Blogs are untrustworthy

[ck4829]

NOT!!!

I am still fuming from when a person on CNN said blogs are not able to be trusted and they need to be held accountable. And to think, that was days ago!

This is crazy, if it weren't for the certain Good things in my life, I would be certain I am living in a backwards nightmare.

Who needs to be held accountable? Blogs or the Media? I say the Media, but don't take my word for it. See what Media Matters for America has to say about it.

Abstinence-only advocates spread falsehoods on cable

Hume defended Cheney with lie about Kerry weapons-system cuts

OReilly, Cameron forward lie that Bush never said "mission accomplished"

Coulter and Limbaugh accused Kerry of refusing to release military records; they are posted on his website

Tucker Carlson has amnesia: "Nobody prevented anyone from voting" in Florida

Bozell repeated lie that Lay slept in Lincoln Bedroom during Clinton years

FOXs OReilly fabricated evidence of success of purported boycott of French imports

OReilly lied about his French boycott ... again

OReilly said Savage does not engage in "malicious" attacks; Limbaugh "doesnot lie"

Hannity repeated lie that Sudan offered bin Laden to Clinton; Lanny Davis to Hannity: "That is a lie"

Gingrich falsely claimed that Republican senators never "systematically tried to obstruct" Clinton judicial nominees

Hannity claimed "absence of evidence" that Kerry "was in combat in Vietnam"

Olbermann: Hume, FOX News committed "premeditated, historical fraud" in distorting FDR

FOXs Lis Wiehl said Hillary Clinton "lied about going to the funerals" of 9-11 victims; OReilly agreed

CBS Radios Osgood advanced false claim that FDR favored private Social Security accounts

Haigs false claim: WMDs not initial rationale for Iraq war

OReilly fabricated "personal attacks" by others; has launched his own

Coulter resurrected phony Clinton scandal to discredit Rumsfeld criticism

[raggedcompany]

1. Let them say it.

Fact is, MSM is dying. We're the new media. We are doing as David Barsamian has pleaded for years..we are becoming the media.

If they want to hit us hard, they need to start doing their jobs. Otherwise, good bloggers everywhere will usurp them. A fact is a fact, no matter who shines the light.

Truth will out. Especially when the people get invovled.

[natrat]

6. unless ,of course, they close down the internet

if the rats get backed into a corner who knows

[SHRED]

2. The MSM is nervous

The blog world is scooping them.
Since the MSM doesn't have any courage, then I say, fuck 'em.

[spanone]

3. This is coming from folks who make their living doing what the blogs do.

But, they have to run it through editors.

[Occulus]

11. That would be why they're bitter.

We do what we do because we have a passion for the truth. We do not get paid for what we do- this makes and keeps us impartial to all but the truth.

Blogs have one other huge advantage over the PBM (print & broadcast media- I'm not using 'MSM' anymore): posters. Blogs have many, many minds working on the same story or the same angles of a particular story. This makes blog entries "works in progress"; one cannot criticize blogs for "not telling the truth" or "not having their facts straight" because that is an acknowledged part of the blog writing process. As new facts and information appear or are uncovered, bloggers can update their stories "on the fly", as it were; the PBM must reair or reprint their additions or corrections along with the rest of the story so far. Their space is limited; blogspace is not.

Blogs don't have that limitation; they can update at any time with new information and the writers of the blogs are almost never averse to admitting they were wrong. The fact they were wrong about some fact or other does not concern them in the least, bceause they realize not all leads... well, lead to anything.

The truly astounding phenomenon of blogs is that these people are doing what used to be called "real" journalism, they are doing it unpaid, they are doing it without formal training- and most of all, they are doing their 'job' quite well indeed, lately.

Blogs will supplant the PBM, and the PBM will start getting its scoops from bloggers. That's already been happening, and in fact sources on the Gannon story have gone to bloggers already with information, instead of going to the PBM.

The fact is, the PBM created a vacuum when it decided to report the corporate line rather than the truth. Reporters ought to have job protections keeping them from being fired for writing or airing stories which are critical of the network's or paper's corporate masters.

Bloggers, on the other hand, require no such protections. They are unpaid, and thus have nothing to lose by reporting information which some may consider damaging to themselves or "their business". In that sense, I suppose, bloggers represent a danger to those who would seek to undermine or outright bury the truth.

Blogs are the "new media". Their star is rising very quickly, and I don't believe there's much the PBM can do about it.

[aneerkoinos]

18. Good post

I think it was good old Al Giordano, who coined the term "authentic journalism" and has already quite many scalps of faux journalists (Latin America correspondents) on his belt. Authentic journalism is what most bloggers do, and corporate propaganda is what Corporate Media whores do.

And it was Narconews against a Mexican bank which brough historical court decision that web news-outlets and blogs enjoy the same freedom of speach protection as PBM.

This classic piece by AL is really the Manifesto of the blogosphere, and every blogger should take care to read it:
http://www.narconews.com/themedium1.html


Respec, Al Giordano, Mr. Authentico!

[wildeyed]

4. The only reason I came here in the fist place is that

the MSM is NOT DOING ITS JOB! At least when I look at a blog, I know it's partisan.

Seriously, I am not some fire-breathing radical (or at least I didn't used to be). I am a really average person. But they drove me here with their total lameness.

[aneerkoinos]

8. Au contraire

The SO CALLED "MSM" (there's nothing mainstream about the propaganda machine of corporate fascism) are doing exactly what is their job. The job of the Corporate Media is to whore in the interests of corporate fascism.

I guess I'm a "fire-breathing radical", since truth cannot be anything but radical. Wellcome aboard, comrade! :)

[GalleryGod]

5. MSM Opening that Box of "Attends" right now!

:hurts:

[KyndCulture]

7. Colbert on the daily show said it best...

"You bloggers only have facts, that's not real journalism"

hehehehe...

[booley]

9. funny, the "mainstream media" hasn't been credible

how many times were we told there were WMD's in Iraq and that they had been found?

How many times did a fake news program produced by the shrubbery make it on as real news?

How many important stories have been ignored by the media until it explodes from somewhere else (usually the bloggers) ?

In fact, how many times have the mainstream media shilled for the Shrubbery , whether they were paid to do it directly or not?

This isn't about credibility and yet it does. because the Big corporate media is feeling threatened by blogger who are taking the control away from them. But that wouldn't have happened if the corporate media had any credibility to begin with.

[pansypoo53219]

10. sounds like they are

nervous about their turf.

[Occulus]

12. That's because

their turf used to be truth, which is like bedrock. Their turf is now the corporate line, which lies to save itself.

Castles built on sand. Blogs are the incoming tide.

[aneerkoinos]

15. Of course

Vile ad hominems and ridicule has been the favourite weapon of the corporate media whores, and it's a formidable weapon (see snuffing out Dean campaign, for example, after Dean stood up against the corporate media).

The greatest fear of the whores is that they can no more dish it out without also taking it, that the blogosphere will get personal with the corporate media whores ("journalists" and their pimps ("editors"), and expose them for what they are.

It's war, every and each whore and pimp must be made game...

[flyarm]

13. THANKS JUST SENT TO MY GROUPS ON THE INTERNET TO SEND OUT TO ALL THEIR

friends and family...everyone send this to everyone you know!!

but they forgot the brit hume lie about social security...

thanks for this

getting to as many as i can!!

fly:hi:

[luaptifer]

14. excellent point and great compilation of faux pox!

but, to an extent, that CNN commentor was correct.

and it's why a number of us across several of the lefty forums and blogs have been rather obsessive in trying to ensure that when we see incorrect information on these lefty 'commons', we bring it to the attention of our fellows.

i don't intend the implication that harrassment is ok but for us to do the job the presstitutes are not, we must police ourselves with fact-checking, positing counter-arguments, outing unfounded claims as speculation or lies, etc.

we must be willing to both be shown that we are wrong when we make claims proven false but to ADMIT that we are wrong and to publicly correct our mistakes. too many of us let our egos interfere with what is most important, the facts and truths that make our arguments RIGHT! unwillingness to admit wrongs means we're making our egos more important than our issues.

the MSM whores have editors -- clearly imperfect -- we have only ourselves.

on the lefty commons, it is WE who must be the editors to ensure that CNN's claim remains simply a false assertion of another self- and money-interested presstitute.

i'm speaking from too goddamn long an experience on several of these commons over the last quarter of a year. 'rathergate' is the model that has motivated myself and several others across these commons to loudly challenge those who seem to misinform or disinform. we don't know if you're a rightwing dog behind that keyboard.

all we know is that incorrect info repetitively hammered into the subliminal foundation of lefty perception might someday prove to be the trojan horse that (FALSELY, remember bu$hit was AWOL) 'memogates' a bu$h-impeachable story into nothingness

let us be our own media and screw the presstitution ring by being accurate!

please clearly identify your speculation, fact-check, self-correct, quote, link, and delete your ego when your story is scrutinized. likewise, those of us on the obsessive side must ensure that WE don't tweak the ego of those we're calling to task.

[Occulus]

16. Thank you for that, it's what I was saying above, too

Some of the things you mentioned bloggers need to be careful of- such as bloggers having only themselves and no editors- can actually work for bloggers. They do have only themselves, but the best blogs also have a huge, open support staff in the form of the people who post comments on the blogs.

That element- and the complete willingness of the blogger him/herself to follow up on those comments and respond directly to them- marks a major difference between blogs and the PBM; blogs can and do refine the story over time until polished; the print & broadcast media must polish first, then publish. That doesn't allow for much correction, refinement, or follow-up; blogs do all that.

[luaptifer]

21. kgfnally, excellent extension, thanks for redirecting me to

the post you'd made above, i'm glad to have restated some of those ideas from a slightly different perspective.

your response helps reiterate that i must pay more attention to conveying tone and direction in my posts since i agree with you regarding editors and we who are the blogging staff. that active research and story refinement in which we participate is so critical. and the difference between the 'finished product' broadcast and blogging underscores a very important issue.

but i should qualify further that some of my statements come from experience on this and other discussion forums where an incorrectly asserted claim may go to archive standing undeleted and uncorrected. there are a number of posters to these forums who've proven willing to REPOST invalidated information or unwilling to publicly admit being wrong and unwilling to state a correction. it's been my experience with several of these, who claim simply making mistakes (misinformation) but are effectively disinforming because they know the information is wrong, that makes me obsessive about ensuring the truth ;-)

polished broadcast product vs. refining bloggerdom

the first time an idea imprints on our brains, it's establishing itself as a pioneer in fresh territory and is significant for that reason. repetition of the idea drives it into longer-term memory. that's what studying attempts to do, repeat ideas til they move to long-term memory.

broadcasters make that sensational first-shot with all of the perception-impacting media at their disposal. their first shot prints deeply through the parallel memory mechanisms accessed by visual, audio, and textual media.

the internets must impact primarily through text which makes repetition all the more important for establishment.

so, the 'misinformers' here become disinformers by allowing the wrong ideas to get to longterm storage as members read the same thing several times that's never been corrected, that could have been corrected. whatever the original intent, the info-consumer's perception has been misdirected. that's the aim of propaganda.

there, hopefully presenting a clearer context for my original comment and in agreement still with the points you make. and all without corporate policy directing what we do through an 'editor'!

[Occulus]

22. much more clear, thanks

This was important in what you just said:

"but i should qualify further that some of my statements come from experience on this and other discussion forums where an incorrectly asserted claim may go to archive standing undeleted and uncorrected. there are a number of posters to these forums who've proven willing to REPOST invalidated information or unwilling to publicly admit being wrong and unwilling to state a correction."

Oh, absolutely. That's one of the dangers of discussion forums and blogs; fortunately, the balance is in the number of people who participate. Of course, this assumes there are at least a few paying close attention to the important stories, which isn't always the case.

If there were going to be a new entry in the evolution of journalism, the blog would be that entry. It seems to work fairly well, just out of the gate..... I wonder what blogs will be in two years, or five :)

[luaptifer]

23. two years or five...most important, i believe is that they remain

independent of corp-money-interested editorial 'oversight'. that any oversight is constrained and directed by truth, not profit-motive!

i suspect you agree! it is a wonderful experiment in the works, open-source reality channels, what a thought :-)

[K-W]

17. Blogs are untrustworthy, so is the print and broadcast media.

Anyone who thinks it is useful to try and generalize everything from the same medium is an idiot.

People should be less concerned with who to trust and more concerned with learning how to critically process information.

[hector459]

19. Blogs are more trustworthy than our government under Bush.

Everything is relative. This administration turns the relativity notion on is head. If the MSM covered "Jeff Gannon" one-fourth the amount they covered Clinton and Monica and Clinton and Paula, Bush would be resigning right now. At least Rove would be resigning.

[annabanana]

20. We are the American Id

we just ARE. Facts, hunches, and good old fashioned intuition all have a place in the public marketplace.

[luaptifer]

24. great diary at dKos "Citizen Bloggers: End the Disinformation Campaign"

check it out, trying to use current disarray of MSM presstitutes to leverage our impact:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/20/131631/202