Dean's favorite song: Andrew Sullivan inferring anti-Semitic lyrics..

[SweetZombieJesus]

Or at least "wondering" if they are. What a moron.

http://andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archives/2003_09_07_dish_archive.html#106325373415214113

It's not, of course, but that didn't stop the idiot from frothing at the mouth about it. I've heard Israel in Bob Marley songs, and I didn't sit around wondering if it's anti-Semitic, because I'm not a spastic moron like Sully.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. Again we see another example of the reich wing.....

attacking anyone who dares to have a different point of view! These charges of Anti Semitism are on Mr. Sullivans back to be prooven!

[dean4america]

3. just a note.

I've read the translated lyrics to Jaspora, and I see nothing anti-semitic in them. Does anyone here agree with Sully's remarks?

[Paschall]

2. I'm sure the heretical Roman Catholic...

...would recognize anti-Semitism when he saw it. :eyes:

Thanks for the info, but I'm not going to approach the froth and link.

[reachout]

4. Sorry...

to go off-topic, but the LeMonde cartoon linked at the top of the page was very powerful and to the point about what Sept. 11 means elsewhere.

[arcane1]

11. indeed

http://a1692.g.akamai.net/f/1692/2042/1d/medias.lemonde.fr/medias/image_article/03091203_plantu+x1pl

[Cha]

12. I checked it out cause you mentioned it...but I didn't get it.

http://a1692.g.akamai.net/f/1692/2042/1d/medias.lemonde.fr/medias/image_article/03091203_plantu+x1pl.jpg

[StandWatie]

16. on september 11, 1973

Kissenger had elected Salvador Gossens Allende overthrown in a military coup and the resulting junta is now sitting trial for war crimes after they murdered an uncountable number of people.

[Cha]

57. Wow! That date in History!

There was also a Hurricane on the island of Kauai on Sept 11, 1992 that was in the $$billions of dollars, a .5 and devastated the island for many years. But nothing like the other 9/ll with loss of human lives!

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

[StandWatie]

13. I'm not sure if Andy realizes this

but 9/11 was also the aniversary of Kissinger's coup in Chile.

[SweetZombieJesus]

5. Well, the amusement factor is worth it

If only to see what ridiculous straw-grasping Sully's employing. Gee, I can't believe a self-loathing homosexual Repub apologist is doing smear work on behalf of Joe Lieberman. I'm totally and utterly shocked :eyes:

[denverbill]

6. The fact that Dean's wife is Jewish proves he's anti-Semitic.

Boy, what a dumb story.

[elfwitch]

9. No kidding...

What? He is so anti-jewish that he wants to keep one close, so when the time comes he can turn her in first?

What a load of crap!!

[tjdee]

7. I'm SO sure it's Dean's favorite song, too.

Wyclef Jean, Jaspora.
Okay.

:eyes:

But I'm fairly certain it's not anti-Semitic. Wyclef Jean is a pretty cool guy.

[SweetZombieJesus]

10. Yes, because middle aged white men can't POSSIBLY like a Wyclef song

Right back at you, sport :eyes:

[Capn Sunshine]

18. Especially ones that are proficient at blues guitar

...

[tjdee]

32. I didn't say he couldn't like it.

I just doubt that it's his FAVORITE song.

I don't like when people assume I should like a certain kind of music, but the way he said it... I dunno, I just don't believe it.

[Cha]

41. And I do believe it!

I read that it was on the blog.. that it was a personal favorite of Dean's. And, heck, I just believed it anyway!

Just like I took all the other candidates choices of their songs at face value!

[truthseeker1]

42. I agree tjdee NT

[salin]

54. that doesn't surprise me

you tend to often express derision about anything Dean related. Have to wonder if you would have had this reaction regardless of his answer? Sometimes our perspectives shade how we read things.

[tjdee]

67. I can agree with that.

You have a point, my perception probably does have a lot to do with why I didn't believe it.

[salin]

83. I know that we can all fall prey to doing this

we are only human.

[Cha]

14. Like you possibly know what is going on in Dean's life or mind.

Jeez!

[catpower2000]

19. AFAIK, Dean SAID it was his fave song during the debate...

You don't think they just randomly chose a Wyclef song, do you? LOL

Cat

[Tinoire]

29. It's not

doesn't even say one damn word about Jews or the land of Israel but hell, why spoil all the fun?

[sham]

33. a dear friend of my husband's

is a 40 year old white guy whose favorite artist is Wyclef Jean. why is that so far-fetched?

[tjdee]

37. I should have been clearer.

I just don't believe that it's Howard Dean's favorite song.

I'm not making an assumption about middle aged white guys, I'm making an assumption about Governor Howard Dean.

Yes yes, assumptions make an ass out of you and me, blah blah blah.

[SweetZombieJesus]

8. Oh Christ, now he's saying it's inciting violence

The only thing inciting violence is Sully's stupidity, in that I'd like to smack him for being such a moron.

[bunk76]

15. Ya know....

sometimes I actually feel pity for this poor bastard.I mean to walk the earth and not have a friggin clue.It must be hard to live in that skin and have to face each day,knowing in your own heart,you dont have a clue.

[GainesT1958]

17. And so the media whores' "Wrecking Ball" operation begins on Dr. Dean...

Wonder what they'd find on an album recording of the song if they played it BACKWARDS? (Sorry, Dean fans; didn't mean to give them any ideas!) :eyes:

B-)

[Capn Sunshine]

20. Shit

you're onto us.
AROPSAJ

[Cocoa]

21. he can't possibly be that stupid

can he?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cocoa]

24. scroll down...

I'm sure Joe Lieberman would love to find out what "Yo pa respekte Izrayèl" might mean.

[Susang]

30. Dude, that was pretty rude

Why so much venom in support of Andrew Sullivan?

[Forkboy]

82. Go read Jim's posts in I/P

and you'll see he's just being consistant :)

[salin]

55. yep jump to crazy sulllies defense

he would never use dirty inneuendo... not Sullie... (except that in a careful read... Sullie does appear to do just that)

[SweetZombieJesus]

56. You know, I'd alert you, but it's just too much fun to read this post

Sully is INFERRING anti-Semitism. It's as clear as day, and it's probably why Eschaton picked up on it as well.

Look up "INFERRING" in a dictionary, Einstein. Then apologize to me for being a presumptous dickhead.

See, I can name call too ;-)

[DemLikr]

75. Oh, that is too sweet., Zombie!

I too assumed you meant inferring as "implying"...so many people transpose the two these days.

Glad to see you nail your above detractor. What a dick.

[SweetZombieJesus]

78. There are many names you could call me....

Dickhead, asshole, twat, crybaby, etc.

But I ain't a liar, and I won't stand for being called one.

[SweetZombieJesus]

65. Still waiting for that apology, Captain Jump-To-Conclusions

Or am I still a "goddamn liar"?

[StandWatie]

71. err..

That dude ain't the sharpest tool in the shed, he's funny as hell unintentionally sometimes but I wouldn't worry much about it.

[SweetZombieJesus]

73. Maybe so, but still, I don't appreciate being called a liar

And I expect an apology, and if I don't get one, I'm gonna alert the HELL out of this post ;-)

[truthseeker1]

23. You have to wonder about Dean's choice though....

I doubt there's anything anti-semitic about the song, but it still made me raise an eyebrow when Dean named a Wyclef song. His motive with such a selection is certainly questionable. Sorry, Dean just doesn't look like he spends his free moments jamming to hip hop ;-)

[Cha]

26. Dean plays music and you have to know the lyrics which were

printed the night the choice came out...

So you really can't say what someone's favorite song is without knowing that person and I doubt if you do.

[truthseeker1]

38. Well, gee, you got me there

You're right. I don't know Dean and I don't have any idea of what kind of music he likes, but the way he said it - the way it came out, it seemed calculated and it made me doubt it. Not because I don't think a middle aged white guy could possibly like hip hop music or ANY kind of music for that matter. It was the impression it made on me (a registered voter!). Everything a presidential candidate says is going to be questioned this way and that by the press, the candidate's opponents and the voters, and his answer didn't really seem genuine. (Oh, and by the way, I'm a Dean supporter.)

[Cha]

43. Well what if it is his favorite song? Then what would you have

to say about the way you interpreted it ..."the way it came out"?

[truthseeker1]

47. That perhaps he needs to be more convincing??

It's my OPINION that his song choice was questionable and I'm not alone here. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But impressions are impressions. And as a voter, I'm going to be watching Dean with a bit more skepticism.

[Cha]

51. You do that and please research and find out if it is his "favorite

song" or not.

[truthseeker1]

53. That perhaps he needs to be more convincing??

It's my OPINION that his song choice was questionable, based on my IMPRESSION that he was basically repeating what he and his staff decided would send a particular message to a particular crowd. And I'm not alone here. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But impressions are impressions. And as a voter, I'm going to be watching Dean with a bit more skepticism.

(Personally, I would have chosen "In a World Gone Mad" by the Beastie Boys)

Sorry about the double-post!

[deutsey]

27. I'm sure the same could be said about me and Public Enemy

I'm white, late 30s, balding, have three kids, married, have a mortgage, professional job, blah blah blah.

But I've been known to blast Fight the Power from time to time.

And PS: I don't get into any PE that's anti-Semitic.

[arcane1]

45. his 'motive'...? WTF?

did the other 8 candidates have "motives" for choosing their favorite song? Why only Dean?

:shrug:

[cprise]

25. Sullivan is a troll.

Don't feed him.

[rucky]

28. Here are the lyrics...translated

twak amongst yourselves:

JASPORA

by Wyclef Jean

Ever since I was little, I left Haiti
There's some that went to Brooklyn there's some that went to Miami
Why do Jamaicans always say they are Jamaicans,
But Haitians are afraid to say they are Haitians?
Why? Are you scared to say your name is Samuel?
Why? Are you scared to say you're with Israel?
Why? Every night you are sleeping with Jezebel!
You're scared to say Haitian girls are beautiful!
Beautiful girls are beautiful...


I respect your name just like I respect the angel Gabriel
Here, Diaspora men want to take you to hotels,
Start talking English, turning to playboy channel
They do not respect Israel.


Diaspora do not respect Diaspora
If you are a Diaspora I am going to give you to sharks
Diaspora do not respect Diaspora
If you are a Diaspora tonight we're going to disarm you

Diaspora ha ha o, put your hands up!
I am going to take them and throw them in prison
I will make them know who is Toussaint
I will make them know who is Dessalines
After, we will let them go and send them back to Brooklyn
So he could go to his mother who is cooking in the kitchen
His mom looked at him and said "Man, you've changed"
She said I changed because I am Haitian
They taught me a lesson, they put me in prison.


I see Diaspora women and Diaspora men
There are people who are not going to make it because they will sleep with the fishes
They lost their knowledge just like a priest without religion

Diaspora do not respect Diaspora
If you are a Diaspora I am going to give you to sharks
Diaspora do not respect Diaspora
If you are a Diaspora tonight were going to disarm you

Port-au-Prince do not respect Diaspora again
Men Flatbush do not respect Diaspora
Men Canada do not respect Diaspora
Men Miami do not respect Diaspora


Pa Kayos do not respect diaspora
Papa Djoume do not respect Diaspora
Refugees do not respect Diaspora
Men Florida do not respect Diaspora
Wrong things done are going to finish worse
If you disrespect native-born
Done wrong things are going to finish worse
Disrespect Haitians you will get hit...

[Cha]

34. Is this suppose to be more reggae or not? I had read on DU

the night of the song choices that this was considered "reggae".

[Susang]

36. Amazing wordplay in that song

And in no way anti-semetic. Jean is using a couple of the definitions of Diaspora to make his point. A very interesting piece of writing. Now I'll have to go dig out my cd and listen to the song again.

[ieoeja]

39. So basicaly Wyclef is singing ...

... Haitians who have scattered around the world have as much reason to be proud of their Haitian heritage as any other travellers.

Sully took a bit of a jump there. I will admit that I also thought it was about the Jews with the various biblical names and the frequent reference to Diaspora, a word we typically associate with the Jews. But it turns out he was using the word as just that: a word which accurately describes the plight of so many Haitians today.

[Tinoire]

64. Israel is a common girl's name among the Haitian working class

Israel is a common girl's name among the Haitian working class, just like Jezebel :)

It has nothing to do with the country...

[DemBones DemBones]

74. I went to undergrad school with a Cuban guy named Israel.

I didn't reaize it was used as a girl's name as well. Jesus is, of course, a common name for men in Spanish-speaking countries. It's funny how Anglo-Americans would never name kids Israel, Jezebel, Jesus, when so many common names are also Biblical names.

[SweetZombieJesus]

76. There's a lot of Israel stuff in reggae songs

Like I said, a lot of Bob Marley songs have terms like "Zion" and there was a prominent reggae group called "The Israelites". Sully's just showing his whitebred ignorance of reggae on this one. I mean, I've only got one Bob Marley album and one Jimmy Cliff album, and I knew this.

[StandWatie]

77. rastafarians believe they are the true decendents of Abraham

[SweetZombieJesus]

79. Is that what it is?

See, I don't know anything about Rastafarianism, so I never knew exactly what those references meant, but I could at least tell you they weren't anti-Semitic.

[onecitizen]

31. Why would anyone run..........

for political office, much less for President?

[Cha]

35. Hopefully cause they have a fire in their belly that they can

really help!

[TheYellowDog]

40. The lyrics are not anti-semitic

, but I doubt Dean has even listened to Wyclef Jean. I see it as him trying to connect with younger voters, but as a younger voter, I'm not impressed at all.

[MercutioATC]

46. Honestly, why wouldn't somebody who plays blues guitar listen

to Wyclef Jean?

I'm a 35-year-old white air traffic controller who lives in an upscale mostly-white community and some of my favorite music is sung by Nina Simone. What do a black female vocalist from another era and I have in common?

I can see people saying "That's a different choice." I don't understand the doubt, though. If Dean wanted to "connect with younger voters", why an artist as relatively obscure as Wyclef Jean?

[rucky]

58. Now if he said "Sk8r Boi"...

my radar would've gone up.

[SweetZombieJesus]

59. If he'd said Sk8r Boi, I'd be switching to Clark

Yes, I hate Avril Lavigne THAT MUCH.

[MercutioATC]

80. hehehe...you illustrated my point very well

.

[OKNancy]

48. Hey he has a teenage son

I don't think it's odd at all that he might be familar with Jean.
I have a ninteen year old and something is always playing around here.

[Cha]

49. You're Wrong! young voter! It was on the blog that this was a

personal favorite of Dean's! Dean plays music so I can bet he's listened to all kinds of Music!

Dean said his favorite song and at first he was being criticized for naming an obscure Wyclef Jean song and now he's being accused of it not being really his favorite.

Some here just want to find any little thing to bitch about.

[TheYellowDog]

50. It's called POLITICS,

zidzi, and you of anyone should not be complaining about someone bitching about a minor thing.

[Cha]

52. Oh and why is that yellow dog?

hmm? Why shouldn't I be complaining about the "bitching"?

[TheYellowDog]

85. I would tell you why

but I'm afraid that my post would get deleted.

[truthseeker1]

44. This is OT but....

At least Dean's choice wasn't as telling as Lieberman's: "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow" - yeah, Lieberman, keep singing that song - you're just going to have to settle for *thinking* about tomorrow because it ain't never gonna come for you! Not with Gore, and not in 2004!

[Cha]

61. And please tell what was "telling" about Dean's choice?

[truthseeker1]

81. God would you get OFF of it zidzi

see post #40 and get a clue.
If you take everything the candidates say at face value, then you have lot to fucking learn about politics!

[Cha]

84. I never said I didn't "have a lot to learn about politics"....you seem

to be the one that knows it all.

[DemBones DemBones]

60. I'm not pro-Dean but Sullivan is an idiot, and really reaching here

for a story.

"POSEUR ALERT: "One you've never heard of. 'Jaspora' by Wyclef Jean." - Howard Dean, when asked what his favorite song was. Here are the lyrics, from the lead singer/rapper for the Fugees. Is this some sort of Jamaican slang? Can someone translate for me? It could be really interesting. I'm sure Joe Lieberman would love to find out what "Yo pa respekte Izrayèl" might mean."

Nobody can prove that Dean doesn't like this song. To say he was being a poseur, trying to appeal to the young, etc., is just speculation. My only complaint would be that Dean was being a bit arrogant to say "One you've never heard of." Sullivan, OTOH, should know that Israel can be a name for a person or a country.

It's stupid for adults to pretend they're totally up on what teenagers are listening to BUT most adults do continue listening to new music throughout life. Especially if they also sing or play an instrument, and Dean plays guitar.

Then Sullivan gets a translation and says:

"Reads like a screed against assimilating Haitian immigrants to me; and theatens violence against those who assimilate a little too thoroughly. This is Howard Dean's favorite song?"

This is stupid because it assumes that Dean knows what the song says in translation, agrees that it supports violence against assimilated Haitian immigrants, and supports such violence. As I said, I'm not pro-Dean but this is pretty far-fetched. People can like music for the sounds alone, ignoring any message to it. Case in point: "I Shot the Sheriff" is a great song and I 've always liked it a lot. Does that mean I advocate shooting law-enforcement officers? Don't be ridiculous!

Sullivan is just a RW idiot. Nothing to see here but an idiot making a fool of himself.

[SweetZombieJesus]

62. Saying "one you've never heard of" was clearly a joke

He was at a debate sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus. Wyclef Jean is a prominent black artist. Do the math.

Otherwise, glad to see you agree with me on this one.

[DemBones DemBones]

69. I didn't see the debate and didn't realize it was sponsored by the

CBC. That explains Dean's ill-considered remark about being "the only" white candidate to talk about race to white audiences. And maybe he *was* trying to curry favor with a black audience by naming Wyclef Jean. But so what if he was? Being asked your favorite song is a free pass kind of question. I don't assume that the songs named by anyone were necessarily their favorite songs of all time, only songs that they like, and all the analysis of their choices is pretty silly.

Dean plays guitar, so he probably does appreciate black artists. I've always loved blues and R & B, and have seen more black artists in concert than white ones, although I'm white. I don't even play guitar but my love for blues has influenced my guitarist husband, guitarist daughter, and guitarist brother (who's been the only white guy in a number of jazz and blues groups.)

Music is a real interrracial bridge. And Sullivan's an idiot so don't sweat what he says.

[SweetZombieJesus]

72. I'm not sweating it at all

It's not like anyone who reads Sully and takes him seriously is going to be voting for the Dem candidate anyway. It just amuses the piss out of me the way he's so baselessly reaching for something, anything, to hit Dean with.

[Cocoa]

68. just the fact that he adjusted his objection

it's hilariously transparent that he is determined to find SOMETHING wrong with that song. And even if there's nothing wrong with the song, Dean is lying when he says he likes it.

[Evil_Dewers]

63. As a liberal...

I hate to say this but God has punished Andrew Sullivan with AIDS--not because he's a homosexual--but because he's an asshole. :)

[Enraged American]

70. Does he really have AIDS?

and is he a homosexual? Who is he anyway? A Shrubbite?

[Free_Thinker]

66. Sullivan NEO-CON

I think he is the first HIV-Positive gay man to be adored by the Freakers at Freak Republic.

[Eloriel]

86. Has anyone pointed out yet that Dean's wife is Jewish?

Dr. Judith Steinberg.

His children are being raised Jewish.

Seems a little unlikely to me that Dr. Dean is anti-Semitic.

Eloriel