What is a " kosher-dairy lunch" exactly?

[Smarmie Doofus]

My son ( non-Jew) is attending a vacation camp at the local YMHA tomorrow. They asked me to send him with a "kosher-dairy lunch".

Without getting into too many complexities...can I send him with , say, turkey on rye, fruit juice,plus an apple for dessert? Can I put butter on the sandwich? What must I absolutely avoid?

Something for the " now for something completely different" dept.

Thanks.

[eyesroll]

1. Kosher--dairy means just that. All stuff should be kosher, and dairy-only.

No meat. That includes poultry.

Milk products, fish and eggs are OK. You can go completely vegan if you want.

The fruit juice and apple are OK; make sure the juice is kosher (it's not so much what's in the juice, but how it's made). Most major brands actually are kosher. (The apple doesn't need certification.)

[Sgent]

5. What is the YMHA?

That's kind of a weird requirement for a non-jew.

Even amongst Jews, if 10 different Jews prepared a kosher meal, half of them wouldn't eat the other's half because they each interpret the rules a little differently...

[Smarmie Doofus]

12. Young Men's Hebrew Association, I have assumed..

They didn't ask me my religion. I might pass for Jewish. My son was born in Cambodia and most definitely will not.

[TreasonousBastard]

15. Young Men's Hebrew Association...

YMCA with a yarmulke.

With observant Jews, even the dishes for dairy and non-dairy have to be separated. Some ultra-Orthodox even have seperate sink liners for dairy and non-dairy.

I suspect they want everyone to be kosher because kids do tend to share and trade their lunches.

Besides, its a Jewish place, so respect their customs. I might have bacon at my place if jews showed up and there was something else for them to eat, but it would be extremely rude to show up with a ham at a Jewish home.

[Sgent]

30. I was just wondering

As a jew in Mississippi, I haven't heard of them before.

All of the youth programs are either through the shul or the JCC in Memphis and New Orleans.

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. So egg salad is OK? Problem solved. Thanks.

[hedda_foil]

2. No turkey. No meat.

Send him with a cheese sandwich or peanut butter and jelly. Tuna salad, salmon salad or egg salad are all okay too. Any fruits, vegetables, salads, chips or deserts are okay. As long as there's no meat of any kind (or a soup that contains meat) he'll be fine.

[Griffy]

8. lox on a bagel too :) nt

[Sporadicus]

3. ummm...ix - nay on the urkey - tay

Everything else mentioned is pareve(neither meat nor dairy), but 'kosher dairy lunch' indicates that no meat is welcome at this meal.

[BrklynLiberal]

16. ROTFLMAO...

loved the ix-nay.....

[rsk]

4. re: "What is a " kosher-dairy lunch" exactly?"

During my brief stint working at a local Jewish community center, I discovered that a kosher-STYLE-dairy lunch was basically a vegetarian lunch. PBJ works, as does a cheese sandwich, but no meat. Cheese pizza also works. I guess its the easiest way around the not mixing dairy with meat issue. Not being Jewish myself, I'm not sure of the background.

Hope this helps.

[Griffy]

7. Kosher is basically broken down to 2 parts...

1 is about seperating meat from dairy. This means Kosher can be meat or dairy but no meal should have both. So the turkey part would be a problem if they want a kosher-dairy lunch. Kosher peanut butter (I think most are.. look on the jar.. see below) would be fine, so would a cheese sandwich.
The other part is in the preparing of foods, to be labeled "kosher" (the little k in a circle) means basically some rabbis visit your shop and sees what ingredients you use and what proccess you follow.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. A real kosher restaurant or deli

will serve either meat or dairy products, not both.

There was a kosher deli in New Haven that my Jewish friends swore by, and you could get great meat sandwiches, but with no cheese or butter on them.

[AlienGirl]

28. My favorite kosher restaurant is parve!

Bamboo Gardens in Seattle makes awesome vegan kosher food. :9

Tucker

[Warpy]

9. NO MEAT

You can send him with cream cheese on an onion roll, or cottage cheese and fruit, or you can get away with fish (but not shellfish like shrimp or crab). Cheese and crackers would be OK. Salsa is fine.

The two parallel Kosher cuisines are dairy and meat, and never the twain shall meet.

[porphyrian]

10. Kosher rules say, among other things, that you can't mix meat and dairy...

...so, people who eat kosher alternate their meat and dairy meals. So, what they are saying is basically not to send him lunch with meat, so turkey's out. Peanut butter and jelly would be fine, however, as would any non-shellfish seafood or eggs.

That said, I would like to rant about the stupidity of the kosher rules as interpreted by people who stay strictly kosher. The actual "commandment" says something like you cannot eat the flesh and the milk of its mother in the same meal. Well why the fuck can't you eat poultry then? Nobody milks chickens. And why can you eat eggs but not chicken? It's the same fucking meat, just in different stages of development. At one point in time, before refrigeration and modern medical care, these rules may have made sense. However, unless you are trying to preserve a tradition by going through its motions, staying kosher is just plain nonsense.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

14. There's more to kosher than meat and dairy

There's also the matter of kasruth, and how the animals - chickens included - are slaughtered. The ritual slaughter, the koshering, etc. If the meat's not been prepared by a rabbi trained in the kashruth process, it's not kosher, and, therefore, not acceptable.

It's all nonsense, and I'm Jewish.

[porphyrian]

20. I'm OK with the kosher preparation of meat,...

...though with or without the Rabbi, just because its a more humane way to slaughter animals than the massive agribusiness methods. However, I think kosher practices are mostly unnecessary ceremony that have lost their meaning.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

21. Oh, I agree

Do you know about the "koshering" of the flesh, after the animal is dead?

Salt. The process uses so much salt, I'm retaining water just writing about it.

It's desperately unhealthy. How ironic is that?

[Warpy]

23. I grew up watching my Irish Catholic mother kosher her meats

She asked my other granny to show her how to cook, and it started with salting meat and draining in on the drainboard, then soaking it in brine overnight. She died last year and I never told her that's what she was doing.

My dad's family were forcibly Christianized a long time ago, but the dietary traditions continued.

To this day I can't choke pork down.

[porphyrian]

25. That's pretty interesting...

...my wife's family met some people who were Catholics from Spain who apparently went into the basement at night, lit candles, drank wine, and said a "family prayer" for generations, only to recently realize that their "family prayer" was actually some phonetic version of the Shabbat prayers. Torquemada's legacy, I guess.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

29. It's so intriguing

I hear these stories, and I'm always mesmerized by the emotional power of food, in so many contexts.

Given how pork gets to the market, your inability is keeping you safe, paisan.

;)

[Griffy]

22. eggs and chicken meat the same? guess it all does taste like chicken!

I disagree with that idea first of all. The developed muscle tissue in chicken meat is quite different from an egg... but I want to comment on the other aspect of kosher laws that you overlooked which is culture and tradition. Long ago these tradition would identify strangers easily, as well as help reduce food deaths (hmm.. people that eat pigs sometimes die.. ok everyone.. no pigs!) These traditions have been evolving over centuries as they have been passed down from generation to generation. Like Passover.. go to a Sedar sometime and you'll see the binding effect of tradition and family. I believe this is 1 of the secrets to Jewish "success". The family and cultural bond is strong after so much persecution over the centuries.

[porphyrian]

24. I'm goy, not ignorant.

My wife and her family are all Jewish, just Reform. So, they don't try as hard as the Conservative Jews to be Jewish all the time and they don't believe that every single thing in the Bible and Talmud are commandments from God like the fundamentalist Orthodox Jews.

Kosher rules are obsolete, and they are in no way the only Jewish traditions to celebrate as a family. I've been to quite a few Seders now and, like most American Jews, we're lucky to make it through the entire Hagada before the whole tradition thing wears on everyone and we break for dessert.

[AlienGirl]

26. Nonsense and meaningless to you maybe

But not to everyone. Some people find it very meaningful, as it brings more consciousness to everyday acts like eating.

Tucker

[porphyrian]

27. Obviously.

And I think they are wrong.

[Solly Mack]

11. No meat or meat fillers or derivatives. Dairy products and pareve

Cheese sandwich, for example. Egg sandwich...(egg is pareve)
Fish is pareve...so that would work

Apple ,OK

Fruit juice, ok

if you use butter, make sure it's pure butter, not a blend (blends could contain animal products)..there's also kosher margarine(some cheap margarines contain animal by-products.) Pareve (either w/ meat or diary) is printed next to the U/K with a circle around it. D next to it (the symbol) means it contains dairy.

[Sgent]

19. More info

The requirement that goes beyond the biblical requirements comes from the Talmud. The Talmud seeks to "build a fence" around biblical requirements to insure they are never broken. Some Talmudic requirements get a little abusrd IMHO. Orthodix Judaism considers the Talmud to be equal to the Torah (Bible). Reform and Conservative Jews recongize the Talmud, but don't always agree.

A good explanation of kosher requirements can be found at Jewfaq Krashut page.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

17. Send him off with six milkshakes

That should do it.

<joke>

[JohnLocke]

18. It means just dairy.

They don't want any meat or products containing because it's too difficult to verify whether it's kosher or not. Almost all dairy products (including eggs) are kosher.
*Yogurt is fine.
*Cheese and crackers is fine.
*Peanut butter and jelly is fine.
*Hope your son has a good time at the YMHA! :)
P.S.: For more details about the Jewish dietary laws, see "Kashrut: Jewish Dietary Laws."