Information Request: PC, Christian Expression, Perception of Christians

[ContraBass Black]

I'm helping to lead a discussion at the campus Methodist ministry, and one of the topics will be Political Correctness, Restriction of Christian Expression, and Perception of Christians and Christianity.

I need informaiton on several incidents that could be used to foster a discussion. Some examples that come to mind offhand are the fight over the Ten Commandments statue, The Pledge of Allegiance, the minister rounding up indonesian orphans to raise them in a Christian mission, the missionaries in Afghanistan that broke the prosthyletizing rules and caused the expulsion of all the other missionaries in the country, restrictions of "Merry Christmas" displays and Christmas carols, prohibition of preaching in schools and other places, etc.


I need this by Sunday Morning. Would you hellp me get started, please?

[sarcasmo]

1. Here is one. Drinking Kool Aid, How much should we drink? Discuss.

[ContraBass Black]

10. Jesus turned water into Kool Aid!

We must drink likewise to honor Our Lord. ;)

[seabeyond]

2. the southern baptist top dudes last year

1. gathering their ministers telling them to preach that jesus would know how they voted this year. when they die and face jesus, jesus will know if they voted for bush or not.

they were preaching this from the pulpit. they were rpeaching kerry is a murderer

2. the banned of christian folk out of arizona that gathered reg for vote and in nevada and az in front of witnesses threw the democratic registrations in the trash

3. starting up the christian youth WARRIORS preaching the children need to fight and battle satan. satan being all that are not like them,. and using cult like fashion to condition these kids in hate, instead of the path of christ in love, all across our nation

[ContraBass Black]

13. If you can point me to a specific example of the youth warriors,

that would help. I may use white supremacist terrorists who claim to be Jesus-worshiping churches.

At the first mention of Democrat or Republican, weapons will be drawn, and blood will be spilled (figuratively).

[Dogmudgeon]

3. Whining Christians (a rant)

DISCLAIMER: This rant applies to the "dominionist" branch of Christianity that has emerged in the USA since the mid-1930s, and NOT Christians of good conscience. This should not need to be said, but the distinction bears repetition. (--p!)

How about "WC" for Whining Christians.

The "Christians" own this country. You can not pass a single law that doesn't meet with their godwashed approval. As a result, our legal system is impacted with the moral feces of a whole industry of redneck bench-jumping Lifestyle Christians. Our currency is God-branded by law, and millions of dollars in honoraria flow to mainly conservative evangelists who preach in public buildings because the laws they themselves wrote allow it as "ceremonial speech".

Restriction of Christian Expression? They have turned the Nazarene into the new Golden Calf.

American "Christianity" IS the modern Caesar.

--p!

[ContraBass Black]

11. If someone were to stand up and make such an argument during our

discussion, I would be pleased, and the ensuing combat would be entertaining.

[Fovea]

4. RE perceptions of Christians and Christianity

How about 1993 when my Wiccan coven in Edwardsville Kansas, holding a holiday celebration on private land was invaded by a gang of baseball bat wielding Christian teenagers? They came back the next holiday with guns, and there was an hour long standoff, after which no one was arrested by the police, who took an hour to show up. I doubt they even filed our complaint.

Or the time in 1976 when my friends were burned out of their home by folks from the local church because of their heathen religion in Springfield Missouri?

Or how about the time in 1980 when I was working in the ER, and a fundie woman came in with a tape recorder in her bag demanding an immediate D&C, but on examination had already had a cuff from a vaginal hysterectomy, because she wanted to 'prove' that we would do an abortion on demand on anyone?

Will these examples do?

They certainly shaped my perceptions of your religion as one that is frequently happy to wink at the basest urges that are in us.

No less a person than Bishop Desmond Tutu called religion morally neutral. I think maybe he was being inordinately optimistic.

[ContraBass Black]

12. Some of those kinds of things would be good, but

I think I'll be better served with specifics that the participants would already have some awareness of.

[Fovea]

15. I understand your point-- it's not valid until there is a Faux chyron

Superimposed on the dead. If it isn't reported by a talking head, it is not worth discussion. I quote 'A Clockwork Orange' about how the colors of the real world aren't really real until you viddy them on TV.

But there it is. This was not a small violation of our civil rights, but I guess in Christian America, we will have to content myself that none of my coven were lynched. That has more to do with the number of martial artists in the coven, not the essential humanity of the druken Christian mob. It was more a rout than a melee. I guess that's why they came back next time with guns...

But do consider that there are probably tens of thousands of us with similar stories. When the pretzeldent uses the term faith based initiative, we invision ovens belching hair flavored smoke, and lampshades with pentacle tattoos.

This is a major problem, whether or not it is comfortable for your faith to address. I can't help feel that until Christianity copes with it, the religion will be part of the hate problem, not part of the solution.

So instead, why don't y'all talk about the Christian charity that turned around and left when tsunami victims declined the rice bowl and crucifix combo. That one is in the news, and begs recognition of an essential truth about your messiah-- He was not afraid to kick a few pricks out of the temple.

If all one's faith provides is comfort, it is not a religion, it's a drug. If all it does is sanctify hate, such as my neighbor Rev. Phelps, it is not even a religion, as what it re-links with is not part of the divine.

May your faith always leave you clear headed and open hearted,

RealP- In the Pagan ministry for 31 years now.

[ContraBass Black]

16. Indeed.

""I understand your point-- it's not valid until there is a Faux chyron"
Posted by realpolitik

Superimposed on the dead. If it isn't reported by a talking head, it is not worth discussion. I quote 'A Clockwork Orange' about how the colors of the real world aren't really real until you viddy them on TV."

I don't doubt that there are thousands of stories. Many of us probably know some ourselves. This is a practical consideration, because the discussion will be 5-45 people and last 60-90 minutes.


"He was not afraid to kick a few pricks out of the temple."

None of us would even begin to condone or endorse an armed incursion against innocent people in a private space. Any that do so and claim it to be the Work of God delude themselves. We know it well that when Christians don't think, bad things happen.


"So instead, why don't y'all talk about the Christian charity that turned around and left when tsunami victims declined the rice bowl and crucifix combo. That one is in the news,"

Thank you. I wasn't aware of that one. That's perfect for this.

[hfojvt]

5. one fight over the ten commandments

you might start here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/top10/03/123.html

and follow the links.

[ContraBass Black]

14. Thank you.

[Behind the Aegis]

6. Not sure what you are asking for.

What kind of discussion are you trying to foster? One that discusses "Christian persecution?" If so, then I suggest searching the archives about a thread involving this topic in China. This will be very illuminating to those who feel they are persecuted when they realize what real persecution is.

Where is the discussion supposed to lead? What is it supposed to accomplish?

[ContraBass Black]

9. The discussion topic was vaguely defined

as something to the effect of "American Christians being stifled vs. American Christians overstepping their bounds," and conversely, "perception of American Christians inside and outside the United States."

The purpose is to stimulate thought, and determine actions or attitudes that Christians should take on the topic.

[hfojvt]

7. links for the Indonesian missionaries

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1146562

[ContraBass Black]

8. Thank you.

[UdoKier]

17. Ummm....

PC - it's supposed to be about being considerate of others' feelings. It occasionally goes overboard, but basically it boils down to simple politeness.

Restriction of Christian Expression - There is no such thing. You can say anything you like about your religion in your church, your home, even the town square.


"fight over the Ten Commandments statue"

Not everybody believes in Moses' religion. The "Golden Rule" would have probably been acceptable as a universal truth. The ten commandments do not apply to everyone. I shall, if I please, worship a graven image. That's my choice.

"The Pledge of Allegiance"

Personally, I disagree with having kids recite the pledge, since they are doing it mindlessly, and they really don't understand what it entails. As for the pledge itself, "under God" was unnecessarily tacked on in the 50s by some overzealous religious promoter. It should be taken back out.

The minister rounding up indonesian orphans to raise them in a Christian mission.

I think it's great to help orphans. Not so great to foist your religion on a people whose parents probably did not want them raised Christian...

The missionaries in Afghanistan that broke the prosthyletizing rules and caused the expulsion of all the other missionaries in the country.

Hadn't heard of that - but as a rule, I think that Christians proselytizing in non-christian countries is the pinnacle of arrogance and condescension. Christianity has not proven itself to be any better than the other religions of the world, but it sure as hell does propagate itself aggressively....

"restrictions of "Merry Christmas" displays and Christmas carols"

There are no restrictions on those things either. Again, church, home town square... YOu might want to avoid caroling in front of a person's house named "Rosenberg", but I've never heard of any "restrictions" on those things. Sure, specifically religious carols are not allowed in public schools, because that would be a form of proselytizing, and thus inappropriate. But last I heard, "Frosty the Snowman" etc. were okay...

"prohibition of preaching in schools and other places, etc."

Of course preaching in public schools is prohibited. It's a violation of the separation of church and state, and an offense to all the non-christian kids in the school. I'm an atheist and my wife is a buddhist. Why should my kids have to a listen to a sermon on a religion with many tenets we both, quite frankly, find offensive?

It amazes me that this crap is still being discussed. You'd think that extremely religious people would have learned to respect the common-sense boundaries set up by the constitution by now.

[Igel]

18. LA County's seal. It had a small cross, and a large image of

Pomona (apparently some minor Greek goddess). The cross riled up the ACLU--the historical significance of the Spanish missions and Catholicism notwithstanding.

Originally just the cross was going to go, Pomona was a late subtraction. I'm sure environmentalists ditched the oil derricks (I'm surprised the cow was allowed to say, given the state of the San Joaquin valley).

I think I'd prefer Pomona to the "Native American woman".

Here's a link dump from Google, take them for what they're worth:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/123/53.0.html
http://www.losangelesalmanac.com/topics/Government/gl05.htm
http://www.markdroberts.com/htmfiles/resources/crosscontroversy.htm
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/060204ap_nw_county_seal.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40382

[ContraBass Black]

19. Thank you.