How do we get back all those "moderates" that voted for Bush?

[kentuck]

Someone asked that question on a previous post. Wow! That's a good question. Do we get down on our knees and beg them for forgiveness for telling the truth about them ? That we are sorry that they fucked up and don't have the sense of a chicken to get out of the rain? That's really a good question...

[Padraig18]

1. the first thing we do is DON'T ridicule and demean them.

Salesmanship 101.

[seabeyond]

3. you mean respect........ tried it, didnt work n/t

[Padraig18]

5. Ummm....

So? Try again. I can guarantee that ridiculing and demeaning them won't work.

[seabeyond]

16. i do i do.

if you read my post. adn will continue to. that is who i am and the people i am dealing with are people i love. wouldnt be anything less

[seabeyond]

17. i was refering to the party as a whole, this last election

just an observation. but i want them to continue to be too, just cause that is who we are. not winning campaigns though, now is it

[fooj]

6. Agreed.

[Newsjock]

2. For many of them ...

... just make sure their vote is actually counted next time around.

More practically, where are our own "Harry and Louise" ads, that should be running night and day on every channel that will take them?

[vi5]

9. I don't kno w any moderates who are concerned about vote counting..

I'm not saying it's not something we should fight for and think about but if we honestly think that voting accuracy is even a blip on the radar of "moderate" voters we'll be fooling ourselves big time. If the subject at hand is appealing to moderates (which I question the wisdom of to begin with, but I digress), then voting accuracy is not even in the top 5 of their items of importance. Does anyone really think that anyone who is concerned with that issue voted for Bush because they thought he would insure that more votes were counted?

I agree about the Harry and Louise ads though.

[Zan_of_Texas]

11. You missed the point.

Perhaps 9 million people, lots of them "moderates" thought they already voted for Kerry, but their votes were counted for Bush.

Thus, CONVINCING them that election reform is important ... is NOT vitally important.

REFORMING ELECTIONS is important, so that when they vote for a Democrat, or whoever, their vote will count.

It's not solely about message or framing or positioning or what candidate.

Let's get elections cleaned up, and then we can talk about policy and stuff.

[tinonedown]

12. Perhaps nine million?

That is a massive number. Where did you get that from? I followed mostly the fraud in Ohio, maybe yours are national numbers.

[MrModerate]

10. Getting the moderates to vote? Get the truth to them

How will we get the moderates back? I thought we had them. Absent the many flavors of voter fraud, we probably would have won 2004, just as we won 2000.

And Kerry got the largest number of votes ever for a losing candidate. Cold comfort, perhaps, but it does indicate that many of the moderates can tell the difference between a good president and a bad one.

This is not rocket science. It's communication, salesmanship (see above) and hard work:

1) Keep hammering on the bogus voting systems. Every shenanigan we uncover now will be harder to use in 2006 and 2008
2) Craft our messages better -- in a battle of ideas the Republicans will lose, and while I happily voted for Kerry because I believed his ideas corresponded closely enough to mine, they weren't sharp, they weren't pointed, and they weren't effective enough in convincing the unconvinced
3) Keep feeding the media the truth; continue creating echo chambers of our own
4) Continue to point out the dire results of Bush's failings
5) Come up with compelling candidates (can you say "Obama")
6) Organize, organize, organize
7) Work with Howard Dean, even if you disagree with him on some points, because he's bloody awful effective and honorable to boot; work with MoveOn, because they can mobilize a million people overnight; work locally; work through the Internet

**P.S. -- just saw the post about whether voter fraud is a motivator for moderates who voted for Bush. No, not really. It's a matter for US because -- at least I'm convinced -- many moderates whose votes were counted for Bush (or whose votes weren't counted at all) DID agree with us, DID vote against Bush, and we MUST be sure they get counted next time**

[fooj]

4. Honestly Kentuck, I don't KNOW any moderates that voted for Shrub!

I know of five Repub moderates that ALL VOTED FOR KERRY! In light of recent developments...I can't imagine any "moderate" would be pleased with this jackass! Peace!

[dsc]

8. Given that 51% of the nation voted for Bush

he had better have gotten some moderates to vote for him. The alternative is that 51% of the country is right wing wack jobs.

[stray cat]

7. It would be helpful to know why they voted for Bush.

I know some people who simply didn't like Kerry. I know farmers who voted for him because his politics at the time benefited farmers. Security was a big deal to some women with kids - why did the democrats lose on that issue with people?

However, that kind of knowledge would require listening to their viewpoints. We don't have to change anything but it would be nice to know what worked for the republicans in framing the differences.

[julialnyc]

13. I think they should stop trying to get mods with social issues

I actually know some moderates who voted for Bush (I tried my hardest) and the reason they voted for him was because of terrorism.


Any voter who has abortion, gay marriage, ect.... as their top priority is NOT A MODERATE they will always vote Republican no matter what.

The Democrats need to be strong and be who they are. NO EXCUSES! We are pro-choice, pro-civil rights, ect......No wavering, no "I am pro-choice, but for all the people who don't like that, I wouldn't have one myself".

I like the idea Donnie Fowler had about having the image of Democrats and guns be one of "military guns" rather than assault weapons. This does not mean that we preach war, or want to attack anyone, but we must project strength to keep us safe by intelligence and intelligent approach.

I think these are the moderates we can win back, not the social issue voters.

[tsuki]

14. I think that the Republican Party will alienate the moderates all

by themselves.

Don't talk election fraud. They don't understand. And are not interested.

Don't talk medicaid, Wal Mart, social programs. Medicaid and social programs=welfare queens (until it effects them.) Wal Marts is kewl (yes they really say that) and Sam Walton was so smart.

Moderates are for the most part, in my limited experience, self absorbed. So find the one issue that pushes their button. Bone up on that issue and hammer them with it.

For security moms, the open borders.

Veterans and retirees, cuts in benefits.

Farmers, abolishing farm subsidies.

Those born before 1950, the cuts in Social Security.

Fundies, Jeff Gannon with a little Jerry Falwell and the Rev Moon connection on the side. Oh and the crowning is a good story too. Especially since Jesus is a "failed' Messiah & the Rev Moon a "real" one.

This is not to say that moderates or the undecided are stupid, they are unengaged by politics and policies until it effects them. So, find out what effects them. And don't wander off-task.

[BR_Parkway]

15. Start by fixing the voting machines, then we might know how many

we actually need to get back.

[Al-CIAda]

18. "How do we get back all those "moderates" that voted for Bush?"

Show them how 9-11 was an inside job.

[CindyDale]

19. I don't know any moderates that voted for Bush

but I do know Republican moderates who voted for Kerry. Maybe it's different down here in Florida. I don't know.

[blm]

20. Smartass lefties didn't help by claiming there's no difference between

Gore/Kerry and Bush.

That bullshit only helps the GOP.

[Awsi Dooger]

21. It's the candidate, stupid

If we continue to harp senselessly on who voted for what bill or who supported some war or did not, we'll masochistically nominate more likeability-challenged, semi-strange know-it-alls who the general public will never warm up to, or vote for.

Kerry flopped the candidate test last summer, as I deaded all year. I drove across the country -- Nevada to New York to Florida -- and, while stopping at real-world places like convenience stores or fast food joints, I would bring up Kerry's name and gauge the reaction. It was almost never positive. Caution or distrust or nonchalance prevailed. Outright disgust easily outnumbered raging enthusiasm. This was before the Swift Boat stuff, which could not have been more overrated.

These everyday people vote and, like after opening statements in a trial, their minds are already made up. There is virtually no such thing as a comeback in national politics. The leader in September polls, especially late September polls, is virtually undefeated since Truman. Check the internet. The astute political analysts who study presidential trends invariably point that out, among their criteria. Next time you read about a closer, throw him out first.

Moderates will flock to someone they like, just like the thoughtful members on either side of the political spectrum.

There will be tens of thousands of DU threads regarding our 2008 nominee. Anything that doesn't laser focus on likeability is mostly garbage.

As much as I love Hillary, I'm afraid the same Joes and Janes I queried in summer 2004 would have an even less friendly view of her than John Kerry.

[saracat]

24. Yeah, that is why Kerry got more votes than any Democratic candidate in

history!But you probably, like Clinton , believe in spite of indications to the contrary, that "Bush won fair and square". Even the author Christopher Hitchens, who loathes Kerry wrote "Ohio By the Numbers" to illustrate that Ohio was stolen.
BTW, these "moderates " aren't that "thoughtful", or they wouldn't have supported Bush!
And you must not know your politics if you think "there is no such thing as a comeback!"
TRUMAN BEATS DEWEY comes to mind, as does the "Comeback Kid" , Bill Clinton.
As far as likability goes, you are as likable as the press "says" you are. Bush has zero personality and yet he is referred to as "charming" He is just an oaf. Kerry on the other hand',was "the charismatic Junior Senator from Massachusetts" until he ran for President. Somehow he lost his charisma. Charisma is is granted to those they wish to win. Dean had "charisma" until they decided to take it away.
Until we give people a real political choice , instead of trying to be Repuke lite, and until we count the votes. it won't matter a rats ass who our candidate is.

[marions ghost]

31. well said, saracat

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :kick:

[saracat]

22. There are NO moderates who voted for Bush. Concentrate on the 79 million

who didn't vote and WOULD have voted Democratic if they had. They won't vote for Repuke lite. Many didn't vote because we pandered to these "so called moderates", and painted Kerry as less the liberal than he is. Please.Anyone who voted for Bush has NO excuse .They are either stupid or evil. And I don't want their vote.I want the 79 million others. I have zero interest in pleasing these people. They have NEVER done anything for us.The red states, and I live in one, are just parasites on the back of the blue ones.That is an indisputable fact.So , why should we even think to demean ourselves any further in pleasing our enemies? And they are enemies and this is war! We are fighting for the soul of America and many Dems see it as "just an election", and that is why we lose. The Repukes treat this as "War". This isn't "polite political discourse". They do not take any prisoners, and neither should we.Ask yourself how many Republicans and conservatives voted for Kerry instead of Bush? Now, that is a question worth pursuing!

[Stevepol]

23. The moderates voted for Kerry; the voting machines voted Repub.

Any post that takes as a premise that the 04 election results are valid and not fraudulent is empty of meaning. It's like assuming that 2 + 2 = 18 and then trying to explain it. Kerry won the election and most of the moderates. There's nobody to win back.

[applegrove]

25. You go back to your Liberal roots and study what it means to be

Liberal. It does not mean that you ignore the market. If you have more in your life than simply the food you could grow on your front or back lawn, you are in a market.

Too often Social Justice types ignore how the middle class only exists because markets too. That is where jobs & specialization in anything other than subsistence farming come from. That being said - it doesn't mean you don't regulate markets to be more transparent and to serve the people of your country. For instance, universal health care actually performs better than the private market for health. It keeps costs down & is more equitable.

That is what I would do. I would take a good long look at how much of capitalists we really are, and then reaffirm that though the markets are the most efficient thing (& the only thing that creates middle class) they need to be watched.

And once you have done that you stop talking anti-market things all the time (which scares middle class people who do like the extra money they make above simply feeding and housing their families). For sure the elites will take over if there is not a transfer of wealth. For sure we are for regulations. But we are also capitalists.

So we all have to look into our hearts and read and learn the truths. Freepers are not the only ones who fool themselves. We need to know the world around us & that we actually need to have open markets so that we in the west can actually participate in the HUGE middle class creation that will take place in India, China, Brazil & Russia in the next 6 decades. That is where the wealth will all be. Growth in the current Western Nations on their own would be negative - unless we participate.

And yes wages going down is scary - but so will the prices of everything (talk to decorators, psychologists, pharmacies, medicine, book publishers, etc.) that all now face competition from the internet. It is a changing world but you embrace that change (and the fact that the poorest of the poor in Africa will now have a chance at World Markets so they will have bigger middle classes too).

In other words - we have to stop being Utopians (like Nader). And start voting for the things we actually need day in day out: an okay market for jobs (if not in a mid-sized firm, then at least you run your own business or work for a corporation). You have to embrace and encourage the good corporate citizens. Instead of making people in the middle the enemy - you make it the people on the far Utopian right the enemy: those that want no regulation of corporations want perpetual war, want to destroy the government or at least bankrupt it.

[UdoKier]

26. NO moderates voted for Bush.

Ignorant people who think they are moderate and rely on the corporate military-industrial-media complex for their news, MAYBE. But is is impossible that ANY true moderate could have voted for such a murderous extremist.

[Telly Savalas]

32. My thoughts exactly when I read the original post.

Voting for Bush precludes one from being called a moderate.

The only Bush voters we should be trying to win over are the ones who were so politically disengaged that they didn't realize how bad Bush is. Doing this doesn't require us to cede ground on any issues. We just need a better and more organized PR campaign.

[journalist3072]

27. Getting back some of those moderates....

I think we have to press the point home that you should NEVER EVER vote for a politican who wants to play to your worst fears. I find that tactic downright insulting to me as a voter.

Anyone running for the highest office in the land should be trying to appeal to your best hopes, not play to your worst fears.

Secondly, I think we need to encourage people to truly educate themselves, and do research, so that when they go into the voting booth, they really know what the issues are.

After the election, it occured to me that many Bush voters allowed themselves to be dumbed down. We all know that the right-wing overwhelming permeates the radio talk show airwaves. And they don't have any respect for telling the truth. And they don't encourage their listeners to get the facts for themselves. So you have a lot of people who are listening to right-wing talk radio, just taking for granted that what they are hearing is correct, and they don't bother to do their own research.

[paineinthearse]

28. Eduacate them to the fact that their party was hijacked by neococons.

It's not their party any more. Buchanan is trying, how can his message get to more? Or is it too late?

[Rex]

29. Until we regain the ability to monitor elections

we won't know if moderates actually did vote for the boy king.

[stanwyck]

30. The smart ones will turn away

from the Republican Party when they realize they've been played for fools. Republicans, like everyone else, are losing ground. Unemployment remains high. The economy is still faltering. We don't have affordable healthcare. The fundamentalist wing of the Republican Party is clogging up state legislatures with bill after bill bent on legislating religion into law. Our country is denigrated internationally. Our children are not being educated adequately. We're wrecking our environment. The corporations have won; the people have lost. And hate-radio, owned by the corporations, has brainwashed listeners to fall into lockstep with the Bushies. So they vote against their own interests. But the smart ones will eventually realize they've been played for fools. They'll turn off the radio, think for themselves, and believe in an America that stands for people, not corporations.

[Padraig18]

33. National security is our Achilles' Heel.

I know moderates who agreed with Kerry on virtually every issue, save one--- national security. That was the sole basis of their vote for Bush*. *sigh*

You know and I know that Kerry woud have done a better job keeping America safe than the neocons would, but we couldn't convince a large part of the electorate of that fact,and it cost us the election. We absolutely must figure out how to be credible on this issue in a way that convinces these folks. How do we do it?

:shrug:

[Sapphire Blue]

34. Hire a few million cult deprogrammers?