Thank a Vet because War Keeps us Free?

[Sandpiper]

Am I the only one who's uncomfortable with the idea that "war keeps us free," and that I should consider whatever armed conflict the military is currently engaged in to be a "fight for my freedom?"

The idea that countries like Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Iraq, etc. were ever a threat to my freedom seems more than a little silly.

Just because we've started shooting at someone doesn't mean it's a fight for freedom.

[qanda]

1. DUCK!!!!!!!

[Karenina]

24. DUCK!!!!!!!

[Kyosanshugi]

26. GOOSE!!!!!!!

[ima_sinnic]

2. I soooo agree!

but it's a jingoistic way to keep the masses hypnotized by the phony "righteousness" of the scumbag warmongers' avaricious plunder and brutality.

[mzmolly]

3. Exactly. I am thankful that we have a military in case we need one. I

also don't "blame" the soldiers for engaging in combat once our Government says they must do so, but I'll be damned if I by the black and white argument that "EVERY" war we fight is noble/good/necessary.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Freedom was won by blood shed on American soil

by labor, anti-slavery, anti-segregation, women, and gay activists fighting to make this country the "land of the free." That's how freedom was won! The only time the military had anything to do with freedom, other than the War of Independence, was the Second World War.

[ultraist]

10. Excellent points! Activists also fought and DIED for our freedoms!

Martin Luther King, Jr. for the most OBVIOUS example!

This war is NOT being waged to protect our freedoms and I refuse to buy into the propaganda.

[RoyGBiv]

21. Anti-Slavery

Of course anti-slavery activism took a huge leap forward with a little help from the military. Obviously that was not the initial intent, but unless one wants to argue that slavery would have died a natural death in a country built around protecting slavery from those anti-slavery activists, one must give the military some credit.

In any case, I get what you're saying, but it's not always possible to divorce the work of activists and the use of military force, in its various forms. Military force has been on both the wrong and correct side of these battles, which is true of the Revolution and WWII as well.

[Upfront]

5. No

You are not alone.

[yurbud]

6. think of it like the police...

You can condemn the Rodney King beating, or how police are deployed against protestors, but you still need them when your car gets stolen or you get mugged.

So I would thank them with the second in mind before I bring up my concerns about the first.

[ultraist]

14. So we should thank and glorify cops that engage in police brutality?

I don't think so. Just because someone is a cop doesn't mean that have carte blanche to be glorified regardless of their actions. Same goes for soldiers. Same goes for the President or anyone else for that matter.

[yurbud]

25. think in terms of winning them over, not shouting them down

[manic expression]

27. Go ahead, try to "win over" bigoted police

And by the way, just like the military, one or two beatings of blacks is not nearly half of the whole story. Blacks are gunned down by police for holding nothing but wallets, spatulas or even candy bars. The police in Cincinnati imposed literal martial law on the populace after their ilk killed a black person for NO reason. Why do the police stand idle when someone is being mugged by the police?

Why do you let the police beat down people and protests for no reason while citing the occasional arrest of a thug (actually, the thug would probably be the US in this case) as justification for the body which carries out such wrongs?

[yurbud]

30. my cop analogy only goes so far

For individuals in the military, their intent is to protect the country, they just don't get enough of the info to realize that some tiny plantation country in Central America or an oil country whose military we already destroyed 80% of a decade ago are no threat to us.

Even someone like Saddam wouldn't be stupid enough to lob a nuke at us because he knows it would be the last thing he would ever do.

Somehow, people old enough to remember have forgotten mutually assured destruction, except today, only the other side would be assured destruction.

[manic expression]

7. I completely agree

At no time besides WWII has the military won any measure of freedom (read up on how the revolution started because of taxes). Ironically enough, WWII was fought against countries that were guilty of the same crimes we are committing today (aggressive, unjustified invasions; disregard for human rights; suppression of free speech...need I go on?).

The US military is carrying out a most disgusting action, and I will never support that or the agent involved. To think that a war fought against the very ideals we now embrace justifies ANY action before or after is WRONG.

[Sandpiper]

11. Even our Revolutionary "Army"

Was largely a rag tag collection of citizen militias.

The British were the ones with the large professional military.

[BamaLefty]

8. I Agree

The troops (God bless 'em :() are NOT fighting for my freedom. Anyone who believes that is very dense. But many do of course...

[Paranoid_Portlander]

9. That was the #1 excuse for the Vietnam war.

"We're fighting for YOUR freedom." "We're fighting for Vietnam's freedom". Or simply "We're fighting for freedom". The important thing is that "freedom" is the warm and fuzzy feel-good word in this context, so we're not expected to get logical about it.

[ultraist]

12. That sounds like Fascism

PRO MILITARY
NATIONALISM
PROPAGANDA

Need I say more?

[followthemoney]

13. Sure, every time I find myself threatened by a cop for exercising

my freedom of speech outside of a free speech zone,the first thought that comes to mind is to call in a surgical strike from the good ole Army of the USA.

[Skidmore]

15. A caller on C-SPAN this morning stated that the "purpose of war was to

manufacture peace" and I was taken aback by that statement too.

[VOX]

20. Classically Orwellian! War = Peace...

When C-SPAN callers start spouting Orwell-speak, we're in trouble. :scared:

[Warpy]

16. I thank vets for volunteering to put their asses on the line

should it become absolutely necessary.

However, for the past 60 years, war hasn't kept us free.

It's kept us BROKE.

[VOX]

17. If sending conquering armies out into the world kept a nation free...

Then, by that reasoning, Nazi Germany should have been the freest country on the planet. Obviously, it was anything but free.

Without our essential and basic freedoms at home, as guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, all the soldiering in the world will not make this nation free.

On edit: My opinion in no way equals troop-bashing. On the contrary, I fully understand that they have a job to do, and I am grateful to them for putting their lives on the line. I want them all home, safely. And the sooner, the better.

[Sandpiper]

22. The very reason that the Founders didn't want a large standing military

Is because every country in world history that had a large, professional, military used it for aggression rather than defense.

[Runcible Spoon]

18. I hope I can agree without being accused of "troop bashing"

the only threat to our freedom is the Rovian Machine!

[havocmom]

19. Wars happen when diplomacy fails

Damned few are the ones where the fighting protects our freedoms. But it is human nature to need some higher purpose than the failure of political hacks to compensate people for the losses they suffer from war.

How does a parent deal with such a terrible loss? There are few who are able to accept that bad things happen because our leaders are not nice people. No one SHOULD accept that their kin die from malice instead of noble causes.

If the leaders are bad, they should be replaced by people WORTHY of the sacrifices the Armed Forces may be called upon to make. But too often, we make excuses and buy illusions instead of holding the real culprits to account. Not everyone is able to take the road less traveled.

OK, hit me with your best shots.

[oasis]

23. What's important is what the troops believe. They are told they are

fighting for "freedom", "democracy" or what ever noble cause Bush can pull out of his ass.

Soldiers are taught to believe that their duty is to their country.And rightly so.

Many realize later that they have been sold out by their leaders and,for them, the overall mission becomes a personal one; that of looking out for their comrades.

[beyurslf]

28. War is Peace.....

[Karenina]

29. SUPPORT THE TROOPS!!!!

FORCE your gub'mint to FLY THEM THE FUCK OUTTA IRAQ TODAY. They are only there to protect *corporate interests and will continue to fail miserably while having their vital parts blown off.

GET THEM OUTTA THERE!!!

[TrustingDog]

31. wars keep corporations free-er for profit.

and have the megaphone to convince it's all about honour and blah blah so surviving parents of KIDS have something to hang onto in peter pan land....

pathetic.

The only worthy war is one of true Defense - on your own soil or ones of your neighbours.

Buck Fush. and buck all this shit that has been happening for decades and decades, the secret wars, the quiet deaths of thousands and thousands around the world.

[Rex]

32. Why change a formula that has worked for 1000s of years?

As long as people are willing to kill each other, there will be a need for men and women who will risk life and limb to kill others. Pacifism has worked in the past, but in this case I don't think it will have any effect on the BFEE.