Until we the people revolt, nothing will change

[Ironpost]

The bushes have dug a hole so deep they can't get out. You reckon you can get him to admit that he made a mistake, I think not. So we just continue to allow him to destroy us. My future deserves better, Are we to have to march on washington, I say we do, and time is awasting.

[rodriguez94]

1. agreed...let me know when we are leaving for the march on the

Whore House...I will be with you..

[Stand and Fight]

2. Be careful what you say.

BIG BROTHER is watching.

[HereSince1628]

3. In more ways than one.

[shadowknows69]

20. let them watch

if they think that massive dissent is inevitible then they will accelerate their campaign of facism thus bringing about this country's collapse and hopeful re-birth even sooner. The people WILL wake up when the worst is upon us.

[mhr]

4. Yes, I Have Been Saying This For A Long Time Now

Until the American people are ready to "take back the country" all will remain the same.

Normal shame does not work on these people - they have no conscience.

Spreading the word does not work well - the media is bought and paid for.

Social institutions that traditionally provided stability have been marginalized - propaganda has tribalized these groups.

Business institutions have been allowed to place profit over everything - they will outsource their mother to meet next quarters numbers.

The only effective force left is mass action by the millions.

Anything less will be met with an indifferent yawn.

[Skidmore]

5. Amen...

Malcolm X said that "anyone can sit...grandmothers can sit...chumps can sit...We need to stand." He also said that "second class citizen is another way of saying twentieth century slave." I realize that he was speaking about the African-American community at the time, but it seems that those word are applicable now. Today's second class citizen is anyone who doesn't wrap themselves in the flag and practice radical consumerism.

[shadowknows69]

21. Malcolm's words transcended race

as much as MLK's did. As Jesus' words are transcendant for some of us who don't consider ourselves Christian. The good things in humanity are not exclusive to anyonw save those that posess good. In the end it is only the good that can combat evil. and only justice that will conquer corruption.

[Poppyseedman]

6. When you get to DC

what are you going to do? Take up arms to overthrow the government? Yell at the whitehouse? Call Bush silly names?

We strain at the gnats, yet try to swallow the camel.

The BEST way to revolt is by democratic process. All politics are local.

The democratic party is 20 years behind in grass roots development.

While we wasted our resources and time catering to every whim of every fringe group trying not to offend anyone of them instead of instilling party discipline, the republicans have built an awesome grass roots political system to register new people, GOTV, influence local elected candidates, media contacts, etc, etc, etc

Don't think so? Just open your eyes. Florida was the focal point of many democratic efforts, the GOP did a better job of GOTV and voter registration.

We are getting our asses handed to us for a reason, it's not because people are stupid or mind numbed robots.

It's because we are getting badly beaten at our best game. Local and state politics.

[Ironpost]

7. What you say is mostly true and I agree,

but I don't think we have the time it will take.

[Poppyseedman]

8. Building effective grass roots organizations can be done in 4 to 8 years.

that will be strong enough to tip voters back to us.

We are still a representative government. Bush will be gone in < four years. Power is won in small increments in DC. The house and senate is where we should concentrate. Times a wasting, every day we fight about fringe issues, the longer it will take to regroup and win back seats in both bodies.

Think about it. If Kerry won, he would be working with a hostile house and senate. The most exercise he would get would be whipping out his veto pen, which the GOP has enough votes to override many of the key issues. So winning the white house is a nice prize, but almost meaningless when it comes to legislation and domestic policy if we don't control some of the houses or at least have enough votes to be a major pain in the ass.

[aneerkoinos]

9. The purpose of Democratic party

Is to create an illusion of opposition, and thus keep the progressives pacified by being engaged in partisan politics, supporting a party whose policies go against their hearts and minds. Democratic party is just as much part of the corporate empire as Republicans.

The two-party "democracy" is just diversion. Sure, there are occasions when the system can be used by the progressive forces, but those are limited.

[Poppyseedman]

12. Well, I've always said the two parties are

different sides of the same coin.

If what you say is true about two-party "democracy" is just diversion.

The progressives might as well fold their tents up because as a stand alone party, they will never have enough power to influence elections.

To win power, you have to have mainstream voters, I believe most Joe six pack democratic party members don't think of themselves as progressives in the sense you do.

Winning at politics is really about compromise, not capitulation, to have a consensus.

[aneerkoinos]

23. Winning

At this point, talk about "winning power in elections" is rather a moot point, don't you think?

I'm not against compromise under "normal" circumstances, under functional democracy, but at this point on Capital Hill there is nothing but capitulation, capitulation to imperialistic corporate fascism.

Wisdom grows from accepting the reality, false hopes about "winning power in elections" should be forgotten at least for time being. Politics is not only about partisanship, it's about society. A very necessary victory would be a real opposition building from the grass roots, a vocal opposition challenging the received truths about America, the power of the corporations. There is a growing demand for such a movement, more and more people are getting educated by the Internet, by Bush, coming to see the truth about the US society. The attitude of ABB was keeping the genie in the bottle and opposition loyal to the system, now that ABB has been proved horrible failure, it's time to move on, renounce the old system and start building new society from the scratch. Valiantly, stubbornly, against all the odds and cynical short term calculations.

The sickness of American Dream runs too deep, and when the coming catastrophies force people to radically change their hopes and attitudes, there's better be a strong progressive grass roots movement around, or else there is no alternative available to openly fascist totalitarianism and most likely Mad Max sociaty.

[kk897]

14. of course, when righties own the voting process and machinery

it's a little more of a challenge.

[Poppyseedman]

25. The only reason you believe righties "own"

the voting process and machinery is because we don't own the local and state political process in many states. Florida for one.

I don't buy into that fact that anyone owns the voting process BTW.

It's a lot easier to say "The mean spirited nasty republicans stole my vote" than to go out and win over people to the party platform.

If the party platform isn't articulated well enough, which it wasn't, and we put candidates up for election that can win, the voters will come back to us.

[tom_paine]

16. "GOP did a better job at GOTV and voter registration"?!?

:wtf:

I presume you can back up that statement in spite of the fact that in 2004 Democratic registrations exceeded Bushevik Imperial Registrations in Florida, Ohio, and a number of other places.

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/voterreg/pdf/2004/2004genParty.pdf

I wonder if, back in the odl Phillipines when odl Ferdinand Marcos kept "winning" all those "elections" if there were as many people who just chalked it up to those Marcos People just "outworking" the opposition.

Phah!

We will never know, to be truthful. As much chance of finding out as we have of finding out how many of the 99% who voted for Hitler in the 1934 plebiscite actually did so and how many were altered or the ballot boxes stuffed.

[Poppyseedman]

24. Backing up statement

The GOP registered more voter's in Florida than the Democratic party as compared to the % of the voters registered in 2000.

Pull the 2000 general election pdf. It's in black and white

Dem: 2000 - 3709951 2004 - 4066066 109.5% increase
Rep: 2000 - 3358198 2004 - 3705081 110.9% increase
NoParty: 2000 - 1288037 2004 - 1731254 134.4 % increase
Ind: 2000 - 141929 2004 - 205058 144.4 % increase

Florida was a die for battle ground state.

Kerry/Edwards lost by 380,970 votes. 10,301,290 votes were cast. 3.6 % difference

Bush pulled 3,964,522 votes against 3,705,081 registered rep.

Kerry pulled 3,583,544 voted against 4,066,066 registered dem.

Some call it voter fraud, I'll just call it getting our asses handed to us.

[tom_paine]

26. Given the numerous credible reports of malfeasance

such as Busheviks trashing Democratic Voter Registration forms, maldistribution of machines to force minority, heavily Democratic areas to have to take 3 to as many as 10 hours to vote, etc.

Not to forget the use of Taxpayer Monies to fund solicitation of absentee ballots and the dozens of other disenfranchisement strategies both manual and electronic.

(oh yeah, did I forget the Bushevik use of FL State Troopers to intimidate elderly black GOTV volunteers who had been doing it for years, in some cases decades...just another Manual Disenfranchisement Strategy)

Maybe they handed our asses to us, maybe not. Unauditable "voting" machines ensure we will never know.

However, much of their Manual Disenfranchisement Strategy, such as the witholding of machines from minority precincts, they pull right out in the open, so confident they are that Free America lacks the will to stop them and the Democratic Party still has it's head up it's ass on the true nature of the problem.

But sure, maybe all that "smoke" doesn't mean fire.

I just wonder why the Busheviks' Minions would go to court to ensure that Electronic Voting Machines can't EVER be inspected by the People's Representatives.

Why would they do that?

As I said, we'll never know. Although I wonder if in other Totalitarian Countries that delude themselves that they are Free World, if the eternally vanquished opposition keeps telling themselves that it's just good ol' hard work that keeps beating them.

[shadowknows69]

22. "The democratic party is 20 years behind in grass roots development."

we may have run out of time to catch up.

[bdot]

10. Can we cover up the hole?

If they are in the hole and can't get back out, can't we just fille the hole with dirt and bury them?

[Ironpost]

11. good thinking and welcome

[ladjf]

13. We're going to have to march everywhere, not just Washington.

I mean by that, we're going to have to refuse to cooperate with the govt. in anyway. Starve the Beast!

[mandyky]

15. Weekly marches in every state capitol weekly

Once a month gatherings in DC monthly!
Sounds good, huh?

[Ironpost]

17. apparently thats what it will take and I can't afford to do that.

[mandyky]

18. For those of us on low budgets

picket outside of WalMarts, Fox affiliates and other "red businesses".

[mandyky]

19. Weekly marches and other ideas

Grab a few friends and march at your local townhall, county seat, and/or social secuity offices. Place an ad in your local paper.
Local schools with NCLB posters might be good too. :)

Monthly marches on State capitols.

Quarterly marches on DC.

They can't ignore us forever, especially if we gain strength. We could use our local meetups to get started...