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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:22 PM
Original message
Gen. Clark Reportedly Asked to Join Dean
Edited on Wed Sep-10-03 11:23 PM by God_bush_n_cheney
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. OH MY!!!
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paulsbc Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great move
by Dean, I think he realizes Clark would smoke him in the primaries :)
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:32 PM
Original message
Actually it's the other way around but....
Dean really needs Clark to help with foreign issues, and Clark is the perfect guy to do so. Remember, Clark does NOT have any political experience while Dean does, and especially with key experience governing the state of Vermont and knowing his domestic issues very well and has honed them to perfection, and everyone knows that Dean's weakness is foreign affairs. By choosing Clark early in this process and pointing out that this is the man that Dean will depend on for foreign issues, while Clark can really learn how the political process works.

This is a clear win/win situation for both of the men.

I fully support a Dean-Clark ticket.

Hawkeye-X
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
18. Mistake. Makes Dean look like the neophyte on foreign policy that he is
People vote the top of the ticket, not the Veep. Dean will suffer by comparison. It emphasizes Dean's glaring weakness(es).
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. No, not necessarily. It'd fill in the only blank in Dean's portfolio.
Edited on Wed Sep-10-03 11:49 PM by calimary
It'd be a fabulous combo. They both buttress each other where each is weak.

on edit - fixed the subject line.
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FubarFly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. I think it diminishes it significantly.
When people ask Dean about foreign policy experience he can honestly say he has it covered. A lot of people who would otherwise be hesitant will be will be reassured by Clark's presense. Dean will then be free to focus on his strengths.

Sounds good to me.

:shrug:
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
35. Right, they vote the top of the ticket, and Clark complements Dean very
well. He's from Arkansas too.
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
25. I don't think that either *needs* the other but they make the perfect fit.
They would both be superior to a Bush campaign. I'm on record supporting either ticket...Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean. I do think that Clark may have waited a little to long to throw his hat into the ring. Dean has now gained National status, and that will be hard for Clark to surmount.

If Clark has the fire in the belly, let him run and see what he can accomplish as far as a campaign...I doubt at this point that I'd abandon Dean though, especially now that the DLC and DNC is coming at Dean with knives drawn.
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Romberry Donating Member (632 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
31. Every officer that rises...
...to the rank of general has LOTS of political experience. Any officer that makes it to four stars not only has lots of experience, they are good at it.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #31
41. If you are talking about the politics in the military ranks
It is not the kind of politics I would be bragging about.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #41
62. absolutely! look at colonostemy Powell!
:eyes:
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
34. That's the way I see it Haweye
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FubarFly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wow.
A Dean/Clark alliance this early would be formidible. Barring serious scandal, perhaps unstoppable. Very interesting news. I can't wait to see how this unfolds.
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phishhead Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. A very strong ticket
Indeed.

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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. Dean and Clark are definately up to something
what it is though...... we'll have to wait another week or so.
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janekat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
44. Apparently Clark has always just wanted VP nod....
.... that's the scoop from insiders.
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. What "Insiders" Are You Talking About?
Inquiring minds, and all that.

DTH
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janekat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #45
66. there's been a "buzz" about this since Nov 2002....
There had been an article written then about how he might be a VP candidate then.

Then more and more articles and snippets and started to appear about how he'd be the perfect "V.P." candidate - especially for Dean. When you start to hear it THAT much - you know that either the candidate themselves is "putting the word out" or someone else is.

When I heard Lawrence O'Donnell say Clark just wanted to be a VP candidate a couple of weeks ago - I knew it was probably true because he has a lot of connections.

THEN - about a week ago - all 4 or 5 pundits on one of the talking head shows - (can't remember which one) said it with NO hesitation at all -I figured it WAS true...

Like you - I thought he might be a good candidate for Pres. Oh well....

Unless his numbers start to go WAY up - it looks as if he's in the VP slot.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
60. Could be, a may the best man win pact. Whoever..
loses would be the VP for the other. It's too early for Clark to put all of his eggs in one basket. It's too early for anyone to concede that Dean would win the nomination if Clark doesn't enter. Clark recently said that he is not playing a political game concerning VP intentions and that if he gets involved it will be as a presidential candidate. I hope I can believe him on this.

Dean is too volitile. One of these days he's going to say something stupid that he cannot take back or explain away.++
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Clark Can WIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. They should both run,
Whichever one gets the nom (assuming one does) should take the other one with them.
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FubarFly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Not a bad idea..as long as they are sure they won't split the vote /nt.
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Clark Can WIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Split the vote? What do you mean?
Only one person can get the Democratic nomination, they should both run for the nom and then whoever gets it should pick the other one up. How is that splitting the vote?
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. split the vote of smart thinking dems
so that Lieberman gets a slight majority and wins the nom.
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FubarFly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. What if neither gets it because they each take from the others support?
Good idea though. If it seems likely that one is going to win, then the other should drop out.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Unless of course they are angling...
...at something else, something new, a break from tradition, a bold move...

I wouldn't put it past them. As I've said before, I think we've got some surprises in store for us this election season...
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. the only thing that
worries me about that, is, what if they split the vote and some dolt like lieberman gets the nod... that could very well happen...


i think dean and clark are very much in tune with each others' policies and beliefs, and i think this will weigh heavily on clark's eventual decision.


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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. You mean the way Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman and Edwards
are splitting the vote, allowing some dolt like Dean to get the nomination?
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. amm, yeh, man, just like that
:freak:
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FubarFly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Exactly. What a sharp knife you are.
All the other knives in the drawer must be proud of you.

;-)
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. LOL
:-)
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
38. some dolt?
that dolt is getting huge crowds and support because of his positions and his attitude, not because of his many opponents. If it were Kerry vs Dean vs Lieberman, Dean would still lead the pack.
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Starpass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
64. dolstein - hahahahahaha n/t
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
61. I think that if Clark runs, Lieberman is toast. So..
I wouldn't worry about Lieberman getting the nomination. If Clark runs, he takes most of Lieberman and Graham supporters, and he takes at lease 25% of everyone else's support.
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. that would be SO cool! n/t
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. Let's rate it 5!!
Its current average rating is 4.39 with 13 votes.
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jab105 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. DO IT!! Pleease!!
I'll go crazy if I have to choose between the two of you...join up guys, please...it's for OUR COUNTRY!!
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
21. Holy Mother of Pearl, Dean comes up with great ideas.
I was hoping this kind of thing might happen. Go, Wesley! You WILL BE the new Veep if you do this. You WILL BE the winning ticket. A total dream team - and Clark brings extra oomph to the anti-war position. He's the one who called this "an elective war," not an essential one. Plus, it'd be fun to see him get into the - who-called-you-from-the-White-House-on-9/11-to-connect-the-disaster-to-Iraq scandal!
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #21
36. And what a handsome team! <yeah, I can be shallow>
Crucify me.
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RevolutionStartsNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. I'm shallow too, LOL
These handsome men would put * to shame. Could they look more presidential?
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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #36
58. Hey, take every small edge you can get.
A team with two relatively good-looking guys vs. a team with one that looks vaguely simian and the other with a perma-sneer -- like I said, it's a small edge. I'll happily take it, if it works out that way.
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
22. Wonderful - two politicians I'm unsure about
A militarist and a conservative democrat?
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lifelong_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Would a militarist have opposed the invasion of Iraq?
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 12:01 AM by lifelong_Dem
And would a conservative Democrat be pushing universal health care?
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #27
51. so we're sure these fellers are OK then
I just hopre they don't turn out to be a couple of liars like Bush. I liked what Kucinich had to say and I was hopeful when he was hot. I was real diasppointed to be persuaded that he was unelectable by all the derision.
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lifelong_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-03 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
26. There is no decision...
...until Clark decides whether or not he wants to enter the Presidential race. I'd imagine that if Clark runs, he can still join Dean later if he doesn't win the primaries.

I'm still hoping Clark runs for President, but if not, I like this as option B.
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FubarFly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. That might be Clark's thinking as well.
Clark is a crafty fellow. He'll keep his options open until he his sure that he is taking the best available path. Clark may want to defeat b*sh more than he wants to be president. A Dean alliance may someday allow him to do both.
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #28
43. It also provides a great platform to become president
Imagine having 8 years of Dean, followed by 8 years of Clark. Though, the way things are going, it will probably take 16 years to undo the damage that Bush manages to do in 4.
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CoffeePlease1947 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
29. Here is what I am thinking they are doing:
I think Clark and Dean are making a pact. I think Clark will enter the race. If Dean wins the nomination he will choose Clark as his VP. If Clark wins the nomination he will allow Dean any Cabinet position he wants.

Clark is debating between taking Dean up on his offer to be VP and not have to do much or the other alternative to run and try to beat Dean. I think Clark wants to be President, not the number 2 guy. That is not his style. But he also hates losing, that is not his style either. He is going to be on the ticket. It is just hard to figure out if he can win the nomination over Dean.

I sympathize with Clark. A tough spot. Dean is trying to woo Clark so he will decide to be VP rather than have to face a major oppoent that can possibly defeat him.

I think Clark should run and take the VP slot if he doesn't win the nomination. I also think that is the best shot for him. But damn, Clark hates to lose.

Mike
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Hard to judge...
Today there is news about two new endorsements for Clark and an appearance in DC for October. It is hard to believe that he is not running. I cannot see a situation where Clark will take VP (right away). He has said that he is not doing that repeatedly. Also Dean has some serious problems to deal with. Clark could be promising the Doc a cabinet spot. Dean isn't a good VP for Clark. Small northern state with followers that will support the nominee regardless. I still think that Clark is somewhat on the fence. But then again, he met his future campaign team in AR today. I wish this waiting was over. :beer:
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CoffeePlease1947 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Are you losing hair too?
I think you are right. I think Clark doesn't want to be VP either. But I think he has to decide, a possible lose to Dean for the nomination, or a sure victory for number two.

Does Clark hate losing worse than coming in second?

But I agree, he will run and if he loses he will be number 2.

Mike
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Tanketra Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #33
48. If he runs and loses
He's going home, same as Dean, Kerry, Lieberman, etc.

Barring a race close enough to make the convention shaky (which is a possibility, given 10 apparent candidates), I just don't think the VP is going to be a consolation/consolidation pick.

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Tanketra Donating Member (122 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #29
47. They're not making a pact like this
Why? Because Dean's not an idiot.

Why would he make a pact with Clark that involves Clark *getting into* the race? He's not going to promise somebody else the VP slot this early, then run against them in the primaries anyway.

I'm sorry, I just don't see him thinking to himself right now, "Gosh, I just don't know what I'm going to do if somebody else is President and I'm not the Secretary of Education."
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RevolutionStartsNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
30. Hmmmm....
Dean's team is smart enough to strongly consider this, and Clark may be smart enough to know that it's a crowded field already and a big uphill battle. I am still leaning toward thinking that Clark will run, he seems ambitious and he is getting a ton of buzz.

The real danger here, IMO, is for candidates like Kerry (and Gep, maybe) who have been put on their heels a bit by Dean. Dean is the frontrunner and staying there, at least for now. Clark is going to come into the race -- if he does -- with a bunch of support already, and will probably take a nice chunk of the "undecided" vote.

All that being said, it's still early and anything could happen.

Intriguing...



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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
39. ADDITIONAL INFO
<...>

Still, Dean's advisers hold out little hope that Clark will do anything other than seek the presidency himself.

That sentiment is echoed in Clark's camp. A senior adviser, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Clark has signaled to associates that he is poised to enter the race next week barring last-minute objections from his wife or an unexpected determination that he couldn't mount an effective campaign.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,97024,00.html

For once, I hope they're right!

:bounce:

DTH
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
40. Faux article on Dean and his friend Clark
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RevolutionStartsNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
42. More info on this
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 01:13 AM by Amerikav60
Edit: That's teach me not to refresh before I post! Dupe...


Sorry to quote FOX, but found this:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,97024,00.html

Excerpt:

Still, Dean's advisers hold out little hope that Clark will do anything other than seek the presidency himself.

That sentiment is echoed in Clark's camp. A senior adviser, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Clark has signaled to associates that he is poised to enter the race next week barring last-minute objections from his wife or an unexpected determination that he couldn't mount an effective campaign.

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CoffeePlease1947 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
46. Misleading title
It makes it sound like Clark is asking Dean to be his VP. It is Dean asking Clark to be his VP.

Mike
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #46
54. that's the title of the original news story...
you should complain to the Washington Post. ;-)
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CoffeePlease1947 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #54
59. I know, I wasn't blaming the poster
I think it is confusing, and can mean two different things.

I would have said: "Reportedly, Dean asked Clark to join his Campaign"

Mike
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DeaconBlues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
49. I almost wish that they would team up
so that the Dean/Clark flame wars would end here at DU.
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. I can't decide if it's going to get worse
Edited on Thu Sep-11-03 03:59 AM by BillyBunter
if Clark declares, or not. Sometimes suspense puts people on edge and makes them cranky, and having clarified roles might relax some of the tension. On the other hand, once Clark is in he's a threat to the Deanies, and nobody likes to be threatened.
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
52. CNN: Clark has "no comment". n/t
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
53. Win, win for Dean.
Even if Clark says no, it will be in the back of everyone's mind, including Clark's.
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Julien Sorel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. Howard Dean can't lose.
Even when his plans go awry, it works out in his favor. If he loses his ability to waterwalk and falls into the sea, it will only be because he wanted to swim for a while.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 05:48 AM
Response to Original message
56. Clark and Dean!
That would be my personal choice! President Clark and Vice President Dean!!!
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CMT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
57. I think it would be an unbeatable ticket
eom.
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Starpass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
63. Did you ever think about it this way
(repost from reply to other such post on this page).
Which camp let the reporters know of this meeting??---Clark?? I doubt it. It would have been the Dean camp. Howard said live at end of an interview a few weeks ago when asked about a Clark run that he "hated to have to run against the guy". Could it be the Dean knows he's coming into the race; wants to get associated with Clark and thus try to have people believe that they are exactly the same on all issues; wants people to believe that they can still go ahead and vote for him because he will make Clark his VP, etc. The others have met with Clark and don't have it on page one of a newspaper. I think Dean may be trying to hang on to Clark's coattails and make it look like Clark has to hang onto his. I want to know how the story got out and why a reporter would know what they talked about in a meeting?? Someone had to blab.

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Vis Numar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. Which camp let the reporters know of this meeting??
Clarks. The General has friends that have friends in the press...
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Silly response
ALL of the candidates have friends in the press.

If you want to know who did something, look to see who benefits. I don't see how this rumor help Clark.
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-03 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. It depends... they may be "testing the waters"...
sometimes rumors like this are dropped precisely to gauge public opinion on them. Is the press giving it a lot of attention? what are pundits saying? Are voters getting excited?

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