You Suburbanites are EXPENSIVE! $1 in taxes cost between$1.04 & $1.67?

[JanMichael]

Suckin' at the teat of the already developed communites!

Just to add fuel to the fire over Urban v. Suburban developments:-)

Conservation pays, Greenfield Developments cost big bucks.

This is taken from a summary of this pdf document.

· “Land conservation is often less expensive for local governments than suburban style development. The old adage that cows do not send their children to school expresses a documented fact—that farms and other types of open land, far from being a drain on local taxes, actually subsidize local government by generating far more in property taxes than they demand in services.”

· "Studies show that for every $1.00 collected in taxes, residential development costs between $1.04 and $1.67 in services -- and these costs continue forever, generally increasing over time. Even including the initial cost of acquisition, open space is less costly to taxpayers over both the short and the long term than development of the same parcel. The major public costs to preserve natural areas are finite, often paid by a bond or loan over 20 years.”

· The permanent protection of a parcel is more likely to redirect growth than preclude development. Over the long term, the amount of development a given town is likely to see will probably not be changed by the conservation of a single parcel. Instead, the conservation of certain key parcels may influence both the location and pattern of future development. This may make providing municipal services more efficient and cheaper; it may help the town meet its other goals; and it may make other property in town more valuable, resulting in increased tax revenues.
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Ok, the fact is that I'm a child of the Suburbs myself, so my affinity for the bikepaths, neat streets, an the 7-11 that sold beer to me with a fake ID is dear to my heart.

But as the Federal Gummint devolves and pushes more societal responsibilities down to States, Counties and Cities, we really need to be more thoughtful in our pursuit of prissied up cow-field enclaves.

What I'm asking is that we be "smart" about growth and not so stupid and selfish:-)

EDIT: I should add that there's a Ethnicity issue hear too that we need to be congnizant of...

[chlamor]

1. Suburbia-Greatest misallocation of resources ever

Copious amounts of fossil fuel required to keep this unlivable/unsustainable project afloat.

[JanMichael]

2. You've pointed out the additional problem with the new McMansion...

...developments.

Everything they do has a spinoff, not much of it "good" on the aggregate.

[GumboYaYa]

3. There was a very good research report on the Chicago metro area

from about ten years ago that found the same thing. Here is a link to the whole report: http://www.chicagofed.org/news_and_conferences/conferences_and_events/files/1995_midwest_metropolitan_areas_persky.pdf

The whole thing is worth reading, but the section I am talking about is on page 11. Basically, only the highest income areas of the suburbs with the biggest homes generate enough revenue to cover the costs to service the developments.

It's the taxes from the big box stores and other businesses that pay for the services. That's why you see all the TIF financing and eminent domain being used to build more and more TargetSamsWalmartLinens&Thingsetc.

[Blue Wally]

8. Retail is great.

It generates zero kids to educate.

While it is a target for crime, it does not generate criminals

Even if it receives a generous property tax abatement, it generates a tremendous cash flow from sales taxes. Most states share sales tax revenue with the locality which generates it.

While the flat roofs and the large parking lots generate lots of storm sewer action, the sanitary sewer and water supply requirements are minimal.

[Massacure]

4. That's because farms may have a couple people live on an acre

While in a city it may be a couple dozen.

It doesn't suprise me.

[JanMichael]

5. And it shouldn't. But apparently it does some people.

Go figure?

[JanMichael]

6. Kick!

<sleep>

[Sgent]

7. Dirsregarding for a monment

the environmental issues...

Doesn't redeveloping urban land create its own set of difficulties. Just this week there was a thread debating the use of emminent domaine in caes were low rent tenants were evicted to make way for high rise apartments -- thus the land will have higher density.

What's the solution?

[GumboYaYa]

10. The solution is rehabbing existing structures and

building architecturally consistent infill in places where structures can not be restored. It is just amazing to me how many awesome buildings I see that are in shambles. Where I live (St. Louis) there is some amazing architecture and craftsmanship that simply needs someone to love it again. Part of the problem is that we look at these areas in cities and see the current state, not what can be. In many cases the areas are predominately African American making it even harder for developers to envision lively residential and commercial areas. Urban development has to be color blind if we want to start saving our cities.

[JanMichael]

11. You answered for me very well.

Thanks!

[bleedingheart]

9. I already know this...The Pittsburgh Area suburbs are slowly learning this

All the people in my community are so excited about the 120 home development sites springing up everywhere....but they aren't bringing enough in revenue to keep the level of services where they used to be before all the people in Allegheny county started moving our way.

For example...road crews for snow removal. It has become a big problem lately because in order to keep taxes low, they don't hire any more road crew workers and they don't buy more trucks...but with so many more people living in our area it is inevitable that people will want the services but they won't want to pay the taxes it will take to accomodate all the new streets that have popped up all over the damn place.

But eventually it will have to happen and those that moved to our area for low taxes (cuz we were a small community) will bitch up a storm....instead of using common sense.