If this isn't America's Lowest Point, it's got to be in the Top Ten

[mopaul]

Shameful is what it is, unbelievable and shameful. If you'd proposed this current situation for a sci-fi movie, you'd be laughed out of Hollywood.

Thousands of innocent people dead, wars breaking out like the plague, the stupidest man I've ever seen is the president.

Fake reporters, fake news, fake agenda, fake president, fake press conferences and walkie talkie earpieces, insane war profiteers at the helm, no checks and balances, massive corporate piracy, bla bla bla, I get sick of hearing myself whine.

No one can tell me we are not currently at our most shameful point in history. Just jaw-dropping, flat out, mind blowingly shameful. Every right that Americans fought and died for, every stand that oppressed Americans took, every advance made for democracy and humanity was wasted, if this is the final result.

All I can do is just shake my head.

[RPM]

1. thanks God...

Religion breeds stupidity - and now it has come home to roost.

Who needs reason, logic, science and inquiry when god, the bible and tradition will tell you all you need to know :eyes:

[whistle]

8. Exactly, look at Wal-Mart, they haven't done so bad with God...

...largest retailer in the world by some three or four fold over their nearest competitors.

[ladjf]

10. I don't exactly agree with your statement that "Religion

breeds stupidity". I believe that something is rendering them vulnerable to the religious mode of thinking, which excludes all objectivity. They, the religious "fundies" are somehow susceptible
to being brain washed. But, I have no idea why.

All is evolving. And everything evolves for a reason. The question we need to solve is what is about the current context that is opening the door for a global epidemic of Religionism? They are currently thriving like a vast colony of bacteria. Undoubtedly, their survival style, which is based on nihilism can't continue. The trouble is that they are taking the rest of us down. There needs to be some sort of
"anti-religious" anti-biotic that could help us with this problem.
(And I don't mean something that would kill people. Rather, help them get free of the religion "bug".)

[dandrhesse]

15. I can offer a theory on this mode of thinking --backlash of tech

the world is changing at a rate that can be overwhelming. Technology is advancing at what seems like an exponential rate while social advances, theories and coping mechanisms lag far behind. So many people regress to a black and white thinking process because it is difficult to accept that everything is shades of gray. Life isn't neat and tidy it just is. We are communitcating with people all over the globe and have quickly realized most of us are struggling just like us, trying to survive and raise our families and have a decent life. Following that line of reasoning leads to global thinking which means we don't have enemies with the "people of the world" just the power elite trying to control us... see where this is going...John Lennon's "Imagine"... so to curtail this kind of thinking, it is to the advantage of the power elite to spout dogma and get behind black and white thinking and scare tactics to keep the worker bees from rising up.

Remember these basic tenets: controlling the flow of information is controlling the thought.

Always follow the money, it will lead you to the underlying agenda.

Utimately, as a global population, the only way to achieve peace is to make peace time more profitable than war.

[ladjf]

18. Lots of good thinking in your response. Thanks

Your point about the overwhelming rate of change is important.
Large organisms such as mammals can adapt to change, if sufficiently gradual. But, with the exponential explosion of novel situations, they could find themselves unable to cope, which is another way of saying what you suggested.

I was thinking about what possible means could we use to stop the criminal actions of the Bush administration as it carries out the wishes of it's sponsors. Obviously, there is no military possibility.
But, what if almost the entire non-rich population of America simply went on strike, refusing to work, serve in the military, pay taxes or anything activity that the Govt. needs for support? They couldn't arrest and imprison everybody. But, with 59 million people voting to have the govt. overthrown by Bush, we're a long way from the "strike point".

[ConcernedNonpartisan]

21. I would add one simple observation

Technology makes life different, not better.

It is our application of technology that determines it's relative value.

[HereSince1628]

2. I think its at least in the bottom 5.

The other day I looked at the mess in the garage and thought this will work well on the barricade.

[opihimoimoi]

5. The Fish Mongers wives will rise once more to lead a movement

to right the wrongs of the GOP.

The Fish cleaners were the first to revolt in Paris at the incipient stage of the Revolution.

Where are our Fish Monger Wives when we need them?

[union_maid]

3. Seems that way to me, too

It certainly seems like there's less hope for anything better than ever in my lifetime. It's hard to evaluate what went before because history doesn't really give you a feel for the times. At least, when I read about times I experienced in my kids' history books, they didn't seem to capture the tenor of those times.

In that vein, I asked my mother, who came of age in the Depression, moved into full adulthood during WWII and then had to watch the era of McCarthyism emerge here after so many had died for freedom in Europe and the Pacific, for her perpsective on these times. She said it's never been worse as far as she's concerned. She says she never felt doubt that the country would come through all those other things, stronger and better than ever. Now, she's not so sure. So, yes, I'd say it's not only in the top 10 worst periods for this country, we're pretty close to the nadir.

[Warpy]

4. Read about the era of the Robber Barons

in the last years of the nineteenth century and the beginning of the twentieth. Times were worse then. Not only did they buy and sell politicians the way corporations do now, they didn't have to do it entirely by campaign contributions. There were no laws against monopoly, and monopolies existed for a lot of things, most notably railroads. The press was controlled by people like Hearst, and veracity wasn't anything most of them were concerned with. There were no protections at all for labor, which routinely worked 14-16 hour days with no holidays or sick time. Communication was by telegraph and mail, if at all, so it was hard as hell to get any sort of national movement going.

But start national movements, they did. This is when the labor unions gained a foothold, and when progressives took over the pubbies and got some much needed reforms and checks on business instituted. It didn't last long in the GOP, since the rich reasserted their control quickly and progressives went to the Democrats, but it was enough for the time.

Things are grim and getting worse. They've been worse still in the past, and we've come through it.

The short term outlook is very bad. The long term outlook may not be.

[mopaul]

6. bush & his crew haven't reached THEIR lowest point yet

there are many low points. starting with the genocide of the native people, the enslavement of the African people, oppression of the freed slaves, oppression of women, exploitation of children and endless imperialist wars.
and literally millions dead along the way, the world over.

[ladjf]

11. The depravity of the Bush group goes beyond my wildest

imagination.

[Disturbed]

7. The Great Depression was real bad.

If the Bush Junta attacks Iran and Syria jumps in things could get a whole lot worse. I am concerned about that possible event.

[ladjf]

12. Just because the U.S. military is the strongest in the world,

doesn't make the U.S. invulnerable to devastating attack. I Bush and his people continue to piss off the world, sooner or later there is going to be a "payback". It's another piece of irony that the administration has convinced the American people that they, the administration, are tough on terrorism. (A) They are the worlds worst terrorist and (B) they are exacerbating the possibility of attack.

[ladjf]

9. You are, as the saying goes, "right on the money" and it's

depressing. It's hard to continue to think constructively in face of such massive fraud, greed, meanness and stupidity.

[hollowdweller]

13. I haven't felt so bad about here since the 60's. But at least then

There was more opposition and the unions were still strong.

[Tsiyu]

14. Aw, mopaul, there have been more shameful times

These are just STUPID times, like nobody learned from the past.

Yesterday, we yelled "Fuck Bush!" out the car window at the top of our lungs. It's family catharsis.

And two grizzly guys in a pickup, flag and ribbon emlazoned, gave us the thumbs up. :thumbsup: Give the populace time to catch up to us, They're gonna be MUCH more pissed than we are!!!

But I know in my 45 years, this is the MOST bummed out I've been about the state of things. Even Nixon had the good grace to step down for the good of his country.

Imagine * doing anything humble or altruistic for the good of this country. Imagine ANY Repuke doing anything that doesn't just benefit himself?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. Herr Busch would call in a nuclear strike on the White House....

...before he would EVER step down from the seat of power.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

16. Wait until the full effects of global warming kicks in....

...then we will see Herr Busch and his PNACer henchmen in all of their finest, and most terrible, glory.

[Lisabtrucking]

20. O my , I was thinking the same thing this morning, even before I read

this post. I dropped my 16 year old off at school, which is a quarter of a mile from a huge electric polluting company. The company has 3 tall stakes and the pollution coming out of it drove me crazy, thinking I just put my child in a environmental disaster. Not only is the High School bye this Company, but the Middle School and Elementary school are all together. I took the way home that drove by this site, the smog was unbelievable, and right next to this smog producing company was another one just smutting the pollutions in the air. What in the hell are we doing to our children, I have called and complained, but have had no luck. These people around here I think are brain dead.

[catmandu57]

19. It's definitely in the top ten

and moving to number 1 with a bullet. There have been worse times, our history is full of eras that truly sucked, depending on which side you stood.
From my side though, I'd say, The jacksonian removal of the Indian nations, the land grabbing wars of the 1840's and the expansionist mentality.
Slavery, which should have been number 1, the wholesale exploitation of a race for an economic structure.
Civil War
Gilded age
The rise of amerikan empirism in the early years of the 20th. century
Great depression
McCarthy
the rise of the military industrial complex
Vietnam
Rayguns and shrub the elder
with the smirking cocaine sniffing marijuanna sucking faux west texas prairie monkey riding a nuke to to top of the list.