What have we accomplished in the last two years?

[Dancing_Dave]

At least I think the more intelligent people have become aware that the simplistic solution to the crime of 9/11 was not quite right, and the price of this mistake has been high. Our Government didn't carefully indentify and gather enough information against criminals responsible to stand up in authentic, open constitutional trials -- so our government resorted to the alltogether unconsititutional and un-american farce of closed military "tribunals". Our Constitution is being scrapped in the name of "National Security", but you know it's all a scam because their making people feel more insecure all the time! This "war on terrorism" involving "pre-emptive strikes" with whatever sci-fi-horror technology Rumsfeld can get his hands on is terrorizing people more than anything since days of Mussolini and Hitler! God only knows what will be the long-term health effects of weapons Rumsfeld and co. have tested in Afghanistan, Iraq, and New York City.


It was all wrong. Living in lies, denial, media myths and political cover-ups has not taken us where any of us want to be. We have paid a very high price for stupid immature attitudes, and the price in lives and devastation will only increase as time goes by. Those of us who can now identify with Jimmy Breslin's timely manifesto from New York City against the cover-up, should be able to do a bit better. We couldn't possibly do any worse!

THE AIR IS THICK WITH LIES
by Jimmy Breslin
I sit here in New York and I don't believe one single solitary word of what the government says. Can you believe anything Bush says? Only if you're a rank sucker. Then you put that Rumsfeld on and he grimaces and tells you the first thing he thinks of, and here is Powell, who I thought would be our first black national candidate and he's as bad as the rest of them....


....The attack on the destroyers never happened. McNamara lied. And the lie grew, and anybody who took the time to build evidence of this was attacked. "This is a just war," Johnson said.

The war blew up 58,000 of our young.

And now we have this administration welding their lies together on two matters: the air you breathe and the war they insist is good for us. We've just dealt with 40 years of lying and death. It is getting worse. "We're winning in Iraq," your poor president says.

Copyright © 2003, Newsday, Inc.

read more at http://911pi.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=5396090821&f=1316022231&m=419601453&r=791601653#791601653

[opihimoimoi]

1. We have accomplished many things, to wit:

1. Inform each other of concepts and thoughts. Our Humble Opinions

if I may.

2. Be a source of the latest news.............

3. Be a source of Links and sites for more info

4. Be a source of chat friends

5. Be in a place where a few know your name.

6. we made a place to cry, laugh, and be suprised.


And a few more I would guess.

[Dancing_Dave]

4. Cool about DU...but the rest of the world isn't going so nicely

Hey man, I hear where your coming from about DU, but I didn't even know about DU until I heard there was a great discussion about the PNAC neo-fascist neo-con agenda goin' on hear a few months ago. The "we" here is a needed moment of self-criticism for American society, which over the last two years took a dark turn which didn't bring any of us where we want to be...except for a few of the Presidents rich corrupt friends! We obviously need to ground ourselves in more truth and find a better direction, or our world will continue to get more dark, dangerous, deceptive, and insecure for us all. :think:

[Stephanie]

5. It's bubbling up

You'll hear it here first, then in a year or two you'll hear it on mainstream news. It's happening. Don't waver. Kristen Breitweiser on cable tonight is a breakthrough. The Meacher article is another. Press on.

[laura888]

8. Stephanie's right

Based on discussions here and listening to Pacifica radio, I know that there's growing outrage, and people are not being silent.

And there are trickles of this outrage in the mainstream media.

I write letters to the media and my congress members constantly. I'm a bit pest.

[dudeness]

2. Dave ..I posted this earlier..MHO of the last 2 years

two years into the "war on terror" a war bush says could last a generation..perhaps it is time to reflect on the current state of play..starting with afghanistan, a country once the focus of attention has been largely forgotten..however, with the influx of Islamic fighters re-entering the country (mainly from pakistan) this country is once again far from secure and attacks on coalition troops are occurring on a daily basis..opium poppy production has begun once again with the resultant product sure to reach the west in the near future..and aside from a puppet government installed in Kabul the country is in a lawless state..not what we were promised two years ago I am afraid.
Iraq the problems only grow larger for the coalition of the willing..recently a horrendous milestone was achieved ..more troops killed since the victory was declared by bush than during the "official" war..Iraqis still have no access to basic services in a large parts of the country..but perhaps the most disturbing development has been the coming together of the secular and fundamentalist Islamists against a common enemy (the US)...this concept was unheard of until recently , but has been made possible by an ill conceived and reckless invasion..where as once the west could count on different factions of Islamists opposing each other the reverse is now true..bush has continually attempted to make connections between saddam and OBL..he has now made this happen..Jihadists from all over the ME will continue to pour over the Iraqi borders.
The road map to peace in the I/P conflict is tatters with the two protagonists closer to all out war than in recent memory..atrocities continue on a daily basis from both sides..bush seems to be unwilling or unable to sort out this mess..once again not what we were told..

I am no expert in ME affairs , but from a laymans point of view , the world is in a more perilous state than two years ago and bush is giving me no reason to think it will improve..

www.maketradefair.org "Those who lynch or pull the trigger, act in the name of the silent". M L King

[Dancing_Dave]

3. Right on.

Everybody is gonna have to face up to this sooner or later...but sooner would be a whole lot better than later! :think:

[opihimoimoi]

6. These Pub Guys are mean and Nasty. The Pesky Pubs pound on us for:

wanting a better way, pointing out the deception, distortion, etc.

The Pubs call us UnAmerican, Traitors, Liberals, etc.

Come, we go rescue Sanity and Reason

[nolabels]

10. I think General Custer had a better grasp at the ambush that ........

awaited him. A lot military learned from Viet Nam, but chickenhawks have bird brains. Sticking their heads in the sand after bad things happen seems to be they are operating on things today.

Not only are these political whores leading a lot of people to an unnecessary killing field, they are have brainwashed their selves to what they have done and seem to be amiss to figuring out what's happening. Whoa to ones that would follow these fools in sticking their head in the sand

http://www.nationinstitute.org/tomdispatch/index.mhtml?pid=938
The Scourge of Militarism
Rome and America
By Chalmers Johnson

The collapse of the Roman republic in 27 BC has significance today for the United States, which took many of its key political principles from its ancient predecessor. Separation of powers, checks and balances, government in accordance with constitutional law, a toleration of slavery, fixed terms in office, all these ideas were influenced by Roman precedents. John Adams and his son John Quincy Adams often read the great Roman political philosopher Cicero and spoke of him as an inspiration to them. Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay, authors of the Federalist Papers, writing in favor of ratification of the Constitution signed their articles with the name Publius Valerius Publicola, the first consul of the Roman republic.

The Roman republic, however, failed to adjust to the unintended consequences of its imperialism, leading to a drastic alteration in its form of government. The militarism that inescapably accompanied Rome's imperial projects slowly undermined its constitution as well as the very considerable political and human rights its citizens enjoyed. The American republic, of course, has not yet collapsed; it is just under considerable strain as the imperial presidency -- and its supporting military legions -- undermine Congress and the courts. However, the Roman outcome -- turning over power to an autocracy backed by military force and welcomed by ordinary citizens because it seemed to bring stability -- suggests what might happen in the years after Bush and his neoconservatives are thrown out of office.

Obviously, there is nothing deterministic about this progression, and many prominent Romans, notably Brutus and Cicero, paid with their lives trying to head it off. But there is something utterly logical about it. Republican checks and balances are simply incompatible with the maintenance of a large empire and a huge standing army. Democratic nations sometimes acquire empires, which they are reluctant to give up because they are a source of wealth and national pride, but as a result their domestic liberties are thereby put at risk.

These not-particularly-original comparisons are inspired by the current situation of the United States, with its empire of well over 725 military bases located in other people's countries; its huge and expensive military establishment demanding ever more pay and ever larger appropriations from a supine and manipulated legislature; unsolved anthrax attacks on senators and newsmen (much like Rome's perennial assassinations); Congress's gutting of the Bill of Rights through the panicky passage of the Patriot Act -- by votes of 76-1 in the Senate and 337 to 79 in the House; and numerous signs that the public is indifferent to what it is about to lose. Many current aspects of our American government suggest a Roman-like fatigue with republican proprieties. After Congress voted in October 2002 to give the president unrestricted power to use any means, including military force and nuclear weapons, in a preventive strike against Iraq whenever he -- and he alone -- deemed it "appropriate," it would be hard to argue that the constitution of 1787 was still the supreme law of the land.
(snip)

[nolabels]

7. Accomplishment is sometimes over rated

knowing why, who, when, etc.......should be placed in the forefront before one proceeds into action. I have learned so much from hanging around this website that I wouldn't know how to stop looking anymore. The spin-offs and offshoots as it relates to all this deception is many times way more mesmerizing than any novel or movie. One could write a library of novels on just a few nuances of this entrenched thing

I heard about this little ditty last night

http://www.zaratustra.it/secretsgladio.htm
GLADIO: THE SECRET U.S. WAR TO SUBVERT ITALIAN DEMOCRACY
by Arthur E. Rowse
(snip)

Provocateurs on the Right

In 1968, the Americans started formal commando training for the gladiators at the clandestine Sardinian NATO base.

Within a few years, 4,000 graduates had been placed in strategic posts. At least 139 arms caches, including some at

carabinieri barracks, were at their disposal. *29 To induce young men to join such a risky venture, the CIA paid high

salaries and promised that if they were killed, their children would be educated at U.S. expense. *30



Tensions began to reach critical mass that same year. While dissidents took to the streets all over the world, in Italy,

takeovers of universities and strikes for higher wages and pensions were overshadowed by a series of bloody political

crimes. The number of terrorist acts reached 147 in 1968, rising to 398 the next year, and to an incredible peak of 2,498

in 1978 before tapering off, largely because of a new law encouraging informers ( penitenti ). *31 Until 1974, the

indiscriminate bombers of the right constituted the main force behind political violence.



The first major explosion occurred in 1969 in Milan's Piazza Fontana; it killed 18 people and injured 90. In this and

numerous other massacres, anarchists proved handy scapegoats for fascist provocateurs seeking to blame the left.

Responding to a phone tip after the Milan massacre, police arrested 150 alleged anarchists and even put some on trial.

But two years later, new evidence led to the indictment of several neofascists and SID officers. Three innocent

anarchists were convicted, but later absolved, while those responsible for the attack emerged unpunished by Italian

justice. *32



Conclusive Gladio links to political violence were found after a plane exploded in flight near Venice in November 1973.

Venetian judge Carlo Mastelloni determined that the Argo-16 aircraft was used to shuttle trainees and munitions

between the U.S. base in Sardinia and Gladio sites in northeast Italy.33 The apogee of right-wing terror came in 1974

with two massacres. One, a bombing at an antifascist rally in Brescia, killed eight and injured 102. The other was an

explosion on the Italicus train near Bologna, killing 12 and wounding 105. At this point, President Giovanni Leone, with

little exaggeration, summed up the situation: With 10,000 armed civilians running around, as usual, I'm president of

shit. *34
(snip)

Quite a story when you stack it up with what they seem to be doing in the USA

[Kamika]

9. well we deposited two countrys regimes

killed alot of muslims.
got alot of americans killed
Gave alot of jobs to india
screwed the constitution over

and made every single country in the world hate us


what else?