There must be a push to allow Faith and Liberalism to be compatible

[ck4829]

Why?

The RW is scared of us saying, "Hey! We like people of Faith!"

If we do that, the RW will not be allowed to run around and say the Left is just a bunch of Anti-Christian Communists with ties to terrorists who want to destroy America blah, blah, blah.

Look, I'm not saying we should all convert to a religion or anything. But, we should go support Interfaith groups, oppose Bigotry from any Religious body, and proclaim that we are the ones who are religious and spiritual not the ones who use it as a mask to hide their bigotry and/or corruption.

"Hillary Clinton suggested that Democrats go to church for a time to learn the language. Who is stupid now?"
- Paul Weyrich
http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=11184

The Traditional Values Coalition’s Lou Sheldon berates progressive voices of faith – such author Jim Wallis and the Clergy Leadership Network – as “sock puppets“ of the “militant atheist and one-world socialist George Soros.”
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=2129

Columnist David Limbaugh accuses Democrats of unfairly claiming the mantle of the “true Christians and decrying Republicans for trying to assert a monopoly on Christianity." Limbaugh continues: “The Democratic leadership should understand that it won't endear itself to many Christian voters by rewriting scripture, embracing relativism, facilitating a culture of death, endorsing homosexuality as a civil right, portraying government-coerced redistributions of other people's money as acts of compassion toward the poor and preaching class warfare notwithstanding the Commandment against ‘coveting.’"
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=6612

[bowens43]

1. People of faith have always been welcome.

It's the fundis who are the problem.

[ck4829]

3. Exactly. It's just that people actually believe that we are the ones...

who are doing the 'persecuting' and that we are the ones who use Faith as a mask.

[asjr]

4. While all we are doing is following the Constitution.

I am as Christian, but I certainly don't push it on anyone else.

[bryant69]

2. I really agree

I don't believe that anybody should change their religious beliefs (and Atheism is a belief about religion, as near as I can tell) for political gain. But those of us who are people of faith and liberals need to be talking about it.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Jamastiene]

5. Been there done that

They'll convert and brainwash YOU. If you can manage to do it without turning into a bigot, then more power to you. Me, personally, I have had enough. No thanks.

[Dhalgren]

6. I don't think any "liberal" has a problem with people of "faith"

(whatever that means). But very often "people of faith" (if I understand what you mean, here) are not very "liberal". I will agree that some religiously inclined people can be very liberal, but often that is not the case. This is because most religions are not terribly "liberal". If one of the tenets of your religion is that all other religions are wrong and that there is only "one way" to achieve heaven (or whatever), then it is hard to be very "liberal" on many of the issues that define modern, American liberalism. Just my take...

[davidinalameda]

11. no offense but what rock have you been living under

too many people on here as well in real life hear the words person of faith and automatically assume you're talking about a right wing religious conservative

and if they don't, they lump all people of faith into one big homogeneous group

even you write that "most religions are not terribly liberal"

you're just as guilty as others by lumping everyone together

it's called stereotyping

people don't bother to check out the individual churches themselves--there are a lot of "liberal" churches out there--they just don't get the press that the Falwells and the Robertsons get

there's groups like the Interfaith Alliance that are fighting the public perception that all people of faith are RW conservatives

[Dhalgren]

15. I wasn't trying to get into an argument, here.

But, unless you have some sort of bent definition, most religions are not "liberal". Most religions require adherents to live in a certain way and uphold certain "values", eschewing all others. That is not "liberal". Now, if you are saying that many people who adhere to one or another religion can be and are Democrats and Greens and what not, then yes, that is true. But the "problem" with religion is expressed in your "what rock have you been living under" remark. Everyone is so quick and vicious to "defend" their religions. I was not disparaging anyone's religion. I was just making the observation that "liberalism" as express in modern America is not very compatible with most religions, especially Judeo-Christian-Muslim ones. Some aspects of "liberalism" and the various "churches" mesh quite well, but others do not. Peace...

[Jamastiene]

18. I hope you can start

to get a voice then. I hear Jessie Jackson's name and I listen. I hear Falwell and I listen. The difference is that I come away from Falwell hating God for sending me those types of message. The moral of the story is that people like Falwell make people like me wish there was a contract to sign for a better chance in life. People like Jessie Jackson make me think there is some love to go along with the hate in the religious community.

[davidinalameda]

24. this is one time you should shoot the messenger

Falwell and his ilk twist the bible to their own ends

they're the ones who scream the loudest and unfortunately, they're the ones who people hear

[Jamastiene]

25. If only the ones

who have a more tolerant message than people like Falwell would speak up as loudly and as often, and use the Bible to do so, things would be a lot better for everyone. Those who use the Bible to spread hatred have been doing it far too long and with very little opposition or at least very little of that opposition getting through.

[Padraig18]

7. People of faith were vital to the progressive movement in this country.

From the abolition of slavery to the Underground Railroad to 'settlement houses' to the civil-rights movement of the 60s, people of faith were always there. What's more, we stil are, but the MSM only shows you the fundamentals RWers.

http://www.liberalslikechrist.org

[ultraist]

20. Good point! MLK Jr & Quakers were activists from the faith community

The liberal Episcopalian churches have also been involved in Peace movements as well as other churches.

Currently, there is a big faith based Peace movement that opposes Iraq.

[yvr girl]

22. I couldn't agree more

Many of you would consider my beliefs to be quite conservative, but I am also a liberal. I live my life a certain way, but I don't expect other people who don't share my beliefs to share my lifestyle.

I think love your neighbour like you love yourself is a liberal outlook.

[JerseygirlCT]

26. Quite right

and those RW types are a SMALL part of the religious people in the US. They're just a very, very loud part, with friends in high places. They're a dead-end street on the path of Christianity, and a small one at that.

They're an easy target for non-believers, b/c they're so loud and hateful. But it's a huge mistake to assume that all believers (of any religion) are in sync with them or their beliefs.

[madrchsod]

8. this is one of the people they are afraid of

she`s an educated Christian with a real doctoral degree from a real university. what really must scare them is that she writes about children , the family, and she uses Christ`s words to defend her position on what is wrong with the fundy ideas about raising children.if you check her website you will be quite surprised

http://www.jesusonthefamily.org/

[fishwax]

28. interesting site. thanks for the link (n/t)

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Padraig18]

10. Generalize much?

"...The Catholic Church and all of their child molesting bishops and Priests can take their hypocrite Asses to the far RW...."

:eyes:

[TWiley]

12. One problem is with the type of "faith" that is associated

conservatism. That type is simply incompatible with liberalism. I for one do not want to see our party assimilate into the values of the "Christian right" and become "republican light". There is a variety of fundamentalist which will never stop until you view the world as they do.

As a group, simply need to identify ourselves with "liberal faith". I have begun to support the "Interfaith Alliance" more because I believe their message is one of the most important ones. After all, Jesus was a liberal democrat, and this truth needs to be propagated.

I will continue to oppose the Christian bigots, Christian racists, and the Christian war mongers. I for one, will never embrace their values.

[jbnow]

13. We'll take anyone's votes

and God knows we could use...and have...people of Faith.

Spirit is a passion...faith can be great virtue.

Churches are another matter. Right wing "Christians" caught up in the Old testament God...who hates gays and shellfish eaters and orders armies to ravage villages and kill them all, men, women and children (except those they would like to keep for sex), who judges and punishes. That dude.

But I will never understand why they'd name their group after Christ and then totally ignore all the contradictions between the bush group and the teaching of Jesus..who never did mention gays and taught the opposite of everything this administration does.

It shouldn't be an issue because the true essence of Christianity IS socially liberal. "Christians" should look at these lies and policies and if they wonder what Jesus would do, be sure he would go into one of his Pharisee hypocrite angry speeches. Speak truth to power. The bush-like were the only types he ever condemned.

[blm]

14. Dennis Kucinich is one of the most faithful people in this country.

i'd welcome ANY of those denigrating Democrats of faith to try doing so in a DEBATE with Dennis Kucinich.

[GOPBasher]

16. There is a push for that, but it doesn't get the media coverage

that the religious right gets.

[fishwax]

27. media coverage is a huge problem

and representation in media discussions on issues of faith is almost nonexistant for progressive religious voices. That's where the battle has to be won if we're to turn the tide against the religious right. I don't believe that most of the Christians and other people of faith in this country are really in agreement with the views of Dobson, Robertson, et al, but those are the only voices of faith they typically see in the media. That creates the false dichotomy of supporting the pharisees or else hating religion.

[ultraist]

17. The Democratic Party needs to look to the Black community on this

The Black community has always had strong churches and been able to integrate their faith with the Democratic values.

I was watching the Black America Panel last week on CSPAN and was impressed with how openly they discussed faith (they also had Minister Lowry, Farakhan and other religious leaders on the panel).

They had no problem being open about their faith AND discussing political issues. I think the Black community understands that they even though they may have religious beliefs about certain issues, they still vote in a smart way that promotes their overall best interests. They understand what seperation of church and state and freedom of religion means. Whereas the white fundies, do not.

We cannot sacrifice our values of seperation of church and state but neither should we shut out people of faith.

If the Black community has been doing this for decades, it seems white people of faith can learn to as well.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. There already is. It's called the first amendment.

"Congress shall make no law regarding an establishment of religion or the free exercise thereof;.."

The religious right just can't take the "no" part.

[Tyler Durden]

21. Faith is INTENSELY Liberal.

Try believing in Social Change for going on 45 years. THAT is an act of FAITH.

What I get cheesed off about is when the THEO-CONS take on their "true cross" mantle WITHOUT ANYONE FROM THE MAINSTREAM CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS CALLING THEM ON IT.

Also, People have faith in ALLAH, KRSNA, BUDDHA, THEIR ANCESTORS, THE GODDESS...the "fundamentalists" DO NOT HAVE A MONOPOLY ON IT.

As to sponsoring interfaith groups, they already exist: they have just been marginalized by the ROY MOORE JERRY FALWELL PAT ROBERTSON BOB JONES CARDINAL MAIDA crowd, and in my not-so-humble opinion it is THEIR bust to start exerting some push against these pseudo-christians.

And I am not letting Nation of Islam off the hook: they just have been a little low profile lately.

[Lindacooks]

23. Jesus was a bleeding-heart liberal.

True Christians are liberal too.

[eridani]

29. Why privilege faith? Isn't ETHICS the most important thing?

Granted, plenty of people ground their ethics in various traditional faiths, and that's fine by me. What I want is people to be on my side ethically, never mind what kind of belief systems they have.