Thank you Governor Dean

[jos]

For having the courage to tell the truth about what role the U.S. should play in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I am not currently a Dean supporter, but I'm impressed that he had the guts to say that our policy should be evenhanded, knowing the flack he would get from the AIPAC/DLC crowd, and their political puppets in Washington.

I know he's tried to "redefine" his statement, and I don't blame him for doing so. I only hope that he hangs tough and doesn't given in to AIPAC political correctness.

[joeybee12]

1. See other posts...

Pelosi and the others in Congress have gotten their checks--time to eat their own and give Dumbo the White House on a silver platter in 2004.

[Cha]

2. On the "other post" ...I learned that the term "even handed" was

not the term to use because it was akin to say quota when talking about affirmative action...correct me if I got that wrong.

So "even handed" is not the way to phrase it...In that sense Dean has had to "redefine his statement".

[Woodstock]

12. This is what a friend - a stalwart Democrat/Orthodox Jew told me

"even handedness" is the code word for "anti-Israel"

He was backing Dean until this remark - it really upset him.

I didn't find anything wrong with what Dean said, myself. I still don't quite understand my friend's views, but he feels really strongly about them.

[madfloridian]

14. A term for anti-Israel?

My God, how would most be expected to know that? I never heard of such a thing. That does not even sound anti-anything!

[Classical_Liberal]

17. Polling indicates these aren't a high percentage of folks.

.

[Classical_Liberal]

16. I think people who say that are just trying to say being even handed

is anti israel, and they are trying to say liberals should support them like affirmative action. I am more upset Dean kind of relented. The settlements should go, or accept being Palestinian.

[searchingforlight]

3. I am with you.

I am sick and tired of people who say that politicians should not speak the truth about where they stand because it may damage their chances. Isn't that what we're fighting against.

Howard Dean has not always taken the easy road. He stood up for "civil unions" when it was the unpopular thing to do and he did it knowing he would have to fight for re-election.

I say, tell me what you think, tell me what you will do, tell me where we agree and tell me where we disagree. Then you will have my respect and my vote.

[CWebster]

4. Second that

.

[Nicholas_J]

5. Dean is repeating:

Kerrys Global Security Speech


Senator John Kerry Remarks


Georgetown University -For January 23, 2003...



Israel's security will be best assured over the long term if real and lasting peace can be brought to the Middle East. I know from my own trips to Israel that the majority of the Israeli people understand and expect that one day there will be a Palestinian state. Their frustration is that they do not see a committed partner in peace on the Palestinian side. Palestinians must stop the violence - this is the fundamental building block of the peace process. The Palestinian leadership must be reformed, not only for the future of the Palestinian people but also for the sake of peace. I believe Israel would respond to this new partner after all, Israel has already indicated its willingness to freeze settlements and to move toward the establishment of a Palestinian state as part of a comprehensive peace process.

Without demanding unilateral concessions, the United States must mediate a series of confidence building steps which start down the road to peace. Both parties must walk this path together - simultaneously. And the world can help them do it. While maintaining our long term commitment to Israel's existence and security, the United States must work to keep both sides focused on the end game of peace. Extremists must not be allowed to control this process. American engagement and successful mediation are not only essential to peace in this war-torn area but also critical to the success of our own efforts in the war against terrorism. When I visited the region last year, in meetings with King Abdullah of Jordan, President Mubarak of Egypt, and Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, it became clear that September 11th had changed the imperatives of these countries. The Bush Administration has missed an opportunity to enlist much greater support in the peace process and needs to focus on this urgent priority- now.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iraq/2003/iraq-030123-kerry01.htm

A FAR more insightful and in depth exploration and explanation of the situation than Dean's latest flub.

Perhaps Dean simply opened his mouth again while trying to memorize Kerry's ideas papaphrased for him by his speechwriters because such complex ideas are simply beyond his limited abilities. Then stuck his foot in it.

[opstachuck]

10. yet kerry joins joe in criticizing dean for taking...

a similar position? why is that?

[tinnypriv]

19. Kerry and Dean's positions are both an utter joke

Let's take this Kerry BS apart (ignoring the platitudes, just addressing the facts):

<< The Palestinians must stop the violence - this is the fundamental building block of the peace process. >>

i.e. There is no "violence" on the Israeli side, since Kerry uses a definitive ("the") phrasing when referring to it. For this to be an accurate statement, it should say "The Palestinians should stop their violence".

<< The Palestinian leadership must be reformed, not only for the future of the Palestinian people but also for the sake of peace. >>

True, but since "reform" is not defined, this is barely above a platitude.

<< Israel has already indicated its willingness to freeze settlements >>

No it hasn't.

Even if it had, it would mean nothing since Israel barely needs to add new settlements - it just builds in the existing ones, while adding infrastructure etc around them. Kerry doesn't mean infrastructure, basically ignoring the reality on the ground.

<< When I visited the region last year, in meetings with King Abdullah of Jordan, President Mubarak of Egypt, and Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia >>

Nice - all unelected thugs. What the fuck do they know about peace?

[retyred]

6. Pssssst!

Dean's not governor any more.....pass it on!:>)




Retyred IN FLA.
“Good Night Paul, Wherever You Are”

[Cha]

7. ANd? who ya got now for a govenor?

And how are you liking him?

[jos]

8. It's an honorific title

Both Carter and Reagan were called "Governor" in their campaigns even though they were no longer Governors.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

9. Bump in honor of Dr. Funk's lameass repost of the I/P issue

[yellowdawgdem]

11. Yup

I agree, and am liking Dean more and more for his honesty and hard-hitting responses. I also liked his response to Leiberman during that last debate. He just said, "I'm disappointed in you, Joe," or something like that. And it totally made me crack up laughing. :yourock:

[Adjoran]

13. Dean needs to clarify

or revise or change his statement Wednesday that "There is a war going on in the Middle East, and members of Hamas are soldiers in that war."

Hamas is a terrorist organization which targets unarmed civilians. They are not soldiers in any respect.

As an uncommitted voter, I cannot consider supporting Dean if he does not retract or modify this statement in some form.

[friendofbenn]

15. nothing wrong with that statement

when the isreali soldiers were shooting up the kids with catapults was this warfare to you? if you want peace you have to compromise or the war goes on and on

[Classical_Liberal]

18. I'm mighty suspicious of that quote frankly

sounds made up. Where's the first part of the sentence?

[tinnypriv]

20. Or, what is the LAST part of the sentence

Asked if he would oppose the Israeli policy of selectively killing leaders of Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups, Dean said, "I think no one likes to see violence of any kind."

But he also said that "there is a war going on in the Middle East, and members of Hamas are soldiers in that war, and, therefore, it seems to me that they are going to be casualties if they are going to make war."

--

Another freaking smear attempt straight from AIPAC headquarters.

[KaraokeKarlton]

25. This is something people need to recognize

Although Hamas isn't an army, it's basically a Palestinian militia that resorts to using terror tactics. No one is going to argue that the methods they employ are wrong, but at the same time, you need to recongnize that in the view of the Palestinians, Hamas are the only ones fighting for them. In fact, if the US were more fair and balanced in it's dealing with the whole mess, Palestinians would be less inclined to be so supportive of Hamas. Early on before Israel was recognized as a state, there were many similar groups of Jewish people who used the same kind of tactics, like the Stern Gang. There is plenty of wrong doing on both sides...there is plenty to go around. As long as we unfairly favor and value the people and lives of Israel above the people and lives of Palestinians there will be no peace. On top of this, those who are loyal to Israel need to calm down when someone criticizes the Israeli government. That's not discrimination it's the same as the people here criticizing Bush. Just because Israel is mostly Jewish doesn't automatically mean criticism of Israel is fueled by anti-semitism. Sometimes the criticism is just based on the fact that the Israeli government does some things that are wrong and SHOULD be criticized. The citizens over there want peace and want to feel safe. So why the hell can't we start working FOR all those people instead of protecting government officials and policies that prevent that peace?

[kispoko]

21. yup yup!

i was just thinking earlier that it'd be nice to convey to gov. dean how well a lot of people appreciated his remarks, and not to relent.... as well of how pelosi is wearing thin with me, and other 'democrats.'

in whose vernacular is the colloquialism "evenhanded" interpreted even remotely as favoring or worse, being against something? who is it that came up with this shit? this is something i'm just not seeing and really need explained.... perhaps to some, it is akin to the "evenhandedness" of breaking down the christian monopoly in this country to truer equality.... when christian fundamentalists see that happening though, it is perceived as an attack, even though it is that which is being dismantled that was imposing to begin with. do staunch zionists see it in the same manner?

[pruner]

23. go to his site(s)

http://blogforamerica.com/
http://www.deanforamerica.com/

[maggrwaggr]

22. Yeah I'm sick and tired of the Israel sacred cow

I mean who's running our country, Israel?

What's so fucking great about Israel?

They're just a little tiny Jewish fascist country in the middle east who beat the shit out of people who don't get free tanks from the United States.

They've ghettoized a people the same way they were ghettoized in WWII yet if you told them that, oh gosh they'd be SO offended.

I'm sick of the Israel lobby running our country.

To hell with Israel. Let 'em sink or swim on their own.

[KaraokeKarlton]

26. We can't abandon Israel

But we CAN be more fair and just in dealing with the situation.

[not systems]

27. details please

Is "fair and just" OK but "evenhanded" not?

I have trouble with special interest groups
language sensitivity sometimes.

If we can't why not?

They are armed to the teeth, right?

Have nukes?

Sounds like they can fend for themselves.

Not that I'm suggesting that they do but Sharon
in not worthy of support. Perhaps an election
might help.

[laura888]

24. yup - we gotta support politicians that can hang tough

Kerry will change his stance when he learns what the majority of Americans think.

[CWebster]

28. There is a clue in there

He wants to run for president and he hasn't got a clue? Or does he simply not care about what the little people think?