A little word to conservative ASSHOLES who claim we don't support troops

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

YOU VOTED FOR THE FUCKING ASSWIPES WHO ARE NOW TAXING VETS IN ORDER TO UNDERWRITE THEIR TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY.

YOU PEOPLE ARE FUCKING IDIOTS AND FUCKING TOOLS!

YOU VOTED FOR PEOPLE WHO GIVE LIPSERVICE TO SUPPORTING THE TROOPS WHILE THEY CUT THEIR BENEFITS AND TAX THEM.

HOW COULD YOU BE SO STUPID???

I'LL TELL YOU HOW.

WHEN A ROOF OVER YOUR EMPTY FUCKING HEAD BECOMES MORE IMPORTANT THAN GUNS, GOD AND WHETHER OR NOT THE GAY PERSON NEXT DOOR CAN GET MARRIED YOU'LL GET IT.

OH..and VETWIFE..if you are reading this thread. I never had an issue with you until you repeatedly slammed DU on conservative sites while telling them you appreciated them more... I wish you weren't tombstoned so you could explain to me how TAXING vets to cater to the uber wealthy is so MOTHERFUCKING PATRIOTIC.

http://www.military.com/Content/Printer_Friendly_Version/1,11491,,00.html?str_filename=FL%5Ffee%5F022605&passfile=FL%5Ffee%5F022605&page_url=%2FNewsContent%2F0%2C13319%2CFL%5Ffee%5F022605%2C00%2Ehtml

2.4 Million Veterans Will Pay New Fee
HeraldNet
February 26, 2005

Republican majorities on the House and Senate veterans' affairs committees have voted to impose an enrollment fee of at least $230 a year on 2.4 million veterans - one of every three now eligible for Veterans Affairs Administration health care.

Those targeted are in priority categories 7 and 8, meaning they are neither poor nor suffering from service-connected disabilities. Half of the 2.4 million used the VA health system last year.

The Bush administration proposed the enrollment fee to hold down costs. The VA committees rejected another Bush proposal to raise co-payments on VA-filled prescriptions for these same priority 7 and 8 veterans.

While both committees endorsed enrollment fees, differences emerged. The Senate panel, chaired by Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, embraced the Bush plan for a straight $250 annual fee.

editorial note: please don't mention certain conservative sites that will get this thread locked..we refuse to give them free advertising

[JanMichael]

1. PREACH it Sister!!!

You go girl!

And, btw, Vetwife (I thought that meant veterinarian for the first few months I saw her) has been on "that other site" (not FR) for months.

I pointed her out to Michael sometime about then. Really weird shit and computer games, eh?

[smurfygirl]

3. I also noticed this about

vetwife.

A plant. That's what I take of her.

[JanMichael]

9. What a boring damned life

playing computer games.

If she is reading this, I hope she realizes the stupidity of her chosen hobby, and takes up gardening or something more befitting a housewife. (The last 6 words were Michael's...not mine...Steph)

[flyarm]

44. you bet she was a plant..and prob a paid one..bet ...

i bet they just cut her off of $$$$$$

she is a traitor to the troops she lies about and uses for her own purpose..
worse she is a traitor to her nation!!

i just read an article i will try to find it how the rethugs were paying people to post on blogs !!

i would bet the farm she was a paid rethug!!
a traitor to her nation rethug!

fly

[girl gone mad]

129. Please find that article if you can.

I really would like to show it to someone who doesn't believe me.

I've long theorized that the GOP pays homeless people to post on message boards and phone in talk shows and CSPAN.

[FreedomAngel82]

102. Support the troops my ass

That isn't supporting the troops. Do they still have to pay $8.10 for their meals? If so then I'll have to write my people again. *sigh*

[BrklynLiberal]

2. Let me say I agree with you before your thread gets deleted. hahahahaha

:thumbsup:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. It most likely won't be

go check ATA

there was a bit of confusion this am

[cry baby]

4. I'm sorry, I was fooled by her - I took up for her a little bit last night

I had read some of her posts and thought she was a moderate Dem. I actually get burned quite often, I am naive and tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.

[Mz Pip]

12. Me, too

Maybe it was the picture with Max Cleland that convinced me of her sincerity. I missed the fireworks but am glad the truth came out, even if it means I'd been fooled. Sigh.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[tblue37]

117. Vetwife was sincerely on our side.

That was then, this is now, of course. But she really was. She was a regular and very active poster at smirkingchimp.com, and she is very active in veteran support groups. She regularly called TV shows and radio call-in shows and blasted the Bush administration and Republicans. She had a website (Focus Group Now) that I actually linked to on one of my sites. (That link came off today, after I found out she had gone over to the dark side.) She spent money she did not have to make a CD called "Take It Back!" against the Bush administration, and then the CD didn't sell, and that was a big disappointment to her. She didn't even make back the money she spent making it, but mostly I think it hurt her feelings that people didn't buy it.

Actually, she has gone through a lot this past year. Her beloved mother died, and she was really thrown for a loop by that. Her son and his kids are also having a lot of trouble, and she is carrying them and everyone else on her shoulders.

Amanda left the Smirking Chimp site in frustration because she felt she was not getting the respect her efforts deserved. When she kept bumping the thread about her CD, she was chastised by the moderator for bumping her own thread. Some of the threads she started were unceremoniously locked for violation of SC’s rigorous posting rules. We loved her and her activist energy over there, but she did feel disrespected, and she was tremendously worn down by the difficult circumstances of her life and by her constant money difficulties.

It really is true that there are some who say incredible things about the troops here. Yes, I know that there are some evil, sadistic soldiers, and that we are doing evil things in Iraq, even without the extra evil of the sadists. But there are a lot of people like my nephew and a few of my friends who ended up in Iraq against their will and who were just trying to survive long enough to get home. Blanket condemnations of soldiers are a slap in the face to those of us who have loved ones over there.

Vetwife’s whole life has been her family and her work for veterans (including her husband, Namvet, who is a disabled Viet Nam vet). She takes such insults very much to heart. And she is sensitive to insults and to her sense that all her work is unappreciated and perhaps even disrespected.

I read some of the comments they made to her at the conservative site she now frequents. They give her so much praise, so much stroking. I think she desperately needed that after what she has been through this last year. She is worn out, and that sort of stroking does tend to re-energize a person.

Also, I got to thinking. I hate to imagine it, but we do know that the rightwing takes care of its own. I think of Vetwife, with her suffering and stress, her financial difficulties, all the people she loves who are totally dependent on her. She was getting a bit of a name for herself there during the campaign. Maybe some enterprising rightwing operative thought she would be worth coopting, and maybe she was offered financial security of some sort for going over to their side. David Brock (of Media Matters) says that he and many others like him ended up in the rightwing camp because that’s where the money and the security were. Juan Cole has commented on that, too. He has remarked that while he struggled financially after college, his peers who had gone conservative were raking in the dough.

Anyway, I feel awful that Vetwife has gone over to the dark side. I can understand her recoiling from the abuse heaped on vets here sometimes, but it is possible to reject that without embracing the whole evil agenda of the rightwingers.

[BeHereNow]

121. Very thoughtful post-

I think the most important point you make is
that there are no shades of gray allowed in
discussion and debate.
Thsi is true of the "left" and the "right"
and I say once again, indicative
of a mass neurosis and narcissistic disorder
gripping the majority of people in the nightmare
that has become America.

This particular line from your post intrigues me:

"And she is sensitive to insults and to her sense
that all her work is unappreciated and perhaps
even disrespected."

Only in this country could a bunch of strangers
on the internet define someone's self worth.
It is akin to people in this country consuming tons
of crap they don't need.

You do your work because you want to
and because for you, it is the right thing to
do. The results should never involve what people
think about you for doing it.

That is a strictly American quality.
A quality that implies neurosis on a grand scale
in our society.

My thoughts on the subject- not directed
specifically to Vetwife, but as a general observation
of our culture as a whole.
BHN

[Tigress DEM]

130. Being a Centrist who swings left and values the soldiers if not war..

I can see how someone not used to being flogged from every direction might not be able to make it here.

I have been in some heavy duty threads about soldiers and I agree with you things get off track is when it has to be defined, support the soldiers or else you're 'nMerican or that to be supportive of the soldiers makes you a bad DUer.

For me, it took two things to stay because I've wondered if I really belong here or not as far as an investment of my time and energy. I can find plenty of places to bang my head against a wall.

One - there were people who actually kept it up and dialogued about issues instead of just telling me off.

Two - I've had to examine me and my positions and decide how much is what I believe because it's part of me and how much I believe because it's part of the whole cultural upbringing.

I know I'll always value the humanity of soldiers. As a Christian, the whole laying one's life down for the sake of another means too much to me to disrespect these people - no matter how misguided they are or how horrific the results.

However, I am beginning to think all of us, including those who chose to serve have to take a better look at what each of us contributed to where we are now.

10 years ago a friend was trying to talk to me about these things and I couldn't take it in. I guess if she'd pointed me to some information source like this, I could have ingested all the truth I could handle at a pace that didn't drive me over the edge.

Was anything like DU an option 10 years ago? I still feel guilty that I didn't pursue the Truth about the world situation before Kerry lost. Not knowing let me believe what I needed to believe and so I did things to improve, but I had no idea how far I really had to go.

So whenever I think to get on someone's case and I have a few times. I try to soften it with the fact, I don't know you, so maybe I'm wrong and being willing to be educated if I really missing some important piece.

[BeHereNow]

131. Glad you can be so honest

and open yourself to self-examination.
That is not common among a population
that is continually defining itself through the
latest corporate peddled identity as 'murikkans
are prone to do.

We have become a society that defines
every issue in black and white and shades
of gray are NOT allowed.

I see the issue of our troops like this:

1. They are not deployed to lay down their
lives for anyone other than the multi national
corporate interest of a few. Many of them
have figured that out as they find themselves
spending their time in Iraq guarding private
contractors who are making ten times the
amount of money.
2. I support our troops and protest the illegal
and corrupt manner in which they are being used
in the ME and other parts of the world in the
interest of corporations, not American interests.
3. As a Christian, I will not excuse or condone the
actions of ANYone, troops included, who commits
atrocities and the murder of fellow human beings,
ESPECIALLY when these acts are being comitted
in my name for the benefit of the corporatists,
NOT Americans.

We have NO business being in Iraq other than
the business of protecting business interests.
It is all a sham that will destory the lives of millions
for the billions of profit for a few.
I support our troops. My nephew is one.
I do not support this war or the people promoting
and engaging in criminal actions on my taxpayer dime.
BHN

[Tigress DEM]

133. The whole thing gets complicated.

What I have talked a lot about is that if we are not there we don't know exactly what each and every soldier has or has not done.

Therefore, what I've asked people to do is not prejudge them all by how awful this war is and the main reason is this.

I'd like to dismantle the misguided military, not the soldier.

When these soldiers who did sign up for what they believed were the right reasons get access to all the information they need to really be able to choose differently, it's going to be hard enough on them to make those choices.

I hope to be one of those people here at home that can help them turn it around and use their pain and betrayal to aid the Democratic cause.

My vision of true Democracy includes pretty much everyone who can put aside their differences and dialogue.

It would include even those that are closed minded and flap jawed, but with someone like that, it isn't me that keeps them from the experience of Democracy; it's their own behavior.

[Ellen Forradalom]

124. If that's the case, it's truly a shame

It is very important in political discourse to not take another person's speech personally. It's a shame if vetwife's psyche was so worn down by stress that she was unable to do this.

Some people are simply flat-out anti-military. Of these, some have arrived at their positions thoughtfully, and some haven't thought it all the way through...yet.

Some people are so outraged by what's going on in Iraq that they vent it on the soldiers.

Some are poor writers and don't mean to slam the soldiers, but it sounds that way.

I believe that here at DU the vast majority of us want the soldiers home SAFE and SOUND.

[smirkymonkey]

128. A few things struck me about your post...

"Amanda left the Smirking Chimp site in frustration because she felt she was not getting the respect her efforts deserved."

"And she is sensitive to insults and to her sense that all her work is unappreciated and perhaps even disrespected."

"I read some of the comments they made to her at the conservative site she now frequents. They give her so much praise, so much stroking."

It sounds like she is motivated primarily by ego and that her efforts, although honorable, seem to be more about attention getting than anything else. If she was sincerly concerned about the plight of veterans and the troops, she would be fighting against the abysmal treatment they have been receiving from our "patriotic" Republican government.

She goes where she gets the most attention. That should tell you something.

[tblue37]

134. I am not disagreeing with you.

I am just explaining where it all might becoming from. It doesn't excuse what she has done, but it does make it more comprehensible for those who can't wrap their minds around this sudden change of allegiance.

[alittlelark]

132. I believe she was 'with us' as well. I enjoyed her posts.

I believe that the b/w thinking I saw in many of her posts explains a lot. B/W thinking is comfortable, and the lure of the Reich - Wing.

[Rush1184]

5. AMEN!!!

And recomemded!

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. please remove the link and mention

we don't do free advertising for them here...it's against the rules and I want this thread to stay open as my point is they vote for people who DON'T support the troops. That is pretentious and worse yet fraud.

Thanks in advance for your understanding

[BrklynLiberal]

14. sorry

[dweller]

21. oh well

i read that link from *site not to be mentioned* and it was revealing. Someone here had posted support of the troops in the vetwife thread, a member *there* brought it up, and was told to 'Fuck off'..... Guess it doesn't fit the mindset there.

but on a thread here earlier i pointed out something that maybe will shed some light.

I know not everyone here listens and agrees or trusts Big Eddie Schultz, but last week he's been battling rwingers over RushL:puke: 's comments made in Iraq (certain political parties that don't support the troops in Iraq) and Ed's been asking them 'Where? where are the left/Dems saying that we don't support the troops??'

now that's a little too convenient i'd say for this vetwife/support the troops..or else....to crop up here now.

i expect further developments to occur this week with rwing talking points pointing to DU as the place. I hope i'm wrong, but it doesn't hurt to be forewarned.

dp

[BrklynLiberal]

30. As you said, forewarned IS forearmed..so at least we should be prepared.

So we should not be surprised if that former DUer's post is quoted when it comes time to prove that DU does not support the troops.

[G_j]

17. Oh Crap

I never visit those places, but in this case my curiousity got the better of me.

That was enough for this lifetime...!

Something tells me there are a hell of a lot more Vets here than there or FR.

[Rush1184]

7. I also nominate VETWIFE as a top ten conservative idiot!

[Bunny]

10. They aren't going to get it, that is the sad part.

Most of them lack the capacity to recognize this, and will justify their feelings at any cost.

And Vetwife? I've defended you, even sent your group money when mari's husband died. You're a backstabbing fuck.

[Misunderestimator]

24. I wonder if I can return the CD I bought from her last year...

about "Taking back America." Fortunately for me, most of my impulse spending for good causes actually goes to good causes... not that one.

[Bunny]

31. Yeah, I've been pretty lucky with my good-cause spending too.

Chalk this one up to the bad side, I guess. Wonder how she'll feel when she realizes that her new friends are just using her.

[Misunderestimator]

35. As long as they keep to the mantra that they support the troops without

actually supporting them and propping her up (without actually propping her up)... I don't think she will ever realize. What a freaky morning it was.

[Bunny]

38. It really was a weird morning. I woke up with a headache, and

ended up telling some other poster to grow the fuck up. The thread got locked, my post got deleted, and all by 7:30 AM!!

[Orangepeel]

92. you gotta make a choice

would you rather be the kind of person who gets taken occasionally, or the kind of person who refuses to help any legitimate cause?

I try not to be an easy mark, but I'd rather lose a little money now and then but be a prick when people really do need help.

Better a bleeding heart than no heart at all.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

What the hell was actually in that CD? She PM'ed me about it once.

[Misunderestimator]

73. Basically, it was just her voice and some music in the background

ranting on and on about how awful the Bush administration was to veterans... it's distressing to see how much sense she lost since then.

[Misunderestimator]

93. Also... it seems she must have spammed people on multiple sites...

she sent me a message when I was on SC asking to buy her CD. Funny thing is... the hair stood up on the back of my neck at the solicitation. But then I thought it was just because we had posted to one another and that she REALLY needed the HELP. I did not want the CD. It was not made for people who already understood everything she said on it (and it was pretty obvious stuff). I bought it to HELP her... and now I feel taken. I don't care about the money, but I sure as hell care about having my trust betrayed.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

105. I don't know if I have her PM saved, but the message I seemed to get

from it was that it was important for me to buy this CD to do the right thing and all. Really didn't rub me the right way.

On edit: I just reread her email to me, in response to some thread I'd posted on. Her email is basically entirely concerned with selling her CD to me.

Also I noted that the cafepress listing of this anti-Bush CD is now gone. Is she no longer peddling it since her great unmasking?

No way I'm gonna sift through her posts on these wingnut sites, but is she a big shrubco fan now? Has she always been?

[Misunderestimator]

110. No, she is not a fan of shrub as far as I can tell...

but with her repeated trashing of DU on conservative sites, seems that the phrase "the path to hell is paved with good intentions" is appropriate.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. sorry...don't get mad at me

but please take out the last three words of your post...admin doesn't want them mentioned..I respect their wishes

[jonnyblitz]

16. that place isnt her "new" home, she has been there for awhile. nt

[two gun sid]

18. vetwife is a fuckin' nut.

She won't stay at * very long before something will offend her there also. She's just another fucked up republican who thinks the world owes her something. She wants attention and right now that's what she's getting at *. When people get tired of her whiney-assed posts she'll move on. No doubt with plenty of accusations and pictures of herself.

All you lurkin' *er's, you're welcome to her and this vet wants to tell all of you: Fuck You.

[BuyingThyme]

19. I don't know much about this vetwife business, but

I get the impression that she came here desperate to engage in conversation -- any conversation.

It seems that the (her) conservative forums don't even entertain the thought of supporting the troops, except to say "support the troops" over and over and over and over. No talk of benefits or exit strategy or activism or democracy.

She came here because she had something to say, but now leaves with nothing to say but "support the troops."

Sad.

[Solly Mack]

65. the irony of it all

I agree

[Misunderestimator]

20. And THAT is so much more powerful a statement than showing

off a lot of trophies and letters and pictures of how much one "supports the troops" when one is apparently do the fucking opposite. No matter what someone has done in the past, it's the present actions that make the person. You're only as good as your last performance, and that was one hell of a swan song we saw here. Damn shame.

[Catherine Vincent]

22. Did you read vetwife's farewell post last night?

She said she was leaving DU because of some here bashing the military. I must have missed those posts.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. Because some people believe holding leadership accountable

and demanding that we honor the Geneva Convention is bashing the troops even though they GET TRAINING on the Geneva convention in bootcamp.

[Cooley Hurd]

46. ...and people kept asking her, "Show us the proof..."

"...post links to support your claims, etc."

She never did...:thumbsdown:

[FreedomAngel82]

104. I remember reading that

I didn't get it myself. I haven't been here that long but I don't remember reading anybody bashing the troops since I have been here. :shrug:

[fudge stripe cookays]

23. Vetwife? Damn! What'd I miss?

I knew her at "that other site," and she always seemed like a decent sort. I must be completely out of touch. Or something.

FSC

[Misunderestimator]

25. Are you sure you mean...

"the" other site... or a different other site? Haven't seen too many at the other site in question that are decent at all.

[fudge stripe cookays]

58. My "other site"

would be SC. I don't hang out at the "OTHER other" ones, thank you very much! :P

FSC

[Misunderestimator]

64. I thought that's what you might have meant... and it is not unmentionable

here as far as I know. It's also quite liberal, and I was a member there for a year before I joined DU (still a member, but I never go there anymore since DU is so much better, and faster and well-moderated)... the other site referred to here is a conservative site. :)

[wicket]

68. she moved to a conservative site??

[Misunderestimator]

71. yes indeed... not just one... and in fact...

a moderator at one of them now...

[fudge stripe cookays]

85. Yep, I left because it got soooooo slooooooooowwww....

Plus, I'm one of the popular kids here now! :eyes:

Or something.
FSC

[Misunderestimator]

89. Hahaha....

That's funny... because I was pretty damn invisible there myself... at least it felt like that... kind of cliqueish. It can be that way here too, but there are so many great people here that there's a clique for everyone :)

[nashville_brook]

106. omg... oddtodd... you rock...

great name!

[fudge stripe cookays]

116. That's what they tell me!

:D

[anarchy1999]

81. What in heaven's name happened in the last couple of days?

Someone help me out here. I've only been off for a couple of days and all hell breaks loose. Just last week Mari333 was calling me asking me to put her in touch with VetWife.

I did warn her about her posting on those "other" sites, guess she didn't listen and I did buy her CD. I helped her to be a guest on RadioLeft and now all I see here is negative. WHAT HAPPENED in the last couple of days?

I need some help here! If I learn that we (my husband & I), have been taken for fools one more time this week, well I'm just not sure what our response will be, except to be extremely reluctant to help anyone ever.

I'd like to hear from FSC, BHN or Nostamj on this, please.

[Misunderestimator]

90. I'm not one of the ones you asked...

and I never talked to her, but I did also buy her CD last year, and have exchanged messages with her, and I was taken in by her "activism" as well. She has firmly planted herself on the conservative side of the spectrum as odd as that is, if you listened to that rather long CD of hers. :shrug:

[fudge stripe cookays]

103. Cherck your PMs, sweetie. n/t

[tblue37]

120. I also hang out at SC.

That's where I first encountered Amanda--and she was very much on our side back then.

[Coventina]

26. NSMA, I love you a little more each day!

:loveya:

And 'vetwife' can kiss my sn@tch!
Good riddance to bad rubbish as my departed mother used to say.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Misunderestimator]

29. Welcome to DU...

interesting way to introduce yourself :hi:

[Richard Steele]

32. Already gone....too fast!

[Misunderestimator]

34. darn sockpuppets

[G_j]

36. you bet

unlike some, we actually care about the welfare of soldiers and Vets. Maybe you aren't angry because you really don't give a shit what happens to them?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

39. Here lies the body of a freeper troll

his mouth and his ass are the same smelly hole


Notice, the person posted a one liner instead of answering my question *crickets*

[reichstag911]

33. Good riddance to vetwife.

Clearly, her democratic beliefs were not sufficient to prevent her from going over to the fascist side...American Conservative Forum...OMFG. And whether she likes it or not, American soldiers are criminals, as I state in my published LTTE at http://www.suntimes.com/output/letters/cst-edt-vox25a.html . If one reads it critically, one can see it is not an indictment of the troops themselves. Calling them "criminals" is nothing more than a statement of fact, insofar as they have vioated the UCMJ provision about not following illegal orders, not to mention their obligation to defend the Constitution against domestic enemies thereof. Specifically, there is the Constitutional dictum that "all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land," including the treaty creating the UN, of which the US was a charter member. Or how about the Geneva Conventions? Also a treaty obligation the violation of which (Abu Ghraib, anyone?) is consequently both an international and domestic crime.

Clearly, joining the Guard or the Reserves is frequently, if not usually, an economic decision made by impressionable kids whose job opportunities are limited at best. But they chose that course, they chose to swear their oath to protect and defend the Constitution, not the administration. With the softening/elimination of the Posse Comitatus Act, when those same troops are loosed on us here in America who presume to speak against a criminal government, where's "vetwife" gonna be? Cheering on her adored military from the comfort of a Barcalounger while chomping on some Cheetos and flicking the remote would be my guess.

[Ripley]

37. I feel used. Does Guy James know about this?

I bet he will feel used too. I personally thanked her for her work and felt like she was doing the left good by Showing you could be against Bush and the repukes yet still support the men and women in uniform.

I'm rarely shocked, but this one got me.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. I think she was sincere when she got here, but I also think

She was UNWILLING to distinguish honest criticism of all the laws broken by both troops and their CO's in Iraq.

I think she wanted support from both sides of the aisle which is commendable, but as she participated on other sites, she bought into the criticism of this place.

Most people here support the grunts in the military, but have VALID issues with this war and many aspects of it. There are very few posts at DU with inflammatory statements about the military.

The 2nd amendment seems to be the only amendment conservatives love.

[XanaDUer]

45. My "support" of the troops extends to recognizing

that they are pawns in a giant shell game not of their own making.

Wholeheartedly accepting anything a soldier does just because s/he wears a US uniform is nationalism, not patriotism. I tried explaining this to a deluded relative once, and now we are no longer speaking.

I especially hate stupid "Support the Troops" car stickers stuck on giant (and small) cars and SUVs. I feel like screaming at the SUV drivers-"People are dying because of oil and you're not supporting them at all!"

Wars are too complex and the reasons for them too complex to spout bumper-stickers slogans and think that that is the last word.

To vetwife-although they may couch it in terms you dislike, most DUers support troops the best way-by making sure they do not die in a folly like Bush's Vietnam, which Iraq is becoming.

Especially since many of those troops are drawn, by economic necessity, from the poor and working classes. Yes, it's voluntary, but how voluntary is military service you go into because there is no other option or choice?

Bush is cutting education-how does that support troops?

How does ANYTHING Bush does support troops, other than paying lip service to that support?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

75. If she goes to a whole series of RW sites and even moderates there

now I don't know so much about giving a benefit of a doubt.

Honestly I never knew what to make of her posts. It was always only about the vet stuff, or promoting her CD. Seriously. I think I got a few PM's from her and they always mentioned her selling the CD.

For anyone who bought this, what the hell was in it?

My impression now is that she was a plant, and now these RW sites will say, "DU is so antimilitary that they alienated a longtime veteran's wife member!" Lame.

I do try to maintain an open mind and leave open the possibility that she might have been sincere, just stupid and crazy. But her actions now suggest otherwise.

Is her username "vetwife" on these RW forums?

[Misunderestimator]

91. Same thing here.... I bought the CD...

and it is rather boring... music in the background, and her voice going on and on about how awful the Bush administration is and listing all the programs that have been cut... it's really very, very odd that she's gone postal now.

I don't think she was a plant... my opinion. I think she was self-centered and looking for a profit (at least after this morning I think that) and that she did have sincere passion about veteran's rights and benefits. I also think that she was too easily seduced by the other side in their unadultered and unconditional support of the military. Somehow she has forgotten how she opposed the war, and now she is on the mongering side.

She had a hard time with ANY criticism of the military, even the Abu Graib criminals, and was pro-death penalty to an extreme.

And, yes, her username was the same.

[Sapphire Blue]

94. Have you Googled....

'vetwife'?

Apparently one & the same in this & the 'other' sites.... she consistently misspells the word, 'sacrifice', as 'sacrafice'.

Gee, she never answered my question last night.... who do I thank for the freedoms being taken away by the PATRIOT ACT.

[0007]

119. She is on the Guy James show right now

and some of her DU followers are applauding.

I don't get it! I've never ever trusted her.

[ScreamingMeemie]

40. Yes, but that's not important right now...it's about putting little cammo

(fuck the yellow) magnets on our cars and shouting down those with legitimate concerns as unpatriotic. So shut up...because you may make us think.... :hi:

[Zinfandel]

41. Now this is the fucking energy I love to get behind!!

First of all your right on the fucking money -- your sincere passion shines through very clearly.

I despise these greedy lying, heartless, racist, sexist poor-oppressing republican fascist motherfuckers. I will give my life taking the slimy lying fucks down...They lie, cheat, smear, distort, anything, ANYTHING, for money, they are a disgusting excuse for being slime!

[flyarm]

43. you tell it like it is!! i am proud of you!!!

and how about three days after * sent our troops to war he put in a budget cut for all vets..bet these so call ass wipes thought that was supporting vets too!!

i hate those assholes who pretend to support anything other than their own damn checking accounts..they are hypocrites..but more important i think they are traitors to their nation and to our troops!! the lying ( cuss word cuss word cuss word)

they make me puke!

fly

[flyarm]

49. no child left behind is ...

a front for a poor kids draft! it is a license for the pentagon to go into our kids schools and recruit with no parental over sight!!

so tell us vetwife..how is that supporting the troops?? by putting in kids who are shaghied into the armed services??
yes vet wife..the pentagon is now going into schools as low as 8th graders and attempting to recruit and brain wash our kids into more illegal wars * has planned...

you may be a vet wife..but an american..i think not..we have never done this before this sneaky and un moral!! and behind the backs of american parents!!

i am glad this woman is gone..she does not stand for my values ...in fact she is an affront to my values as an american!

fly

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

51. I agree on NCLB...make sure kids don't have economic opportunity

make it difficult for poor people to get into college and the poor will fight to protect the rich.

And yeah...the other day she posted a pro-death penalty thread. When I asked her what punishment Jesus would mete out she responded kindly to me, but I still think that overall, she betrayed DU.

She scoffed at inflammatory posts here while kissing ass with people who post some of the most racist drivel I've witnessed.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

79. Speaking of NCLB.... A Dismal Failure, Just like *

States want more control over No Child Left Behind
By Greg Toppo, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — A bipartisan group of state legislators wants the Bush administration and Congress to give states sweeping new control over how they rate schools, teachers and students under President Bush's No Child Left Behind education law, saying the law as it stands is a "rigid and inaccurate yardstick" of success.
In a report issued Wednesday, the National Conference of State Legislatures says the law sets unrealistic expectations and defies common-sense notions of how to rate schools.

Continued
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-02-23-education-control_x.htm?csp=34

[FreedomAngel82]

108. Looks like they're

going to be preparing for something eh? :crazy: :nopity:

[FreedomAngel82]

107. I remember when I first heard about that

I was so pissed off. :grr: Now we know what Bush means by "no child left behind." Heh.

[Swamp Rat]

47. Damn right we support the troops!

SOME of us have family in combat and many DUers are most honorable veterans.

My disappointment in vetwife prevented me from posting in the "good bye" thread. I watched it all happen, but bit my tongue as I didn't want to participate in one of the worst type of divisive threads I've seen in a while... and it was a very embarrassing 'swan song' too.

I bet vetwife will call Guy James today. DUers should listen and call the show to counter any anti-DU "they bash troops" propaganda. It may turn out to be a very interesting and revealing show.

[flyarm]

50. can you pm me the link for guy james show and times?? thx!! n/t

[Swamp Rat]

52. Look for "The Official Guy James Show Thread" in GD

http://www.theguyjamesshow.com/

Listen Live Saturdays From 7-10 PM EST

[flyarm]

63. thanks..!!! n/t

[CatWoman]

48. Right on, Teena

as a disabled vet, I can't tell you how much Amanda disappointed and offended me with her bullshit.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

53. Exactly...I know you and know you served

and yet they are happy to slam you over there much as they slammed MATCOM who served in the persian gulf.

(but nevermind...when THEY don't support our troops...what a fucking hypocrite she turned out to be)

[Swamp Rat]

55. Listen for vetwife to call the Guy James Show this evening.

I hope DUers will call in or write Guy to counter any anti-DU, 'they bash the troops' propaganda.

http://www.theguyjamesshow.com/

Listen Live Saturdays From 7-10 PM EST

[stevedeshazer]

54. That was a damned nice rant.

I completely agree.

[erpowers]

56. I Agree

I agree with you I just want to know what tombstoned means. It is sad that people who push for wars and do not themselves want to fight those wars, and then care more about tax cuts than providing to things that the military needs are called patriotic and the people who are against foolish wars are called unpatriotic. I did not know that vetwife had gone to conservative sites and talked bad about democratic underground.

[Mr_Spock]

84. Even worse, she is a moderator at a site that would bash DU

...and in the post I read, she did not defend DU when attacked. Apparently she also disparaged DU in other threads - though I did not bother to read these myself (I don't need the hate).

[FreedomAngel82]

109. Sad really

:( And I remember one time some right-winger called into Malloy going on and on about the Iraq war and how it was right and Malloy asked him why he wasn't over there and his only excuse was he wasn't a solider. Duh. Go sign up! I think if people are for the war they should go sign up and help them. I'm listening to Guy James now. I've never heard him before and I like him so far. :) I liked how he told people to go and do their own research and don't just take talk show hosts opinion on it.

[kaitykaity]

57. When the link to the "shall be unnamed" site came up,

I accused the person who posted it of talking
out of their ass.

Then when the second thread about it came up,
I posted that I thought it was a ringer.

Gawd, do I feel like a dum-dum. :spank:

Some drama is fun once in a whole, but d*mn, what
a mess. I didn't know her that well, just from
the Guy James threads. I can imagine how some of
her quote unquote friends feel.

Good riddance to bad rubbish, and I hope she enjoys
it when she gets sick of her new "friends" and wants
to come back to a place that is sane and the admins
tell her to choke on it.

[bearfan454]

59. This is bullshit

You told them good NSMAM. VA is the only health care I have now. 250 a year for generic meds is TOTAL BULLSHIT ! Fuck bush and his chickenhawk pals.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

61. I feel that we live in a nation that has been bullied into bankruptcy

by a cult.

No matter what Republican lies, they are forgiven. No matter the duplicitous reasons for taking us to war, they are forgiven. No matter what immoral acts a repub commits such as whoring their body to numerous people on the internet while asking softball questions to the idiot in chief, they are a victim...

We should support our troops, but they can wear purple heart bandaids at their convention mocking the injuries of people they disagree with and get a pass. They can use advertising to compare Max Cleland to Saddam Hussein after the man gave his LIMBS to an unjust war and get a pass.

They can put yellow ribbons made in China on their cars while the things that DO matter to vets such as medical care for the disabilities they sustained (many in unjust wars) get cut.

What utter bullshit. Only a cult memnber can repeatedly go along with this.

[Misunderestimator]

69. Damn...

:loveya:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

114. Teena, what an awesome post

you hit the nail on the head.

[FreedomAngel82]

115. Great points

The thing that's so disgusting is they spew "support the troops! support the troops!" but then when one runs against them that served honorably and none of their people did they go against them. They went after Clark as well in the beginning of his running. :( And the purpleheart bandaid thing was just disgusting. :puke: And when I heard what they did to Cleland. Ugh. What abunch of hypocrites and fools.

[Bouncy Ball]

87. I'm so sorry bearfan

it looks like my husband's employer may give up health coverage altogether (too expensive) so he will be turning to the VA for health coverage and will get to pay this lovely veteran's tax, too.

I don't know whether to cry or scream. Maybe both.

[VOX]

60. YES! nsma, may I give you a bear-hug?

You are one of the most "on-fire" posters here, and you are inspiring in your passion. Thanks for being "you."
:hug: :hug: :hug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

62. that was sweet

thanks :hug:

[Catherine Vincent]

67. Hey!

You two get a room!:-)

j/j

[Solly Mack]

66. I know the difference between flag waving support and actual support

DU gives actual support.

Thank you, Teena!

[Zen]

70. You're talking about people who'd kill their mother for a dollar

These people have no morals or ethics - nothing should surprise us WRT their craven depravity.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

72. TO NON MEMBERS READING THIS THREAD AT OTHER SITES

How come you don't comment on the article you jack boot licking assholes? Knocking me is great (not that what you think of me is any of my business) but at least you could read the article and explain why those troop supporting Repubs have no trouble giving it up the ass to vets when they get back.

I guess TAXING them for their healthcare, making purple heart bandaids to mock those with injuries that belong to a different political party, and calling Max Cleland a terrorist even though he lost several limbs is much more patriotic.


So ...to those calling me a militant lesbian out there in cyber space....EAT ME. :evilgrin:

[Misunderestimator]

74. Honey... you may be a "militant lesbian"...

to quote the unquotable, but you're MY militant lesbian... :loveya: :)

[Zen]

76. You're talking to people who justify war crimes on a daily basis

WTF do they care about veterans? These same ass-holes criticized Clinton for bringing freedom & liberty to Kosovo - without losing any American lives BTW! They don't care a bit about veterans - holding on to power by creating conflict and then say they are protecting us from this new concocted enemy - that's what these lying murderers are about...

[Stone_Spirits]

78. why would they care?

I don't see those con-artist flag wavers fighting for the Vets, for the proper care of the maimed and wounded. That is the cause for us "bleeding hearts". Remember, actually caring about people is "soft".

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

82. I've never seen a thread over there about casualties or

a question about whether injured vets that weren't counted as casualties at the time went on to die.

[Cooley Hurd]

111. No you haven't, because the reich wing is all about denial...

...denial of casualties, denial of torture by Coalition forces, denial of civilian dead (well, actually, I believe they cheer that on "over there"). Last, but not least, they're in denial that we're NOT winning this war, despite our overwhelming force.

They just walk past it all, whistling in the dark...

[KG]

77. she was just another idiot that couldn't accept the fact that everybody

didn't kiss her ass because of who she was married to.

met several in my lifetime.

[Mr_Spock]

83. It takes a special kind of self-centered ass-hole to do what she did

I have no sympathy at this point - you play both sides of the fence, you are loved by neither - get over it.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

80. Absof*ckinglutely Fantastic Post!!!! n/t

[thecorster]

86. This is too angry for my blood n/t

[Misunderestimator]

88. Care to expand on that? Why is it too angry? Does the truth hurt?

[thecorster]

95. let me count the ways...

"FUCKING IDIOTS
FUCKING TOOLS
FUCKING ASSWIPES
SO STUPID
EMPTY FUCKING HEAD
MOTHERFUCKING PATRIOTIC
conservative ASSHOLES"

Are those enough reasons?

I'm all for swearing when its funny, but there's an old expression that goes, "profanity is the strongest expression of the weakest mind."

While I agree with the ideas in the post, its angry ranting doesn't do much to woo me. Just my opinion, bro.

[Mr_Spock]

97. I love it

It perfectly expresses the outrage of someone who has been manipulated & lied about by selfish weak-minded ass-wipes. If you cared about what was going on, perhaps you would be outraged at these losers and let go a bit. It's a lack of vibrant energy that leaves a political party scratching it's head when things don't go well. You don't have to like it, but posting something inane like that just because you couldn't think of anything useful to add to our rant thread is childish. So there :P

[BeHereNow]

98. Trust me, there is nothing weak about NSMA's mind.

You are entitled to express your feelings about
the use of profanity- but I must tell you mine:
There are NO words strong enough in my mind to
decribe the obscenity of the actions of our
leadership and those who blindly engage
in the cult think and actions.
I havew given up trying to verbalize my
outrage and I appreciate it when someone
else can, so if profanity offends you, be prepared
to put certain posters and threads on the hide
feature- ME? I love NMSA's mind and articulation.
BHN

[Misunderestimator]

112. LMAO... Whatever "bro"

Angry ranting has its FUCKING place in my book, "bro"

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

125. OK rewritten for the scatalogically averse

A little word to conservatives who claim we don't support troops:

YOU VOTED FOR THE (unscatalogical term for people who didn't protect this country before 9/11, ignored the warning signs, lied about who really attacked us and how they were funded, bankrupted a nation that had a surplus and continue to rob us blind ) WHO ARE NOW TAXING VETS IN ORDER TO UNDERWRITE THEIR TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHY.

YOU PEOPLE ARE (unscatalogical word for people who are being tools and proud of it)!

YOU VOTED FOR PEOPLE WHO GIVE LIPSERVICE TO SUPPORTING THE TROOPS WHILE THEY CUT THEIR BENEFITS AND TAX THEM. (editorial note: I did have one scatalogically free thought there , didn't I?...sometimes they disgust me more than anger me :) )

HOW COULD YOU BE SO (terribly unsmart)???

******************************************************

OK..I tried it your way and it's just not me. Sorry.

[BeHereNow]

96. PURRRFECT Post NSMA

You have illustrated perfectly the INSANITY
of the cult group think.
What I have concluded about the
rah-rah "support the troops or you're a traitor"
mentality of the pack is this:
I believe it is further manifestation of the
twisted narcissistic souls in this country and has NOTHING
to do with supporting anything other than
a momentary identity of a self-aggrandizing self.
In other words, these people are more invested in their
identities as "good people" than the actual issue they
claim identity with.
One of the traits of narcissistic disorder is a tendency
to lash out at anyone or thing that fractures the
manufactured perfect self image. Narcissists, in their
minds are good and perfect people, and whatever "cause"
they can cling to and form an identity in will do.
No criticism or examination of negative aspects are
allowed of either the cause or the narcissist.
The "I am leaving" threads are always based in the
persecution of a "victim."
The stance always taken by a narcissist who "feels"
the rest of the world is wrong and to blame.
They are "good" the rest of us are not.
Very black and white.
BHN

[NC_Nurse]

100. I second that!

Vetwife's posts always struck me as drama queen stuff. The goodbye post with all the gratuitous pics showing what a saint she was proves that, IMO. She found an issue that made her a "star" and will follow it wherever people will listen....*yawn*.

[RetroLounge]

118. She found an issue that made her a "star"

Sounds like someone else who is now banned from here (Bev).

Total Drama Queen.
Asking for Money.
Freeper-type actions.
Now Banned.
Not missed...

RL

[Kat45]

122. I must have missed that one too.

What happened with Bev? (You can PM me if it's not supposed to be discussed in a thread.)

[Misunderestimator]

113. Well put!

:hi:

[Ladyhawk]

99. I've had her on ignore for a couple of months.

My freepdar went off.

[underseasurveyor]

101. Little words is all 'cons' can barely comprehend anyhoo

Assclowns ain't nun tu brite

[troubleinwinter]

123. It's hard to know what to say about her going to those sites, but...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

126. ROFLPIMP!

:thumbsup: I hear ya!

[troubleinwinter]

127. Ya know,

I think nothing shocks me anymore. I mean, really!!!

[Rhiannon12866]

135. I totally missed this controversy and don't know this person, but after

Reading what you had to say, I thought you might be interested in this site. It's called Veterans for Common Sense, and I don't even remember how I first ran across it, but I signed up for their newsletter. What they've had to say about this hideous war has made a lot of sense to me, and these are veterans!

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/

I've also hoped that reading this would help me find common ground with a lifelong friend, a graduate of West Point, career army, who is one of the nicest people I know, but we've gotten into it over this Iraq war. He said that he was coming around to my point of view, then Bush* launched his illegal preemptive attack and my friend said that we had to "finish" what we were committed to! At what price?! And for how long?!

Actually, I started it, losing it when he sent me a article for a change, some Italian journalist saying that we should have invaded Iraq immediately after 9/11! Why?! We've since had other skirmishes over unequal treatment of veterans, but it is 9/11 that really fries me! These idiots ignored the memos and the intelligence and there are actually people in this country who voted for Bush* because they think he will keep them "safer?! The greatest intelligence failure in history, thousands of people are dead and this crew boasts about it and uses it to their advantage?! WTF?:wtf:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

136. Thanks for the link..will check it out

[Moderator]

137. Locking

These threads have gotten out of control. This is now a private matter between the admins and the banned member. If anyone has questions or comments, they can post in the Ask the Admins forum.

Thanks for your concern.