AP PHOTOS: suspect in BTK serial killings....& reTHUGlicans response

[diamond14]

for some strange reason, the neighbors think 'it's just a real normal block'...sounds like their take on the carnage in Iraq, too...


http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/26/btk.investigation/index.html

Outside the home in Park City, authorities cordoned off the street and investigators combed the area. A Wichita police bomb squad truck, SWAT trucks and dozens of police cars and other emergency vehicles lined the street.

One neighbor in Park City expressed shock about the developments.

"I don't even want to think that it could possibly be real," the neighbor, who gave his name as Greg, told KAKE. "This is a real normal block. I mean it's just normal families. It's quiet, it's peaceful. ... People walk their dogs, kids play on their bikes -- it's really normal. It's a pure piece of America."






Dennis Rader of Park City, Kan., is shown in this undated driver's license photo provided to the Witchita Eagle, in Witchita, Kan., Saturday, Feb. 26, 2005. Officials in Witchita, Kan., announced the arrest of Rader in connection with the BTK serial killings. (AP Photo/Witchita Eagle)



This is an undated photo from the Website of the city of Park City, Kan., showing Dennis Rader, supervisor of the compliance department. Officials in Witchita, Kan., announced the arrest of Rader in connection with the BTK serial killer case, Saturday, Feb. 26, 2005. (AP Photo)

[demgrrrll]

1. The banality of evil. I am not surprised by their reactions or by his

outward appearance. You never know. It seems that whenever they interview the neighbors about one of these evil freaks they seem to make similar comments. He was a quiet guy, kept to himself, seemed to be a good family man, went to church.

[diamond14]

3. "People of the Lie" by Dr. M. Scott Peck is a good explanation of this

“Since the primary motive of evil is disguise, one of the places evil people are most likely to be found is within the church.” –Buber, Good and Evil

“Evil was defined as the use of power to destroy the spiritual growth of others for the purpose of defending and preserving the integrity of our own sick selves.”

“No man can concentrate his attention upon evil, or even upon the idea of evil, and remain unaffected. To be more against the devil than for God is exceedingly dangerous. Every crusader is apt to go mad. He is haunted by the wickedness which he attributes to his enemies; it becomes in some sort a part of him.”-Aldous Huxley, The Devils of Loudon

http://brianpedigo.com/personal/quotes/people_of_the_lie.htm

[demgrrrll]

9. One of my favorite books. I also feel that the man who wrote Soul

Murder has a good handle on evil. The Nietzsche quote about being careful when you are chasing monsters that you do not become one because when you stare into the abyss the abyss stares back at you or something like that is apt as well. I am quoting from memory so I am sure I am few words off on the quote.

[idiosyncratic]

19. "Peaple of the Lie" is an important, must-be-read-by-everybody book

n/t

[ultraist]

17. That's true

There is not one psychological profile, there are subgroups, but generally speaking, they are typically white males who appear average and work middle of the road type jobs. The BTK killer has been likened to the serial murderer Berkowitz.

http://www.uplink.com.au/lawlibrary/Documents/Docs/Doc5.html

A more specific profile of a serial killer has been presented by Apsche (1993) stating that most are white males in their twenties or thirties, who target strangers near their homes or places of work. "According to criminologist Eric Hickey, who has assembled the most extensive database on demography of serial murder states that, 88% of serial killers are male, 85% are Caucasian, and the average age when they claim their first victim is usually around 28.5. In terms of victim selection, 62% of the killers target strangers exclusively, and another 22% kill at least one stranger. Finally, 71% of the killers operate in a specific location or area, rather than traveling wide distances to commit their crimes"(Apsche, 1993, p.16).

For example, in Wichita Kansas, the BTK strangler (Bind, Torture, Kill), has been said to have attempted following in the footsteps of Berkowitz. This particular issue has been much debated, with some people arguing that the BTK incidences took place prior to any of Berkowitz's. As to the accuracy of this concept, it is debatable, particular when evidence suggests that the BTK activities continued up until 1979, though the murders where said to have ended during 1977. It is not so much the celebrity statues that they so enjoy, but instead the ability to control the lives of thousands of area residents, who are held in their grip of terror. "Psychologically the thrill-motivated killer tends to be a sociopath, someone with a disorder of character rather than the mind. He lacks a conscience, feels no remorse, and cares exclusively for his own pleasures in life…It has been estimated that 3% of all males in our society could be considered sociopathic" (Fox & Levin, 1994, p.18).

[Zuni]

25. I do not see how he could imitate Berkowitz

when he started killing several years before the first 'Son of Sam' shooting in NYC

[Stirk]

42. Just once I'd like to see someone say,

"I knew it was that guy as soon as the trouble started!"

[liberalhistorian]

43. Actually, I read an article about it

in my paper today where several neighbors were interviewed and they described him as an unpleasant man they were all afraid of because he was constantly harassing them due to his position as an enforcer of municipal codes.

And why do you say it's rethuglican reaction? Where does it give the political affiliation of any of the neighbors? It says nothing at all about that. I wouldn't just naturally assume things like that.

[elehhhhna]

2. Compliance? What was his job title?

[wndycty]

4. Was he a cop?

It looks like a uniform.

[Padraig18]

7. Parks officer.

http://www.parkcityks.com/Directory.asp?DID=69

[IndianaGreen]

5. He was probably active in GOP politics: anti-abortion, anti-gay, etc

I wonder if he gave money to such champions of family values like Alamn Keyes...

[Zuni]

26. Would not surprise me

Apparently he used his position to harass his neighbors to no end

[Warren DeMontague]

37. I read that he was measuring one guy's grass with a tape measure.

The first thing that crossed my mind reading the paper about it this morning was, "What a surprise. Sounds just like your typical anal-retentive, sexually inept, limp-dick authoritarian rage drunk freeper type". I would lay a solid strong bet this guy was a BIG right-wing AM radio fan.

Edit: This of course does not mean that all freepers are serial killers, although many do seem prone to fantasies of violence and weapons fetishism. However, look, we're dealing with a personality type here, it was personality analysis that, unless I'm wrong, led them to this guy. Here's a guy who is described as "excessively regimented in his behavior", and a "rule crazy" enforcer obsessed with minor infractions on the part of his neighbors to the point of making their lives miserable..... in short, the Little Tyrant personality type. (I highly doubt this guy is, say, a Bob Marley fan.) Here's someone, an extreme case to be sure, who is thoroughly corrupt morally yet also feels entitled to try to micro-manage his neighbors lives... Excuse me, but isn't that the GOP in a fucking nutshell?

Sorry, I just call em like I see em.

[Fovea]

6. other possible links...

Sedgwick county (wichita) animal care advisory board...
http://www.sedgwickcounty.org/countyclerk/1996/regular/reg04-10.pdf

Dennis as defendant?
http://boards.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/WebX.fcgi?[e-mail]^0@.ef13c7e/79

Dennis as possible martial artist?
http://www.taichinetwork.org/searchpages/Other-Tai-Chi-centers.html


Just raw search results...no follow up.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

10. president of a church?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3183088

[IndianaGreen]

15. That Rader lives in Oklahoma and own his own business

Not the Tai Chi guy.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

24. ???

gulp

Service Somber at Church Where BTK Suspect Was Leader
snip>
Rader, a church member for 30 years, an usher and president of the church council, was arrested Friday in suburban Park City, where he worked as a city codes enforcement supervisor.

more...
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBGJJWQP5E.html


This is why I quit organized religion. Sundays - everyone is a model citizen and child of God. Mon - Sat. whoring and drinking just like us liberals. Is it just me, or are there more 'Christian' serial killers than liberal ones? Surely the MSM would be screaming it.

[madrchsod]

8. well i`d think the same thing if something

like this evil was on my block. i live in middle class american neighborhood in st ronald`s hometown.

[bush_is_wacko]

11. Curious? Why do you condemn the neighbor's as Rethuglican's?

Or am I missing something? Not all resident's of a red state are fundies. The criminal in this case is, but the neighbor's response is pretty typical of anyone that just found out their neighbor killed ten people over a 30 year period of time. These people get away with their crimes by "hiding in plain sight" though. That is how they manage to go so many years without being caught.

Please forgive me if I misread your post, but I don't think it is right to assume that the neighbor's comment makes him a Republican.

[WeGotBTK]

13. good post. agree.

[Padraig18]

20. I agree 100%

:thumbsup:

[Zuni]

27. Why condemn the neighbors?

Most of them are just shocked to find out their next door neighbor had broken into homes and killed for pleasure for the last 30 years.

[WeGotBTK]

12. His daughter turned him in!!! Even she knows her dad's

a psychopath!

[greenbriar]

14. how do you know that?

I would like to know

[WeGotBTK]

16. Husband's on te Wichita PD

It'll be out in the news soon! Check Sunday papers.

[ultraist]

18. Welcome WeGotBTK!

:hi:

Thanks for the news! We heard it hear first, not in the MSM!

[Kazak]

36. Hmmm...what about this?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050228/ap_on_re_us/btk_killings

"Wichita television station KAKE, citing sources it did not name, reported that DNA from Rader's daughter, Kerri, was instrumental in his capture, though KAKE anchor Larry Hatteberg said it did not appear the daughter turned in her father."

:shrug:

[UdoKier]

21. Anyone who thinks "white & middle class" = "normal"

is out of their gourd. White, middle-class people often have the most warped values of anyone you could meet. I wouldn't judge anyone on appearance alone, but I sure as hell wouldn't trust somebody around my kids just because they looked and talked "all-American".

Haven't these people seen "American Beauty"? The only normal people on the block were the gay couple!

[Zuni]

28. American Beauty is Hollywood

Who does have 'unwarped' values anyway?

[UdoKier]

46. American Beauty resonated with people because it has a core of truth.

Sure, not every neighborhood has a Ricky Fitts. But the core of the film - dissatisfaction with horrible, soul-killing jobs, keeping up with the Jones', a pathological need to succeed to the detriment of one's personal life - those things ring true because we all have someone like that close to us, if not ourselves.

[bush_is_wacko]

33. Um, excuse me....I resemble that remark! And I sincerely hope

you realize how mistaken you are. There is only ONE Republican in my entire extended, I'm talking cousins, second cousins, grandparents, related by marriage, etc, etc., family. We are MOSTLY middle to upper middle class. Some of us could even be considered wealthy. None of us have ever been put in jail for anything more than a stupid adolescent underage drinking charge. We are about as "normal" and ordinary as it gets. We hold no prejudices against anyone, but we smell bullshit a mile a way and we ALL know the prevailing winds from Washington smell like a pig farm in your backyard!

I don't even remotely resemble the family on American Beauty but I did think that was a funny movie. I am not so much angry at you as sorry that you don't realize the "exurbs" and middle-class America is NOT your enemy.

Would you consider yourself poor? I'm not trying to be offensive here, just trying to figure out why you feel the way you do. I would like to invite you into my world so you can see we are not all, in fact, I would say MOST of us are NOT Republican's.

[UdoKier]

44. Grow Up!

None of your spiel has anything to do with what I said. It's a common conceit that being white, middle-class and republican = "normal" (& thus moral, trustworthy, etc.) White suburbia is no more good or trustworthy than anywhere else.

The "American Beauty" bit was tongue-in-cheek, but their certainly are more than a few "Fitts" types around. There is no better breeding ground for dysfunction, disaffection and isolation than the suburbs, IMO.

YOur defensiveness is besides the point. We live in a media culture that constantly reinforces the stereotype of "crime-ridden inner cities" and "tidy suburbs", etc. All I'm saying is that the stereotype is BS, and that most suburbs are as rife with corruption and psychosis as any other neighborhood.

PS, and exit polls have shown that Bush won the suburban areas of the US handily, and lost the cities just as decisively. Your family may not have many repugs, but many suburbs are lousy with them.

[bush_is_wacko]

47. I have lived in the suburbs all my life and without a doubt

I am well aware of the fact that crime of all types is NOT and has NEVER been exclusive to the inner city! There are normal people and crazy people EVERYWHERE and I have never believed anything else. I live in the suburbs because I like to see the stars at night instead of the city lights and I like the quiet, but I have seen the crime that occurs out here and it can be every bit as brutal, sometimes I think it is more brutal,as in the city. There is far less chance of being seen committing these crimes so the perpetrator can take his/her time dong them.

I will still re-state my former assertion though! You are mistaken about who lives in the suburbs. I know there are many people with a very distorted view of middle class suburbia. My family went through this years ago when my mother befriended a woman and her family at work that had never ventured outside the city. One of them made the comment that we lived in KKK country when they were invited to our house! This was shocking for us to hear. This family and most of their extended members now visit us as often as we visit them and one of them is actively looking for a home out here.

I want you to understand that as long as this perception of the suburbs exists, it keeps the suburbs Lilly white and promotes the prejudice you clearly hold of them and believe they hold of you. My liberal family hates that aspect of life in the suburbs but we go into the city all the time without fear or loathing to provide ourselves with a REAL picture of "Americana." Please, learn to broaden your horizon and DON'T believe the rhetoric you have been fed.

I can assure you there are MANY very liberal people living in the suburbs of EVERY red state on the map. I even lived in suburban KANSAS for a while. I have to admit I was hard pressed to find people there that weren't your typical fundie/freeper but they WERE there too!

[Bluebear]

22. "A pure piece of America! People walk their dogs!"

"People walk their dogs, kids play on their bikes -- it's really normal."

I am certain the neighbor is shocked and dismayed by this and rightfully so, but I noticed the "pure piece of America" comment. I just wonder if all this "heartland values" stuff has gone to their head. Hello, we walk dogs in Volvo-drivin' New England. Kids play on their bikes in latte-sippin' California. This could happen anywhere, unfortunately, and we see that it did.

[Zuni]

29. I agree with that

I am sick of the people who think that you have to go to the bible belt to find 'real americans'.

I am a real American who lives in a blue state, in a blue city. I have pets, I go to church, I love my family.

[bush_is_wacko]

34. Why are you attacking the neighbor. He is JUST reacting to

finding out his neighbor is a serial murderer. he is NOT making a statement that is suggesting "normal" people are ONLY located in the heartland, bible belt, exurbs, etc, etc! I can't believe what I am seeing on this thread!

Give the guy a break! He has lived with a serial killer in his midst and he is SHOCKED to find this out. I suspect YOU would be shocked, and EVERY other person you and I both know would be shocked to find themselves living next door to a SERIAL killer.

The neighbors statement is NOT a political statement!

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Yeah, I agree. The neighbors didn't do anything wrong.

Except for maybe the guy who let his grass grow 1/16th of an inch too long.

[bush_is_wacko]

48. That is a little funny isn't it? I live in one of the few "suburban"

neighborhoods with absolutely NO covenants or rules. I don't know how people can keep a straight face when they make a police complaint that their neighbors grass is too long and it is impugning the quality of their life! I know they do though. Apparently THEY have a little too much time on their hands!

I have had mountain lions taking a nap in my front yard and rattlesnakes curled around my garbage can. Most of my neighbors don't even give it a second glance unless the wild animals make a break for the front door!

[Fuzz]

23. Some freeper posts

To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
Computer equipment? So he was online. Interesting.

He was a regular on DU

10 posted on 02/26/2005 10:03:57 AM EST by ThreePuttinDude


*************Idiot********************


To: Great Prophet Zarquon

hey, that's not fair. DUmmies may be stupid, they're not rapist-killers. Please.

You're right. We don't know anything about this guy yet. Let's not give the other side ammo they can use against us just for the sake of a cheap laugh.
48 posted on 02/26/2005 11:06:55 AM EST by GreenHornet


********Not laughing***********

To: Great Prophet Zarquon
DUmmies may be stupid, they're not rapist-killers. Please.

Well.....they did recently have a Democrat POTUS...that more than likely WAS.

50 posted on 02/26/2005 11:10:00 AM EST by Osage Orange


************Fucking idiot****************


To: Great Prophet Zarquon

Fixed your typo: hey, that's not fair. DUmmies may be stupid, they're not all rapist-killers. Please.

106 posted on 02/26/2005 11:24:48 AM EST by null and void

************Ya, you're funny***********


To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

"Computer equipment? So he was online. Interesting."

What's his DU name?? ;)

76 posted on 02/26/2005 11:18:20 AM EST by adam_az


************Search your database sparky*************


To: gopwinsin04

I wonder what his DU screen name was.

450 posted on 02/26/2005 1:50:49 PM EST by RedBloodedAmerican


************Originalilty certainly doesn't flourish over there now does it?***************


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1351569/posts

[Zuni]

30. They are certainly not the sharpest knives in the drawer

:evilgrin:

[WilliamPitt]

32. Great

We're doing in this thread what they did in theirs.

I feel so proud.

[WilliamPitt]

31. How on earth does this have anything to do with Republicans

I'm not seeing the connection at all.

[Renew Deal]

39. This poster thinks he's a republican

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1267884&mesg_id=1268087&page=

[WilliamPitt]

41. Who cares?

He's also a murdrering, torturing psychopath. Wait... :)

Seriously, I don't think too highly of using one nimrod to categorize a whole group. Imagine if they'd found Jeffrey Dahmer's name on a list of donors to the DNC, and Rush et al. tried to use that as a stick to beat the Left. It'd be disgusting, and we'd be outraged.

Maybe that's good tactics, and since I've been one of the people preaching war-to-the-knife political combat against these movement conservatives, maybe I should see it like that. A part of me does, I guess, but I feel soiled by the idea that this kind of wretched hyperbole should be part of the game.

[paineinthearse]

35. ....& reTHUGlicans response

Did I miss something? Where is the "reTHUGlicans response"?

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Each time we get one of these guys I think about all the RW blather re:

"Liberals need to let us do racial and religious profiling"

.. Hey, great. It seems fairly certain that, for example, all the terror attacks in this country in the past 10 years save one were done by right-wing white Christian extremist types. (And that's not including the anthrax investigation which mysteriously stopped the minute it started pointing to a right-wing kook with US military connections) I think we need to start profiling all conservative white males 30-65, since "their kind" is obviously a menace; the ones who aren't guilty shouldn't mind.

[Lisabtrucking]

45. He was a Republican, and a Religious person, hmm, sounds like

what I see is wrong with the republican party, they are all weirdos