Guess what - there are Liberal Catholics. We need unity.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

This is why we lose.

[murielm99]

1. There are liberal Protestants, too.

We need unity, but we need to speak up against the wingnuts as well.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

2. agreed

but telling us we believe in an insane myth isn't productive

[kaitykaity]

11. It's probably better to blow off such criticism.

You believe in the myth. I don't. I do think it's an
"insane myth." I have every right to think and say
that.

I think it's more a matter of a little bit of
hypersensitivity to criticism of dearly-held beliefs.
Understandable, but please don't overreact.

It's too bad the a lot of believers are so locked into
their worship of George Bush as God on Earth that they'll
accept the perversion of those beliefs (generosity,
service to our fellow humans, et cetera) in service
to the little dictator.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

17. Still - if this is a political forum trying to win we should drop the

religion wars and unite on what we hold in common politically - that's what the Republicans have done and that's why they win and we lose.

[NVMojo]

3. sad part is most "christians" today can't seem to recognize that

being a conservative and a "christian" today is being a living oxymoron.

[Just Me]

14. Personally, I do not believe most "christians" are neo-conservative.

It's just that the neo-conservative ones are louder and more obnoxious. They're not a reflection of the majority though. At least, I honestly do not believe they are.

[applegrove]

4. Don't let the GOP Natzis separate us from the Christians who belong

in our tent. All the devoutly religious do. I you are human - and being religious is a very human thing - you are in my tent.

[etherealtruth]

5. We've always known there were liberal Catholics, Protestants...

...The right wing has successfully defined the faithful as conservative. Most of the population of the U.S. claims some affiliation with religion, if they were correct, * would have received a huge proportion of the vote-------despite his claims of a mandate he "won" slightly more than 1/2 the vote.

I am Catholic and do not know a "thinking" Catholic whom is conservative.

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. Christianity, rightfully believed in, is all about liberal values.

Conservative Catholics have let themselves be used. :(


I am a Catholic who refuses to attend a church that politicizes the pulpit. :hi:

[merh]

7. I am with you on that!

I cannot attend a church that promotes the lies of this admin or the neo-con agenda that promotes hate from the pulpit.

Ever since I was a child I have been able to discern the difference between faith and religion. I have always questioned the "teachings of the church" that have been contrary to the messages and life of Christ.

I also was taught a long time ago that sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. The democratic values are more in line with the message of the New Testament than the hate of the right. No one, not on DU or in the real world can ever make me ashamed for my faith. My faith is more than a religion.

[etherealtruth]

10. I wonder if it is regional...

Most assuredly many (perhaps most) Catholics take a very conservative view of abortion. Truly, the Catholics I know are really motivated by the issues of social and environmental justice and the concept of just war. The politic ans from my local parish (and there are quite a few)are among the most liberal in the area. I do know, from living around the country, that this is not always true. I question if it is a regional "thing"?

[Dookus]

16. But those of us without belief

have a hard time accepting that ANYBODY can decide what is "rightly believed in".

These arguments have gone on for thousands of years, and I can't see any objective criterion by which to judge what "rightful belief" is.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

20. I think the key is keeping this country secular. It's like Kerry said. I

hold these things as articles of faith but I can't legislate my faith on those who don't share it. We need religious freedom and a TRULY secular country.

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. I can decide for myself, just as you can Dookus. And we should

be allowed to peacefully coexist with our own beliefs. That's what I'm saying. When I speak of Christianity and rightfull beliefs it is in answer to those who believe. It's not my position nor my right to judge you for your beliefs. See?

[Dookus]

24. Well here's my problem....

Person A says "Christianity is harmful to our nation" and Person B says "well THOSE people aren't real Christians".

So what am I to think? Certainly, the right-wing Christians consider themselves real Christians, and they seem to outnumber the left-wing ones: or at least they're more vocal and more successful, politically. And they think people like you are not "real" Christians.

So there are now two competing claims, and I have no criteria by which to judge them, because I can certainly find Biblical support for either view.

[mutus_frutex]

8. If you don't accept the dogma, you are not a catholic..

And if you believe the dogma, you are liberal. Ergo, you can't be a true catholic and a true liberal at the same time.

Sorry to sound callous...

[ScreamingMeemie]

22. Yes you can. If you choose to. Much of the modern Catholic doctrine

has naught to do with the foundation of the faith. Sorry to not agree with your statement. :hi:

[mutus_frutex]

26. Without knowing much about you, you sound like a heretic.. :-)

I think you have been infected by the "liberalism" of the potestant churches. It is not up to you to determine what part of the dogma is proper or not. That is the job of the priests.

That is a point that most americans I have talked seem to ignore. It is probably related to their fierce independence. But in the RCC there is not such independence. As I said before, if you don't accept the dogma, you are not a catholic.

Cheers..

[AndyTiedye]

9. The Catholic Vote Used to be a Mainstay of the Democrats

But that was before the church heirarchy threw its lot in with the
Republicans. Unfortunately, a large fraction of Catholics vote
Republican because their priests and bishops told them to. Never
before has the Catholic church taken sides so blatantly in a US
election.

There isn't really anything we can do to get those votes back.
We even ran a liberal Catholic as our candidate last fall, as you
may remember, and the church still did everything in their power
to defeat him.

We really do appreciate liberal Catholics, we just wish there were
more of them.

[Dookus]

12. I love you Chavez

but I will not unite with any group that beliefs gay marriage is evil and believes even people with HIV/AIDS shouldn't use condoms.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

18. I love you too Dooks and I agree these are wrong stances

but the Dems need us. We hold the same values and we work for the same things.

[H2O Man]

13. I suspect that

most of the silly things said on DU regarding Catholics are from people who have never been exposed to the good part of the church. When people voice ignorant "opinions" such as you can't be a Catholic if you are liberal, are as confused as people who think you can't eat meat on Friday. Those of us who have worked with the Berrigen brothers, or who admired the work of Oscar Romero, know better.

[Dookus]

15. I was a Catholic

for almost half my life. My dislike for the church is not based in ignorance. It's based on the fact that my deeply-felt beliefs are simply not aligned with the Church's on important issues like gays, women, birth control, choice, condom use, et. al.

[H2O Man]

19. Surely

there are many well thought out complaints about the Catholic Church. I have plenty of them myself. But that doesn't translate into anti-Catholic insults ..... and I do not mean you, by any means. There are plenty of progressive Catholics, likely about the same % as in any given group, including ex-Catholics.

[alcuno]

23. I've never seen a Catholic on this board say they are leaving for good.

It's probably happened, but considering the constant negative comments about the Holy Father and the way any discussion reverts to pedophilia, we're holding our own.

As for unity, that's not conformity. Take those of us who are Catholic; it's the tenants of our faith that bind us. As for all the other stuff, we are an unruly lot.

[kiraboo]

25. My mother is a liberal Catholic. She "takes the best and leaves

the rest." Unfortunately one part she "takes" is the homophobia. I find it inexcusable.