Does the Draft have anything to do with a Liberal America?

[Toots]

America experienced some of it's most Liberal attitudes and Laws while America had a Draft. As soon as the Draft ended America took a Hard Right turn. Is there any correlation? I think there is. I am not necessarily advocating for the Draft but I think it is interesting that there is such a coincidence. I notice very few Republicans allowed themselves to be drafted while most Democrats did. I think having served by conscription gave the Democrats the incentive and determination to make changes in our society to protect our citizens. The republicans move in the opposite direction.

[havocmom]

1. A draft makes more people sit up and pay attention.

Democracy is NOT a spectator sport. Too many have been sitting on the bench the past decades. A draft gets people off the bench and into the game. That = better function of democratic processes which = more populism and less crony politics.

[WilliamPitt]

2. Yes

The governing of the nation and the defense of the nation are supposed to be in the hands of the people in a democracy. Membership has its privileges, but also its responsibilities. Right now, we wash our hands of the soldiers because most of us don't know any. If it's your neighbor or your friend or you, however, that's a whole different story. Membership has its privileges, but also its responsibilities.

The more people are suceptible to being dropped into a shooting war that was started to make a few people rich, the less it will happen.

Less war, less military spending because of less war, is pretty liberal to me.

[calico1]

3. I don't necessarily think that Republicans

were able to avoid being drafted (at least during Vietnam). People with money and connections (from both parties) were often able to avoid going. I think that if most average Americans were more Liberal and more caring its because they knew they were just a lottery number away from going to war or having a loved one go. And so everyone cared and wanted the war to end. When you have an all volunteer military its easier to support a war knowing you don't have to go, don't you think? I don't want a draft either but I can guarantee you that if there is one you will see vast numbers of pro war Americans have a sudden change of heart. Because then it will become PERSONAL. They will know it can be them or a loved one -- at any time. It won't be just someone else's kid.

[Coastie for Truth]

4. There is some validity to that argument

Between conscripts and conscription motivated volunteers we had a very diverse military.

My conscription motivated experience was an eye opener -- first time I ever interacted with Southwesterners, lots of Californians, Latter Day Saints, Evangelicals, liberals, conservatives, etc. (I had grown up in an "Eastern European enclave" in the Rust Belt, went to school locally, etc.)

Also, when you have diverse conscripts/conscription motivated volunteers the "political limit" on what the President can do is more quickly reached then with an "all volunteer force."

The college campus opposition to VietNam began in 1964-65. The "conscript/conscription motivated volunteer" opposition kicked in around the fall of 1967-spring of 1968, and drove LBJ from office. It took that long for the first big cohort of the conscripts/conscription motivated volunteers to come home - and go out into the neighborhoods -- and really tell their friends and family (and WW2 veteran dads and uncles) that "this is the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place against the wrong people and will never be winnable."

That message can not come from the media -- it has to come from the grass roots returning conscripts/conscription motivated volunteers.

I know all of the theoretical and political and moral arguments -- but I was there - and I was radicalized.

[Hello_Kitty]

5. As much as I hate the idea of a draft

At this point I can't see anything else that will serve as a more effective wake-up call to the brain washed herd that is following *. And some of these people should really know better. Case in point:

One of my friends is a stereotypical "Security Mom" who voted for dumbass despite the fact that she deplores the anti-choice and anti-gay stances of the GOP. She is an educated woman with a good job. She totally bought into the "terra" meme and really believes that killing American soldiers and innocent Iraqis somehow keeps us safe from the mostly Arab radical Islamic terrorists. However, when it comes to her own 14 year old son (who is so right wing thanks to indoctrination from her and his idiot dittohead asshole father that I call him Dick Cheney Jr.) no way does she want him in the military. He has indicated that he wants to join when he's old enough and she's freaking out about it. Total hypocrisy from a typical middle class Repuke. Not MY kid. She wants him to go to university and be safe at home, going to his College Republican meetings while the poor kids march off to bring "freedom" to the brown skinned countries with oil. The hell with that.

A draft just might wake these women up. A lot of women such as my friend defected to * in this past election. Drafting their babies might shake them out of their fantasy worlds and get them to think about what we're really doing over there. History has shown that women's activism is crucial in ending wars. I know that's a terrible thing for those of you on this board with kids to even consider and flame away if you must but that's just what I think.

[Coastie for Truth]

7. When I read Your Post I Thought of Diane Arbus "Boy In Straw Hat"

<>

These are the young chicken hawks, children of "water cooler generals" who cheer on the war as long as some one else goes.

(This picture really made the rounds during VietNam - he symbolized the chicken hawks who didn't go -- not the hippies and protesters - but the chicken hawks; we identified much more with the protesters then with the chicken hawks)

[tabasco]

6. Most European nations have universal service of some kind.

It seems to make them less warlike. I feel universal service has a number of advantages. Most importantly, the people will share the sacrifice if there is a war.

The volunteer military is looked upon like mercenaries. I have heard many conservatives cry "they volunteered for this" in pro-war arguments.

It's amazing how people respect diplomacy so much more when it will be their ass on the line if there is a war.

Freepers like to watch war on teevee. It makes them feel proud to be Americans seeing our military steamroll some third world country. Wait until there is a draft and see how many gun-nut freeper types become liberals.

The Army is missing its recruiting goals. I wonder how the neocons will fix the growing personnel shortage. I suspect they await another terror attack which will "change everything" again.

[Touchdown]

8. "...Did somebody change the channel?"

I left it on thirteen
The President will explain this all to me
I don't need a fitness trainer
to be all that I can be
This little remote is all I realy need.

They target a destination
We watch it disappear
Don't you think it's time we had another beer?
The lines of communication
are always the first to go
They've done it again
The Patriots stole the show.

That's how we like it!

When we get bored
We watch the war on my TV
and I'm surrounded by my friends
...And that's how we like it!...


Saga: That's how we like it!