Rep. Hinchey charges Rove planted false AWOL docs...will media do its job?

[paineinthearse]

In LBN, "mdmc" started a thread that reports Rep Hinchey (D-NY22) speculates that Rove planted the phony * AWOL docs with CBS, in an attempt to discredit the scandal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1256504#1256819

Go to that thread for the newspaper & blog accounts of the forum at Ithica, as well as transcript and audio.

The purpose of this thread is to follow the media accounting.

The initial newspaper report is:
Hinchey remarks draw fire
Representative has 'theory' of White House manipulation
JODY ROSELLE
Ithica Journal Staff

The Ithica Journal is a Gannett newspaper; its story hit Google News 4 hours ago:
Hinchey remarks draw fire
Ithaca Journal, NY - 4 hours ago
US Rep. Maurice Hinchey, D-22nd District, stepped into hot water with remarks made during a public forum about Social Security Saturday at the Town of Ithaca ...

I've googled a string from the story and this is the only "hit".

Let's watch to see if other Gannett (USA Today) outlets or other media outlets pick it up or if it is squashed.

edited typo.

[Ironpost]

1. I say thats a given and apparently they won't

[H2O Man]

2. Possibly

the Binghamton Press & Sun-Bulletin. David Rossie is capable of writing some good editorials, when the mood moves him. If he picks it up, there is a good chance other Gannet papers will.

[H2O Man]

4. Note!

Please consider contacting associate editor David Rossie of the Binghamton Press & Sun-Bulletin regarding this issue. I do not have an e-mail address for him; the P&S-B's web site is:

www.pressconnects.com

His address is: c/o P&S-B, POB 1270, Binghamton, NY 13902-1270. Phone the newsroom at: 607-798-1151.

There is an important reason that I am asking people to contact Rossie. Thank you.

[paineinthearse]

7. Done.

Thanks for the tip.

[H2O Man]

9. Great.

I just put on a thread asking people to get involved with this thread!

[EFerrari]

73. done.

The editorial side and the newsroom have forms on line.

[meegbear]

3. Unfortunately they will ....

and try to perceive him as a whining crackpot who should be ignored.

[H2O Man]

5. Though they might try,

Maurice is solid, and there is a good reason why he is pushing this now. DU should be supporting this now ..... very, very, very much so.

[Jackpine Radical]

61. You mean because of the Gannon/Guckert connection?

Like, maybe the story is just lying there for whoever wants it?

We both know MSM won't touch it, except maybe from a crackpot conspiracy angle. They have their orders.

[H2O Man]

63. Not for a Gannon connection.

Rove has a documented history of "dirty tricks." Correct me if I'm wrong, but he was a student of Atwater, and he was also "let go" by the first President Bush years ago for engaging in this general type of activity.

There are some journalists and editors who have shown the ability to confront the Bush administration. One is the fellow that I've mentioned from the B P&S-B.

The first step in getting the MSM to cover a story is to start with the smaller papers that are more likely to have editorials that, at very least, ask the question "Where did the CBS forged documents come from?" Then there should be LTTE asking one or two simple questions: who benefitted? Who had the ability to do this?

These LTTE will likely bring a right-wing response, stating that it was a left-wing attempt to discredit Bush. This allows our side to go to the next level: examing Rove's past history with media dirty tricks, and to show the growing collection of evidence that shows this administration is manipulating the media.

Editors read LTTE, and keep track of what issues are being addressed. This includes in the letters that aren't printed. Editors then select the articles that will be in the paper that will be of interest to readers.

The democratic left has the ablity to influence the MSM, too. It will not be something that offers instant gratification, but if we put in hard work, we will get results.

[paineinthearse]

6. 5 hours - still flying solo.

Hinchey remarks draw fire
Ithaca Journal, NY - 5 hours ago
US Rep. Maurice Hinchey, D-22nd District, stepped into hot water with remarks made during a public forum about Social Security Saturday at the Town of Ithaca ...

[pansypoo53219]

8. while it may make paper news take notice,

teevee nuws will ignore it.
they like their turkee.

[H2O Man]

10. If we can reach

any single group of people, those who are literate are a good choice.

[blue neen]

11. Who can we contact to make them take notice of this?

Olbermann?

[H2O Man]

15. Start with the Binghamton Press & Sun-Bulletin's

David Rossie. Encourage him to cover the story. If he does, it will get the interest from the folks at the next level up. Our goal may be to get the top reporters to cover it, but our method has to be to go one step at a time. Trust me that it is important to contact the Binghamton paper.

[blue neen]

18. Will do.

I also contacted a reporter at the Pittsburgh Post Gazette who has been writing excellent articles about Bush's White House.

The more exposure, the better.

[H2O Man]

19. Thank you.

"Yes" is so much more positive than "no."

[grumpy old fart]

12. There won't be much MSM coverage without "facts".......

Look, I know MSM are a bunch of lapdogs and such, but unless there are gonna be some new corroborating facts, documents, or other info, there isn't much to report except the pure speculation (however well founded).

[H2O Man]

16. Yep.

Rossie can drive to Hinchey's office, or call one of his contacts there. Then he can report "the facts." I'm not saying this on a whim.

[paineinthearse]

13. Nothing new from Gannett, just local newspapers and blogs.

Google news Hichney........

No majors yet, just local newspapers, but a few left & right wing blogs have their teeth into it.

Hinchey ties Rove to false Bush report
Kingston Daily Freeman, NY - 2 hours ago
Hinchey, D-Hurley, said Monday that comments he made at a "Town Hall" forum in Ithaca Saturday were an "exposition of a theory" based on circumstantial ...

Hinchey remarks draw fire
Ithaca Journal, NY - 5 hours ago
Maurice Hinchey, D-22nd District, stepped into hot water with remarks made during a public forum about Social Security Saturday at the Town of Ithaca Hall. ...

Congressman Hinchey says Rove planted the Rathergate memos
Sounding the Trumpet - 16 hours ago
According to Little Green Footballs: "Yesterday Congressman Maurice Hinchey (D-NY) hosted a community forum in Ithaca, New York, on The Future Of Social ...

Karl Rove Set-Up Dan Rather?
National Ledger, AZ - Feb 20, 2005
Congressman Maurice Hinchey (D-NY) made a claim that has been circulating among the far left for some time. It goes like this--Karl ...

Hinchey (D-NY) goes full moonbat
Red State - Feb 20, 2005
Congressman Maurice Hinchey (D-NY): Well, you know, they are manipulating the media, they did it in the very beginning through intimidation. ...

Loony Congressman Says Rove Planted Bogus CBS Documents
Wizbang, LA - Feb 20, 2005
... helpful? Yesterday Congressman Maurice Hinchey (D-NY) hosted a community forum in Ithaca, New York, on The Future Of Social Security. ...

Right Wing Conspiracy, Redux
Brown Daily Squeal (satire), NY - Feb 20, 2005
You know, Hinchey was sounding so good when he was sticking to questioning the Bush administration about their ties to Guckert Gannon that conservative hack ...

.......that's all for now.....
============================================

[grumpy old fart]

14. And it really does us no good to promote this story without some backup...

Yes, I know in my heart that Rove was behind "memogate", but idle speculation isn't going to get us anywhere. I'm actually a little surprised that CBS, the one who got burned in all this, hasn't been able to piece something together yet.

[H2O Man]

17. Not true.

The assistant editor from the P&S-B will be able to get the facts from Hinchey's office. No one is asking you to report the facts. At some point, people need to retire their negative attitudes about "why we can't do this or that," and realize that "Yes!" is a far more powerful message than, "we can't".

[havocmom]

20. Thank you! We need to keep reminding folks that Democracy

IS NOT a spectator sport.

Try little exercises in voicing your thoughts to people who need to hear them, people! When that works (and it WILL some of the time) feel the rush and sense of empowerment it gives you then take it to the next level!

A single ant with a grain of sand is not real impressive. A lot of ants carrying many grains of sand can build something amazing.

Thanks for the contact info, H2O Man. you always bring good things to our little clambakes!

[H2O Man]

21. Thank you.

It is indeed true that small doors often lead to large rooms. The people on DU have an opportunity here to build a foundation in the media for this story. We need to stop thinking about what type of roof we want, and get doing the most important work on building this story -- the foundation.

[grumpy old fart]

22. I agree it would be great to get to the bottom of this....

but the only "story" I see in this thread is Hinchey saying he "believes" Rove is behind memogate. Lots of people "believe" that, including me, but what we need is some hard (soft even) evidence. And Hinchey has already said that he has none.
The whole propaganda machine needs real investigating, but someone just saying that they believe something is not anything to build on, or even a story with legs.....I "believe" Bush is the Antichrist, but it's not news.

[H2O Man]

23. Hinckey may

have clues that he could provide Rossie. And Rossie may have other sources of information on the issue. Our goal is not to give Rossie a story already completed. It is to encourage him to approach the topic.It is also important to show DUers that we can identify a goal, and reach it, rather than sit like bumps on a log that list why we are helpless to do anything.

[trudyco]

24. Well I sent it to customer service - only email I could find - nt

[paineinthearse]

25. 6 hours - still flying solo.

Hinchey remarks draw fire
Ithaca Journal, NY - 6 hours ago
Maurice Hinchey, D-22nd District, stepped into hot water with remarks made during a public forum about Social Security Saturday at the Town of Ithaca Hall. ...

Gannett not picking up its own reporter's story is becoming news in itself.

[grumpy old fart]

26. And this is the danger of espousing bare opinions without some facts....

upon which a good reporter could follow up. Hinchey's "belief" gets reported, the other side says "B.S." and Hinchey provides no traction for anyone to dig in, even if they wanted to.
Gannon/Guckert on the other hand provides grist for the mill, as do the payola participants and the Plame outing players...that's where the emphasis needs to be, where there's at least a trail to find and/or follow. Just politicians trading accusations isn't a scandal, it's business as usual.

[paineinthearse]

27. IJ follow-up story by JODY ROSELLE

http://www.theithacajournal.com/news/stories/20050222/localnews/2014019.html

Hinchey remarks draw fire
Representative has 'theory' of White House manipulation
JODY ROSELLE ITHACA
Journal Staff

---------------------------------------------------------------------


Hinchey

U.S. Rep. Maurice Hinchey, D-22nd District, stepped into hot water with remarks made during a public forum about Social Security Saturday at the Town of Ithaca Hall. During the question-and-answer session of the forum, Hinchey spoke about alleged media manipulation by the Bush administration and mentioned the incident at CBS with the forged documents about the president's Air National Guard records. Hinchey then suggested that now White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove provided CBS both the fraudulent and official documents. The remarks were made after a Journal reporter had left the forum for another assignment. According to a portion of a transcript and an audio clip posted to the Web site littlegreenfootballs.com at 5:39 p.m. Saturday, Hinchey first told the group he had evidence to support his claim. Further in the transcript, he is quoted as saying he does not have evidence. Hinchey acknowledged addressing the topic but said his comments were misunderstood. "At one point, someone asked me a question about the way in which the media in our country are being manipulated," Hinchey said Monday. "And what I said is that it was developing an important issue." Hinchey denied saying he had evidence about possible Rove involvement in an alleged plan to mislead the news media. "My theory is, it's a theory, that it came from the Bush administration," he said on Monday. "It came from Karl Rove. I do think it's very important to get to the bottom of things like this. We can't allow the political process in this country to be manipulative and Machiavellian kind of way." City of Ithaca resident Jason Phipps-Morgan, who attended the forum, said he remembered a vague question but not hearing Hinchey say he had proof. "I mean, I do remember him saying that he felt basically Rather and CBS got duped by some Republican operatives," Phipps-Morgan said. "But then again he stressed, there was not any strong evidence that he knew of while he was saying this." The Web site transcript also quotes the unidentified audience member asking Hinchey if he thought it was irresponsible to make allegations without proof. "No I don't," Hinchey is quoted as saying. "I think it's very important to make charges like that. I think it's very important to combat this kind of activity in every way that you can. And I'm willing --and most people are not -- to step forward in situations like this and take risks." Mark Finkelstein, vice-chairman of the Tompkins County Republican Committee, said he found Hinchey's remarks to be politically motivated. "I didn't think it was responsible for him to make those kinds of allegations without proof," Finkelstein said. "I think it shows, I can't read his mind but I think it's something of a trend of Democrats being so disappointed with the last election but being out of the Congressional majority now for over 10 years."

[UL_Approved]

28. So what happens if this gets proven?

Does CBS run with the story, or does another network make it public?

One has to wonder how this "source" seemed credible enough to be trusted, only to be unreliable later on. This whole memo scandal has had me wondering as to how it was possible for Rather to miss this. The plant from Rove really makes it more logical.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[paineinthearse]

30. Who were the reps?

I'll bet the Dems were DINO's.

[grumpy old fart]

31. Well that's what happens you when you fly without wings....eom

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blue neen]

35. Amen to that.

[Al-CIAda]

32. Kick

[BiggJawn]

34. Oh, indeed! The Media WILL do it's "Job"...

It's job is to cover up all the unpleasantness and make Chimpy McRoach-clip look FAHBULOUS!!!!!

You'll have to read "The Guardian" or "Pravda" to find out more about this.

[SmokingJacket]

36. kick

[oasis]

37. Hinchey to be interviewed on CNN's "Inside Politics". Next half hour.

[oasis]

38. kick

[Emboldened Chimp]

39. Does he have evidenc e...

or is he merely speculating?

[grumpy old fart]

40. So far, no evidence at all....

Just making himself, and Dems by association, look like tin hatters...

[H2O Man]

41. Not at all.

Hinchey is a smart man. He has some impressive people on his staff. It may be hard for the "bump on a log" types to accept, but he wouldn't be doing this without there being more to it.

[cthrumatrix]

42. CNN is there to "kill the story" and do Rove talking points

[H2O Man]

44. Our job is to

create enough attention that it leads to a House investigation. It is better to have this CNN interview than to have it ignored. We all can make a choice -- now, today -- if we want to get off our behinds and push this story, or if we want to cross our arms and scowl and mutter, "this looks like a 'tin hat' theory." We can identify what journalists in what areas are most likely to take an interest in the story, and lobby them. That is, of course, part of participatory democracy, the things recommended by the US Constitution. Or we can be bumps on a log.

CNN is not able to kill the story. Inaction on the part of grass-roots democrats might kill it, though.

[2diagnosis]

72. A house investigation of what?

and on the basis of.. what? Hinchey's gut feeling? Admire your passion , but I don't see how trying to prove that Rove planted the docs w/o any evidence other than " he is definitely diabolical enough to dupe CBS! " will be helpful.
2 cents from a newbie.

[H2O Man]

79. You may be right.

It's possible that the growing evidence of forged documents (CBS, yellow cake) and media manipulation is a random coincidence, and that Rove's past history is nothing. On the other hand, there are those who think Hinchey may be on to something, and support the idea of having the House of Representatives do that which the US Constitution suggests. You are, of course, as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

[oasis]

43. He's putting the spotlight on Rove, reminding the public of his past dirty

tricks. Turning the heat up on these criminals is important.

[Disturbed]

45. The trail start at...

who gave the document to the guy, forgot his name. Remember Roger Stone and his wife?

[demgrrrll]

46. I am loving this. Each day bring a new delight. Make them deny it if

they can. Keep up the pressure.

[MADem]

47. He did a GREAT job on CNN

Mrs. Al "I know what you did, you son of a bitch..." Hunt interviewed him and LET HIM SPEAK. She raised the issues, but did not cut him off, and gave him time to formulate articulate responses. He put ROVE's feet to the fire. He kept demanding that they pull the string and investigate. I thought he acquitted himself magnificently--impressive guy!!

[H2O Man]

48. Yes, he is.

We need some representatives who will push for investigatory hearings.

[kohodog]

49. So much dirt is slowly being brought to light now

I think we need to talk up all these things, but not just here. There is a correlation between Rathergate, Guckert, Swift Boaters, Plame, Frankiln, etc. I feel that we are at a tipping point and if we can collectively make our concerns known we just may be able to push this over the top and gain enough momentim to start an investigatiuon or two. Once that happens the horse will be out of the barn.

I'll contact Rosa DeLauro who is gaining influencOn rdit, Did anyone see the "invoice" from Guckert to one of the Swoft boat Guys? It was posted on an earlier thread. I have no way of knowing if it is legit, but if it is, it really starts to tai all this together.

[H2O Man]

51. True !!!

We need to discuss this, and not just here. We need to identify specific people in the media and in political office to target for letters, e-mails, phone calls, etc.

[paineinthearse]

52. Besides Waxman, Slaughter & Coyners?????

No, we need some repug committee chair with ethics. Not holding my breath.

[H2O Man]

53. Valid point.

I think it might be better to consider a republican facing a potentially close election in 2006. Just my opinion, but I'd never think that looking for a committee chair would be as potentially successful as starting with someone a bit lower.

[kohodog]

55. Rob Simmons, CT Is on the list of vulnerable republican reps.

My experience in writing and calling him doesn't give me warm fuzzies (ex CIA).

BUT DAMN IT, if these assholes don't hate lies, propaganda and all the rest of the shit they're propagating, I hope they rot in Hell.

If we started a list of the ten commandments they've broken they're toast. If we count the crimes against nature, double that. If we look at their hearts we'll probably see black.

Rant finished, time to get to work.

[H2O Man]

57. Well, well !

Here's a good place to start!

[paineinthearse]

68. Starting?

We'd better win 30 net seats if the the Republic is to survive!

[Streetdoc270]

50. dunno...

But I sent Rep. Hinchey a letter thanking him for his search for the truth in the murky world we live in

[DefenseLawyer]

54. Can we assume

that Dan Rather and at least some of the people at CBS have tried or are trying to prove the documents were a plant?

[Blue Wally]

56. You would think

That the entire CBS news staff would be looking into this. They haven't come up with anything yet. All we have is our suppositions and Hinkey's accusation. Not much mileage there.

[aebrain]

58. CBS still unable to authenticate documents

DefenseLawyer : From all appearances, Rather and CBS are still attempting to find further authentication for the documents, which they believe to be true.
A lot of DU'ers believe this too.

The Left needs to get its story straight in a coherent manner.

Some things don't jell, for example

a) Bush is a stupid near-moron.
b) Bush is a Fascist Evil Genius

and

a) The Documents are valid, and Rove is trying to discredit them.
b) The Documents are fake but Rove planted them.

The Left needs to choose and concentrate on just one of the two alternatives. Saying both - and the same people sometimes saying both in the same article - doesn't play well with the voters.

[H2O Man]

59. Can you name

the posts on DU that promote the idea that Bush is an "Evil Genius"? Maybe just the half-dozen that create the confusion for voters. Thanks!

[H2O Man]

60. PS: One more request --

can you provide the evidence to support your claim that "From all appearances, Rather and CBS are still attempting to find further authentication for the documents,"? I appreciate you help on this.

[DemGirl7]

62. I e-mailed my Rep.

who just happens to be Rep. Hinchey to thank him for his remarks,and to tell him to keep up the fight against media manipulation. I'm proud to have Rep. Hinchey as my Congressman...VERY PROUD!!!

[H2O Man]

64. Great !

Democracy in action.

[chlamor]

65. To contact and support Maurice Hinchey

Someone in an earlier thread had posted this:


Web Site: www.house.gov/hinchey
E-mail: Contact Via 'Write Your Rep.'

Washington Office:
2431 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-3222
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Main District Office:
291 Wall St.
Kingston, NY 12401
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]


Washington Office:
Office of Rep. Hinchey
2431 Rayburn H.O.B.
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Middletown Office:
Office of Rep. Hinchey
City Hall, Third Floor
16 James St.
Middletown, NY 10940
Phone: [phone]

Binghamton Office:
Office of Rep. Hinchey
100A Federal Building
Binghamton, NY 13901
Phone: [phone]

Kingston Office:
Office of Rep. Hinchey
291 Wall Street
Kingston, NY 12401
Phone: [phone]

Ithaca Office:
Office of Rep Hinchey
123 S. Cayuga St. #201
Ithaca, NY 14850
Phone: [phone]

Monticello Office:
Office of Rep. Hinchey
18 Anawana Lake Road
Monticello, NY 12701
Phone: [phone]

[jazzjunkysue]

66. I went to Ithaca (IC) in the 80's. Very librul town. Awesome.

It hosts Cornell, ya know. Ithaca is Gorges. That's their motto. Beautiful town. I miss it!

[paineinthearse]

67. 17 hours - still flying solo.

Results 1 - 1 of 1 for US-Rep-Maurice-Hinchey-D-22nd-District-stepped-into-hot. (0.13 seconds)

Sorted by relevance Sort by date

Hinchey remarks draw fire
Ithaca Journal, NY - 17 hours ago
Maurice Hinchey, D-22nd District, stepped into hot water with remarks made during a public forum about Social Security Saturday at the Town of Ithaca Hall. ...

[paineinthearse]

69. "Gannett watch" thread

This thread was intended to track media coverage in general (and whatever else you want to make of it).

I've started a Gannett-specific tracking thread at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3161658&mesg_id=3161658

[Lorien]

70. DUers need to do their part

write to your local paper and the NY Times or WP in the next few days. Let them know that we're still paying attention!

[paineinthearse]

71. Moonie Times - Risky business

http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20050221-115002-2979r

The Washington Times
www.washingtontimes.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Inside Politics
By Jennifer Harper
Published February 22, 2005

----------------------------------------------------------------------Risky business

There's an alert blogger around every corner, it seems. Rep. Maurice D. Hinchey, New York Democrat, accused White House adviser Karl Rove of "planting" the forged memos used by CBS anchor Dan Rather in an attempt to discredit President Bush's Vietnam-era National Guard service. Mr. Hinchey was speaking at a community forum in Ithaca, N.Y., on Sunday when he launched into what was described as "a barking moonbat conspiracy rant worthy of the Democratic Underground," according to Little Green Footballs (LGF) -- a popular political Web log.

An LGF reader tape-recorded the lawmaker "telling the audience he believed the fake CBS memos were planted by Mr. Rove to discredit Mr. Rather and divert attention from President Bush's 'draft dodging.' --
The reader asked Mr. Hinchey whether he had evidence. First, he said "Yes, I do," but when pressed, admitted that he did not. The reader persisted, asking, "Don't you think it's irresponsible to make charges like that?"

Mr. Hinchey replied, "No, I don't. I think it's very important to make charges like that. I think it's very important to combat this kind of activity in every way that you can, and I'm willing, as most people are not, to step forward in situations like this and take risks. I consider that to be part of my job, and I'm going to continue to do it."

Contact Jennifer Harper at [e-mail] or 202/636-3085

========================

I did. Told her her research was shallow. She postulates "The reader asked Mr. Hinchey whether he had evidence..."

Had she taken the time to listen to the audio link posted via "Little Green Footballs" - http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=14781 - , she would have know that the "reader" was in the hall, and Mr. Hinchey was in mid-thought and was rudely interrupted, and when he heard the question clearly made the "correction" later on.

Recommended she focus on the real issues: Bush was AWOL, CBS botched the planted information, and Rove is orchestrating the cover-up.

The scandals of this administration are beginning to come to light. We are now at a point akin to Frank Wills finding the electrical tape on the DNC door.

[Lorien]

74. Good information

and certainly something that should be taken into mind when writing to the press. Now is the time to exert some real pressure. They're down, they're weakening...don't let up!!

[paineinthearse]

75. My advice....

1. Cultivate personal media relationships.
2. Call first, tell reporter why your story is important.
3. Email details as a follow-up.

Remember, these are busy people. You need to sell the importance of your information.

[paineinthearse]

86. Reply from Jennifer Harper, Moonie Times -PRICELESS!

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:04:32 -0500
Subject: Re: I expected as much from the Unification Times
From: "Jennifer Harper" <[e-mail]>
To: (me)

Thanks for reading even if we do annoy you.

[davhill]

76. Why isn't it against the law

To forge documents with the intent to influence an election. The FBI should be investigating this, not the MSM. We still have no clue as to who forged the Niger Yellowcake documents.

[H2O Man]

77. That's it.

That's the question. That would be the best point to make in a LTTE. Rather than propose a theory of who likely forged the documents, the better letter would simply ask why there has been no investigation into the origin of these forgeries! Let the reader think of his/her own answer.

[grumpy old fart]

78. What good is an FBI investigation?

Info just goes down the rat hole there. I mean, the whole Plame thing is as simple as can be, and yet no indictments. Novak knows who leaked the info to him, and either he has already cooperated and is being left off the hook, or he has not been asked, and is left off the hook. In either case, the identity of the WH leakers is not going to come out while this president can be hurt by it. Internal "investigations" under this regime are just going to go down the memory hole. A vigilant press, as with Watergate, is our only hope. And these days, that's a pretty thin hope......

[paineinthearse]

80. The FBI can investigate all they want, but do you think...

Ashcroft or Gonsalez were/are willing to prosecute? We have three options:

1. An effective investigative journalism corps who can sway public opinion, a la Woodward and Bernstein.

2. Local prosecutors to persue local crimes, like Guckert's prostitution and pornographic websites.

3. DNC or similar body to sue in civil court.

[H2O Man]

81. Just curious:

regarding #3 .... law suits are, of course, in civil court .... but sue who, and on what grounds?

[paineinthearse]

83. For example

Before the 109th started, Pelosi announced DNC was going to sue DeLay and the Justice Department for illegal congression districting (new Texas were not approved by Justice Dept's Civil Rights Division as required by law).

[paineinthearse]

82. Daily Freeman - Hinchey ties Rove to false Bush report

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=14007019&BRD=1769&PAG=461&dept_id=74969&rfi=6

Hinchey ties Rove to false Bush report
By Paul Kirby, Freeman staff02/22/2005

Hinchey, D-Hurley, said Monday that comments he made at a "Town Hall" forum in Ithaca Saturday were an "exposition of a theory" based on circumstantial evidence about published accounts critical of the president's Air National Guard service, or lack thereof. pokespersons for CBS News, which aired a report based on the phony documents, and the White House could not be reached for comment on Hinchey's theory, which he gave during a forum on Social Security in Ithaca. His remarks were tape-recorded and posted on the Internet. During the forum, Hinchey blamed Karl Rove, President Bush's top political adviser, for concocting the plan to release phony documents to the media.

Hinchey said Friday that his opinions were his "beliefs" of what happened. "People have changed in the last four years," Hinchey said at the forum. "They've had a very, very direct, aggressive attack on the, on the media and the way it's handled. Probably the most flagrant example of that is the way they set up Dan Rather." Hinchey added that he believed the idea originated with Rove. "They set up those false papers," Hinchey said. "Why did they do it? They knew that Bush was a draft dodger. They knew that he had run away from his responsibilities in the Air National Guard in Texas, gone out of the state intentionally for a long period of time."

Hinchey, a frequent critic of Bush, said the Republican administration was just waiting for some media outlet to publish or report them. "They finally bought into it and they aired it," Hinchey said. "And when they did, they had 'em. They didn't care who did it. All they had to do is to get some element of the media to advance the issue."

<snip>

Hinchey said it is no secret that the Bush administration will attack those in the media that they perceive are not friendly to the administration. The congressman said some reporters are being threatened with jail time over the Central Intelligence Agency agent-outing matter while a conservative columnist, Robert Novac, is being left alone. "He is not being subpoenaed (as part of an investigation) and he is the one who did the story," Hinchey said, referring to Novac's outing as an agent the wife of an ambassador who had criticized the Bush administration.

[EFerrari]

84. Got this back from the Press & Sun-Bulletin Newsroom

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:35:39 -0500
From: "Tevyaw, Chris" <[e-mail]> Add to Address BookAdd to Address Book
To: [e-mail]

I passed this on to Dave. We also carried the story in our
newspaper.

Chris Tevyaw
Press & Sun-Bulletin
P.O. Box 1270
Binghamton, NY 13902
607-798-1375
607-798-1113 (fax)
1-877-348-7811
www.pressconnects.com

[paineinthearse]

85. Is this paper part of a larger chain?

I believe this paper is part of Rep. Hinchey's district, saw the article in Google.

[H2O Man]

87. Gannet n/t