Mazzetti, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON — Following through on a pledge he made during his failed presidential bid, Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) said Tuesday that he would introduce a measure to expand the U.S. military by 40,000 troops to stave off what he argued was a worsening crisis within America's fighting forces.

<snip>

[blm]

46. His involvement bothered you? Fer chrissakes, RB, the man had the FBI and

CIA sicced on his ass for the 5 years he was on those investigations. He had to HOUND congress to look into both. They didn't WANT TO and he went in front of ca,eras to FORCE them into it.

During IranContra, the congress wanted to drop it after the initial congressional testimony, they wanted the investigating stopped. So Kerry continued to investigate with the help of Ralph Nader and Public Citizen. Is that the act of a Senator trying to help cover up?

Did you ever read about BCCI and how Kerry went to court to get info DEclassified so the public could see it and how Bush1 fought to keep it classified?

You think he was part of the plot to label himself a "conspiracy theory nut" in the press?

When fuckin' Robert Mueller refused to prosecute on BCCI, Kerry took his files to Robert Morgenthau in NY so he could press state charges.

II think you should read a few books on BCCI before you conclude that Kerry is one of THEM.

In fact, read Robert Parry. He's as sharp as any investigative journalist and knows every player in the BFEE. He would have seen through Kerry if he were covering up as you say. Parry tells the story straight as the journalist he is. He doesn't editorialize or make Kerry seem heroic, he just reports the facts as they happened....Kerry was doing his job.

[RBHam]

49. Why won't Kerry call a spade a spade?

A cover up is a cover up...

A Fascist is a Fascist.

Stronger rhetoric is just a start.

Only John Kerry could have led a movement to uncover the truth behind the OBVIOUS RAMPANT Voting Fraud in 2000, 2002 and 2004...

We need(ed) Kerry to plainly call them on their lies and AGGRESSIVELY DEMAND that the full truth of ALL THESE CRIMINAL CONSPIRACIES be revealed to the American people. And NEVER LET UP!

Bush is sitting on the release of the Reagan papers, the Clinton papers, the JFK assassination evidence...

I'm sorry, again, I have to be intellectually honest to myself.

When will the good guys stand up?

They can't kill us all. Can they?

[blm]

53. heh...I always wonder why Gore didn't research the BBV problem.

He certainly had the means and the motivation to look into the voting machines and their software and was savvy enough to "get" that part of the inner workings that mystify other pols.

Alot of people in Washington knew NOTHING about BBV until the election. They only hear what the media is focused on. Especially a guy who is on the road campaigning day in and day out and staying on top of a dozen other daily issues.

In my view, it was the DNC who should have been on top of the voting machines after 2002 - They and Democrats on election boards all over the country.

[RBHam]

54. I will be the first to apologize when kerry proves me wrong...

I promise.

[blm]

57. My test for any detractor is this:

Name ONE lawmaker in the last 30 years who has investigated and exposed MORE government corruption than Kerry.

Then tell me again how Kerry is just like the worst of them.

[Vektor]

60. I can't name one.

You are absolutely right.

Can you say "misdirected anger"?

[merh]

34. Thank god someone sees through the bullshit of the originally

linked article. The extra troops are needed to stabalize the region. The extra money, to equip the troops serving so that more don't die.

For a bonesman, Kerry sure did his best to expose the lies of Poppy.

[RBHam]

38. His best?

Wasn't good enough, was it?

I also blame Kerry for letting Lee Hamilton whitewash Poppy's definite "in the loop" connection to iran/Contra...

Now Hamilton helps cover up 9-11...

Why won't Kerry say anything about this?

[merh]

41. Again, your choice of a website article leads me to doubt

your resources and your intentions.

You let me know when you give 30 years of your life to public service the way Kerry has.

Also let me know when you will be running for an elected office, I will gladly donate and I will happily discuss with you how the media can distort your words and efforts.

[RBHam]

42. my intentions?

where have you been?

[RBHam]

43. I'm a socialist!

Throw me in Guantanamo!

[merh]

44. Right here and you?

:shrug:

[RBHam]

I've been excerpting the wsws for years here...

They have ALWAYS proven correct in their analysis.

While American mainstream media did damn near nothing as the Bush Cabal deceived America into a disastrous war, the wsws was out front in publishing the truth behind the PNAC agenda.

The wsws also has been consistently highly critical of Socialist Totalitarian regimes.

The rake Putin over the coals for his totalitarian "reforms"...

I'm serious here.

They nailed greenspan as a Bush acolyte long before Krugman clued in...

Sorry.

[blm]

51. RB, that's horseshit. After investigating and exposing IranContra, the

Senate leaders wouldn't ALLOW Kerry to be named to the panel because they said he was TOO HOT and the administration thought he was hounding them.

Kerry would only go if they gave him the authority to investigate into the drug and terror funding he suspected was going on as part of the illegal wars in Central America, which all came down to BCCI.

He worked for FIVE YEARS on these investigations, and would NOT stop even when asked by the BIGGEST DEM powers at the time.

[ultraist]

63. "I will withdraw 40,000 troops within my fist six months if I become Pres"

~John Kerry

Remember that promise?

[sandnsea]

20. Democratic Socialist???

Oh horseshit. This is a very far left pure socialist web site and doesn't have anything to do with liberal democratic thought.

If you want to be a leftist, be a leftist. But don't pretend you're presenting anything that is in step with western democratic economic and political thought. You're not.

[RBHam]

29. What is "liberal democratic thought"?

Are socialist ideas like universal health care, public funding for education and militray de-mobilization allowed in?

[sandnsea]

66. That's not socialist

You'd have to go way far left of single payer or public education assistance to get to pure socialist.

[RBHam]

70. Thanks for clearing that up...

So "pure socialism" is communism?

[sarahlee]

32. You should read - and try to understand

the points being made in this article in the Yale publication, The Politic:

http://www.thepolitic.org/news/2005/02/21/Features/Radical.Environmentalism.Part.Ii-862866.shtml

[RBHam]

40. what points?

that the cia has infiltrated the environmental movement, like they did the peace movement in the 60's?

[sandnsea]

64. I read that

and said I agreed with it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. He's gotta keep the "defense" and oil industry lobbyists happy.

He wouldn't want the bloodflow to wane and threaten his "electability".

[zann725]

27. Well he doesn't have my vote anymore. Not that votes count anyway here.

n/t

[merh]

48. He has got to try to protect the troops that are over there and

stabalize the region before the UN and NATO will commit troops to come in and take over.

The weed ignored the warning of his military and did not send in enough troops, the troops that are there do not have enough equipment to properly protect themselves.

Are you of the impression that we should just pull out and leave the nation we destroyed to rebuild and fend for itself? Isn't that something like we did when we backed the Afghan rebels against the USSR, isn't that why Osuma hates us?

Just wondering what it is you think we should do.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

52. The "world's mightiest military" needs protection?

Give me a break.

I am of the impression that we should "just pull out", "cut and run", whatever you like to call it, and pay reparations to Iraq. Just like other imperialists and the Nazis had to do.

We aren't "backing the rebels" in Iraq. We are attempting to kill the "rebels" and I think it's a pretty safe bet that the Iraqis aren't going to love us if we stay and destroy more of the country and kill more of their citizens.

[KlatooBNikto]

8. In this imperialist venture they are following the advice of a tried and

true British imperialist called Paul Johnson who said that the only way the West can turn these savage Arabs/Muslims into civilized human beings is to reimpose colonial rule and "educate"them in civilized behavior. You may call him the British version of Leo Strauss, another despicable character among many revered by the know-nothings of this administration.

[wildmanj]

10. 40,000 more

and i would suppose kerry is sending all those in his family since he is so excited about another 40,000 men and or women in iraq----are we to become the first state of israel or is israel to become the 51st state of the united states---time for someone to tell the frigging truth why we are in iraq---i don't ever remember iraq refusing to sell us oil nor do i find in any way where they were involved with the world trade centers----is this all about a greater israel controlling the entire middle east---color me curious

[stray cat]

14. No more war on the cheap by abusing National Guard -

Right now they are doing things on the cheap by relying on national guard troops that don't receive many of the financial benefits for themselves and their families that full time troops receive. War on the cheap by abusing the national guards purpose is wrong.

[KG]

15. well, at least he wasn't george bush

so, there!

[G_j]

21. LOL

Most everyone I know eventually drank that Koolaid, even if it made them feel sick inside.
now we all feel a bit dirty

Life long peace activists made to the polls, putting aside their most sacred principals to get rid of the shrub.
What makes me the most pissed off were the people who insisted Kucinich or Dean were "unelectable".

never again

[KG]

25. word.

done cast my first and last strategic vote.

[sampsonblk]

30. Amen

First and last here too.

[ultraist]

24. and that's why I supported Kerry and voted for him

He's not as bad as Bush but his vote for Iraq was WRONG.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[penpal7]

39. I e-mailed my state senator

and told him to send the bush budget back to him until he tell where the 9 billion of our money went over there that they can't account for, my senator the democrate one told me he supports the troops so he will vote for the bill, no questions asked.

[Disturbed]

47. $9 billion is getting close to

being serious money. Where did it go? Did some of it go to support certain elements of the "Insurgency"?

[chlamor]

45. What Do Iraqi People Want? -Leave Our Country Now

More troops, more money for troops? This means more looting of US treasury into the black hole of Halliburton-Lockheed-Becthel-Dyncorp. This means KBR constructing massive military bases. This means the invaders exploiting and abusing the people who have an inherent right to national sovereignty and personal dignity. It's their country, their homes, their water, their land. America must leave immediately. No post occupation scenario could be worse than what is happening.
Most importantly it is the Iraqi people who should decide their own fate and even the Pentagon survey showed an overwhelming desire in the Iraqi populace for immediate US departure.
Recommended article at
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0218-26.htm
A few excerpts:
We lived through dark days under Saddam Hussein's dictatorship. When the regime fell, people wanted a new life: a life without shackles and terror; a life where we could rebuild our country and enjoy its natural wealth. Instead, our communities have been attacked with chemicals and cluster bombs, and our people tortured, raped and killed in our homes.
We don't want a timetable - this is a stalling tactic. We will solve our own problems. We are Iraqis, we know our country and we can take care of ourselves. We have the means, the skills and resources to rebuild and create our own democratic society.

[ultraist]

56. And why aren't they giving the contract jobs to Iraqis instead of US cos?

People are fantasizing if they think the Iraqis want the US there or that the US is "doing the Iraqis good by being there. Therefore we cannot pull out right now." That's simply a water downed version the Repuke mantra.

MASS MURDERING Iraqi citizens is not doing them any good. Mothers and children are being mutilated. Fathers are being imprisoned, beaten, raped and killed. There is no good in this. We need to get the fuck out, NOW.

The US has already been there TWO YEARS TOO LONG.

[Vektor]

58. S&B??? BULL AND SHIT.

this Skull and Bones "blaque majique" bullshit has got to stop. It's absolutely fucking stupid, and Kerry is not directly responsible for the death of any soldier.

Put down the Dungeons and Dragons, and get a fucking grip.

[ultraist]

67. Kerry himself said he is somewhat responsible for those soldiers

He also said, he would withdraw 40,000 troops in his first six months and NOW he is supporting sending over 40,000 troops. I bet the Repukes are calling this a big fat flip flop!

[Vektor]

69. See number 68.

The Repukes call everything a Dem says a flip flop. I'm way past giving a shit.

[mvd]

73. Locking

This is flamebait.

DU Moderator