The BFEE needs YOUR help. Stop Kerry for them.

[blm]

They can help you in promoting Nixon era smears, like, "Kerry is a phony." The BFEE does have enough of its own operatives to keep the smears on Kerry going, but they are thrilled to get new recruits.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml

>>>>>>
The White House feared him like no other protester.

Colson, in a secret memo, revealed he had a mission to target Kerry: "Destroy the young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph Nader."

The effort by Nixon and his aides to undermine Kerry went much deeper than even Kerry realized. Yet it is this chapter in his life, as much as any other, that helped turn Kerry into a national political figure. By targeting Kerry, the Nixon White House boosted his stature in ways that still are having an impact.

But at the same time, many of the issues that Nixon and his aides raised more than 30 years ago about Kerry still remain. Echoes of Colson's words can still be heard in Washington: "He's politically ambitious and just looking for an issue, a phony."

Yet even Nixon described Kerry as an articulate and impressive spokesman. The Nixon White House began an investigation of Kerry. Who was he, the Nixonites wanted to know. What was his real motivation? And how could they stop him?
>>>>>

[E_Zapata]

1. Kerry should roll out some clips from that era

I had no idea -

[blm]

4. They were found on the Nixon tapes.

That had to be wierd to hear your name on those tapes. Bush Sr. was a henchman for Nixon, too. This has been going on for over 30 years.

[Octafish]

16. Here's one you might like...

A campaign commercial that documents photographically a remarkable person undergoing a remarkable transformation:

http://www.johnkerry.com/video/couragefinal2.mov

BTW: My main interest in supporting Kerry is he will kick the BFEE right out of Washington. They've been open for business there since November 22, 1963. And for John Kerry, like for me, the thing is personal:



Kerry, left, sails with President John F. Kennedy aboard
the 62-foot Coast Guard yawl Manitou in Narragansett Bay
on Aug. 26, 1962.

[Eloriel]

25. You're dreaming, Octafish

He's given absolutely no indication he'd do ANYthing about BFEE. In fact, he's the one who said that Bush is a good guy trying to do good things. Remember?

Yeah, he once upon a time did an investigation -- one that never went that far, near as I can tell 'cause the Bush Crime Family are stronger than ever -- so all you've got to go on with your speculation is some VERY old news, and it's not trending in your direction.

Eloriel

[Octafish]

51. Interesting choice of words.

While out of context, the statement you selected does show how far — and how carefully — John Kerry has come. And he’s had to do so almost alone.

The quote you used is from Kerry’s Meet the Press appearance. Turd Russert was trying to get Kerry to admit to saying something true about Bushler from a recently published magazine interview. Here’s the context of the quote:

MR. RUSSERT: Let me turn to the man you’d like to unseat if you become the Democratic nominee, and that’s George Bush. You’d spoke to Vogue magazine in March, and said this. “Kerry is unguarded in his comments about the man whose job he is currently after. He says his colleagues are appalled at the president’s ‘lack of knowledge’... And...he says, ‘They have managed him the same way they managed Ronald Reagan. They send him out to the press for one event a day, they put him in a brown jacket and jeans and get him to move some hay or drive a truck, and all of a sudden he’s the Marlboro Man. I know this guy. He was two years behind me at Yale, and I knew him, and he’s still the same guy.’”

What does that mean?

SEN. KERRY: I believe that President Bush is a very likable fellow, and I respect—I think he’s a good man who wants to do good things.

MR. RUSSERT: Does he lack knowledge, as you say?

SEN. KERRY: I disagree with the president’s approach to almost everything he’s doing—almost everything. And you look at America and the choices we face today, Tim. On the budget, he’s favoring the wealthy in America at the expense of the middle class. He has ignored the plight of job loss in America. He has gone backwards on the environment, backwards on cities and urban—look, we’ve given a tax cut to people while states are being forced to raise taxes and cut services. He’s gone backwards in the international community. He is not making us safer in the world. He has ignored the problems of North Korea to the point that they’re a crisis. We should be freezing right where we are with North Korea today. We should be dealing with Russia and the problem of loose nuclear materials more effectively. We should be leading the world on global warming.

CONTINUED…

http://www.msnbc.com/news/960385.asp

Eloriel, I agree with everything Kerry said in the magazine. Bush is a stooge who can barely put two words together without repeating "hisself."

So, while context is everything in discourse, Kerry can’t come out and say that Bush is a crook. That could start a real civil war.

Similarly to Russert, eloriel, you want to create a false impression using Kerry’s own words. That’s said. For surely you, of all people, know just how dangerous it is to fly solo in a BFEE world. And yet you continue to make out that JK is BFEE?

Only as President, can a person wield sufficient power to oust the bastards of the BFEE. That’s what Robert Kennedy said when he told confidants only as president could he find who killed his brother. BTW: RFK is the political idol of John Kerry.

BTW: Kerry uncovered the BCCI scandal and how it tied to CIA and Iran-Contra drug running. The corruption went from the White House to the Congress to the State Department and to every industrialized and oil-rich nation in the world.

Sounds pretty familiar to me. It should (still) sound that way to you.

Need background? Want links?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=273176

Before DU, people used flyers to manipulate opinion and to draw interesting people out into the open.



“D’ya like the new flyers, Mr. Bannister?”

[Terwilliger]

2. I think the most important part of this story

is how much he was compared to Nader

RIGHT?!? RIGHT?!?! HUH?!??!

[blm]

21. That's why I don't knock Nader around too much.

I don't like some of what he said and the results of 2000, but, I will never criticize the work of Public Citizen and his part in that.

I also think he will not attack Kerry if he is the nominee. They worked in some serious trenches together.

[molly]

3. I think some of them are alive and well and posting on DU

:crazy:

[clar]

6. I think

some of Kerry's supporters here at DU (and if the shoe fits....) do a stellar job of alienating others. Of course, this is also true of Dean, Edwards and Kucinich supporters.

[blm]

7. Who uses lies and smears to do so?

My history of posts are an open book, and i have never posted smears or anything OUT of the political arena about Dean. I use his OWN words and his OWN actions on political matters.

[Wonk]

10. Own words and own actions, re: Kerry (Not a smear, just the facts)

Action: Joined Skull & Bones in 1966
Public comments about Skull & Bones (and I quote) "                                     " - John Forbes Kerry (obeying his oath to S&B)
"John Kerry has absolutely nothing to say on that subject. Sorry,'' said Kerry spokeswoman Kelley Benander. (Boston Herald, May 15 2003)

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/archive_skull_and_bones.html

[blm]

11. On a POLITICAL matter.

.

[Andy_Stephenson]

33. Just recently he said

"it is secret"

On meet the Press.

What is the big secret is what I want to know.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Octafish]

58. Got a link?

Everydeanie who's "Anydeanie" pulls out the "blm is a Dean basher" slam at every opportunity. You, who I once thought was interested in the subject of getting the BFEE out of Dodge, stated to blm above: "Your history of posts are RIDDLED with lies, distortions, mischaracterizations, etc. etc., etc., etc., etc. In fact, that's literally all you've got."

Respectfully, I disagree. In fact, I ask YOU to show ME. Where is the proof against blm? It doesn't exist — that is, except in the imagination of blm's detractors.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AWD]

67. Hiw own words, huh??

Find me a link when he says "What do I do, Gary?"

You even used quotations, as if Dean said it himself...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=38220#38235

Face it...you're a basher who doesn't even have the guts to admit it.

[DemBones DemBones]

76. Here you go -- posted in another thread today.

>>>>>>>>
While resisting a request to handicap the remaining contenders for the White House, the former Colorado senator offered these observations about some still in the field:
>>>
Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont, lacks crucial defense or foreign policy experience.
Joe Lieberman, U.S. senator and former vice presidential candidate, is making a futile appeal to the "amorphous middle" by parroting Bush policies.
>>>>>
Dean, the former Vermont governor, is so inexperienced on defense and foreign relations that before his first trip to Israel in January, he called Hart and said, "Gary, what do I do?" Hart said.
>>>>
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E64%257E1373786,00.html 

[AWD]

5. Pot, meet kettle

[blm]

8. If you can find ONE smear then repost it.

I have only posted articles dealing with Dean's OWN words and actions in the political arena and have repeated their contents when applicable. In fact, I have rarely even started threads about Dean.

[AWD]

66. Here....

...you called him offensive. That's a smear.

Of course, now you'll claim it was taken out of context or you misspoke, or you meant to use the word offensive as a good word.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=36292#37898

[DemBones DemBones]

77. It's not a "smear" to call someone "offensive" and, in that post, blm

seemed to be using it more in the meaning of Dean having "gone on the offensive."

Here's her entire post:


"Why is Dean so OFFENSIVE?

He misrepresents the others and has done so since last January.
He deserves MUCH harsher rebukes than he is getting now."

Not a smear, not bashing, just a criticism of a candidate.

[Eloriel]

28. LOL

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. (I NEVER use 3 words when 10 will do.)

Hey, AWD -- put back that great photo with Dean in your sig line, eh?

:hi:

Eloriel

[AWD]

64. You mean THIS one????

[SonofMass]

9. He seems to be doing a good job

all by himself.

[newyawker99]

12. Hi SonofMass!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Octafish]

13. Kerry's gone after the BFEE since he became a Navy officer.

The guy is committed to doing good with his life.

John Kerry went to do the country's work in Vietnam as an officer in the US Navy. He discovered the reality of the war did not match the politcal rhetoric used to justify it before the American people at home. That knowledge did not deter him from doing his duty. Kerry came home a war hero, resigned his commission, and was enlisted in the anti-war movement, where he earned the enmity of Richard Nixon and his toadies.

Years later, after serving as a Massachusetts state prosecuting attorney — where he went after the Mafia, the CIA's henchmen in many matters domestic and foreign — Kerry took up the cause of going after the BFEE at the highest levels of government. He did investigate CIA drug running, the Iran-contra affair and its ties to the corrupt BCCI bank, which ties to ENRON, Selection 2000 and 9-11.

Here's a "fer instance":

… During the Reagan/Daddy Bush Administrations, Wendy Gramm was for twelve years head of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, regulating the commodity industry. As pointed out earlier in this series, she was reportedly the recipient of bribes along with her husband who has decided not to run for re-election as U.S. Senator (R., Texas), Phil Gramm. While leaving office she pushed through regulations freeing Enron from supervision.

She also reportedly covered up the bribery, by the infamous bank, BCCI, of 28 members of the U.S. Senate and 108 members of the House of Representatives.

As part of the apparent Enron cover up, Wendy was a Board Member AND on the inner auditing committee. She reportedly helped cover up the massive money laundering by Enron/Marc Rich International through the Chicago markets and major money center banks.

Other info on ENRON…

http://www.the-catbird-seat.net/ENRON.htm

[Rose Siding]

18. So that's what happened to them

I was wondering how they could get 2 presidencies, various governorships, a seat on the board of Carlyle, any war they want and the slavish devotion of such a huge chunk of the American public.

Just imagine how much worse it could have been.

[blm]

22. Read.

You really have never heard what happened back then? Read Parry and Zinn.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. Look.

Look outside your window.

[Andy_Stephenson]

32. Amen

Thank God Kerry has hounded the BFEE for so long...I feel so much safer with Kerry on the job! (sarcasm on)

[Eloriel]

35. Huh?

What's Kerry got to do with Wendy Gramm?

I don't remember ANYthing Kerry did to expose Enron or any of the rest of that. And I don't hear him talking about why isn't Ken Lay in prison, either.

Eloriel

[Andy_Stephenson]

38. Because Kerry has....

oh excuse me Teresa has many oil and gas investments. Might stir some nastiness up.

[Octafish]

62. You must’ve forgotten what you wrote May 9 on DU1 GD, DU Friend:

“Great Find!” — Eloriel

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=7548&forum=DCForumID70&archive=

For everyone else, here’s how BCCI and Wendy Gramm tie to the present day scumbags at ENRON and from there course along through Selection 2000 and 9-11 LIHOP…

Guess who ties ENRON to BCCI?

Wendy Gramm! Yes, the wonderful wife of that smooth-talking ex-Senator and fun-loving deregulator, Phil Gramm. Holy smokes!

Here's the citation and source from the Federation of American Scientists website. If we've already gone over this, I've gotta go take an aspirin.

If not, let's have at it, DU! Yee-haw! It's feeding time...

(Kerry subcommittee's BCCI report, no copyright problems — {Octafish})


CAPCOM

Introduction

In the entire BCCI affair, perhaps no entity is more mysterious and yet more central to BCCI's collapse and criminality than Capcom, a London and Chicago based commodities futures firm which operated between 1984 and 1988. Capcom is vital to understanding BCCI because BCCI's top management and most important Saudi shareholders were involved with the firm. Moreover, Capcom moved huge amounts of money -- billions of dollars -- which passed through the future's markets in a largely anonymous fashion.

Capcom was created by the former head of BCCI's Treasury Department, Ziauddin Ali Akbar, who capitalized it with funds from BCCI and BCCI customers. The company was staffed, primarily, by former BCCI bankers, many of whom had worked with Akbar in Oman and few of whom had any experience in the commodities markets. The major investors in the company were almost exclusively Saudi and were largely controlled by Sheik AR Khalil, the chief of Saudi intelligence. Additionally, the company employed many of the same practices as BCCI, especially the use of nominees and front companies to disguise ownership and the movement of money. Four Americans, Larry Romrell, Robert Magness, Kerry Fox and Robert Powell -- none of whom had any experience or expertise in the commodities markets -- played important and varied roles as frontmen.

While the Subcommittee has been able to piece together the history of Capcom and can point to many unusual and even criminal acts committed by the firm, it still has not been able to determine satisfactorily the reason Capcom was created and the purposes it served for the various parties connected to the BCCI scandal. It appears from the available evidence that Akbar, BCCI, and the Saudis all may have pursued different goals through Capcom, including:

-- misappropriation of BCCI assets for personal enrichment.

-- laundering billions of dollars from the Middle East to the US and other parts of the world.

-- siphoning off assets from BCCI to create a safe haven for them outside of the official BCCI empire.

SNIP...


Despite suspicions about highly unusual transactions, CFTC Chairperson Wendy Gramm told the Subcommittee:

In terms of finding trading violations or Commodity Exchange Act violations that perhaps could support money laundering, we did not find any discernible pattern...o one has ben able to --at least other law enforcement officials have not been able to find money laundering in Capcom US, to our knowledge, as of now.(133)

Money laundering, as Chairperson Gramm testified, is not even a violation of the Commodities Futures Trading Act. Incredibly, it appears that the CFTC and the self-regulatory organizations have never even made a criminal referral for possible money laundering:

Senator Kerry. ave you ever specifically referred, or have any of the exchanges ever made a criminal referral for money laundering?

Dr. Gramm. We have raised concerns.

Senator Kerry. Have you made a criminal referral for money laundering?

Dr. Gramm. No. Not-- not specifically in that regard...

Continued...

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/21capcom.htm

[Eloriel]

68. And I guess you didn't read my post

I don't remember ANYthing Kerry did to expose Enron or any of the rest of that. And I don't hear him talking about why isn't Ken Lay in prison, either.


So Kerry asked Wendy a question or two -- when, back in the 80s, early 90s perhaps?

I asked: what did Kerry do to expose ENRON? Or even Wendy Gramm and Enron?

Eloriel

[CentristDemocrat]

14. Kerry's shoulders aren't broad enough

[Octafish]

75. Broad enough to fly his own airplane.

Gee, for a "centrist," CentristDemocrat, it sounds like you don't like Kerry for some reason. What is that reason? You wouldn't be backing another horse, now would ya? No problem if you do, just say so.

Regarding your post: Kerry's shoulders seem plenty broad. They're wide enough to start wind surfing in his 50s.



Senator John Kerry, Nevin Sayre and publisher/editor John Chao windsurfed from Cape Cod to Nantucket on July 3rd, 1998. The six and a half hour crossing celebrated the closing of this article which began on July 4th, 1997.

http://www.americanwindsurfer.com/mag/back/issue5.5a.html

Broad enough to wear these shoulder boards and lead men in combat, never losing a man under his command (and care).

[stickdog]

15. Why does the BFEE want to stop Kerry?

What has Kerry done to stop the BFEE?

[blm]

17. You really have no idea what happened

back in BCCI and IranContra? Read Robert Parry's extensive work from that time. Or are you changing perception of history for your own agenda?

Does it matter to you that almost EVERYTHING we know today about the BFEE was exposed by Kerry's dogged investigations?

Whatever....Here's something to remind you that even when the congress was going to let them pass, Kerry still pursued it.

THE NORTH NOTEBOOKS
From Washington by Tim Wheeler

EXCERPT...

In Washington, at the request of Irangate special prosecutor Lawrence Walsh, a new grand jury has been empanelled to consider evidence that Bush and President Reagan were very much "in the loop" on the criminal enterprise.

Also in Washington, Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), chair of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Terrorism and Narcotics, announced May 18 that he is examining thousands of newly released photocopied pages from Lt. Col. Oliver North's notebooks, which expose White House lying on the Noriega case. The National Security Archive and Ralph Nader's Public Citizen released thousands of the same pages at two press conferences on May 8 and May 18.

Senator Kerry declared, "The North notebooks confirm that high-level U.S. officials, including officials at the CIA and the NSC , knew about General Noriega's drug trafficking and corruption in 1986, kept him on the U.S. payroll and discussed helping him clean up his image in return for his help for the contras."

"The information was important because throughout 1988, while my hearings were taking place, the White House was denying that it had known about Noriega's drug trafficking." Kerry added, "There is something fundamental that is violated in a democracy when the White House can classify documents as 'Codeword Top Secret' in order to suppress politically damaging information in an election year." Kerry suggested that Walsh examine sworn testimony of former Assistant Secretary of State Elliot Abrams and Donald Gregg to determine if they committed perjury. Kerry said the documents also raise questions of whether NSC and intelligence officers engaged in domestic surveillance in violation of the law.

The North notebooks provide a wealth of new evidence. One page, released for the first time May 8, lists a "mtg w V.P." at 12 noon, August 6, 1986. North began that day by meeting with Israeli terrorist expert, Amiram Nir. According to North's notes, he then went to an extraordinary meeting at the White House with members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. According to his later testimony, North "lied, lied, lied" to the lawmakers about the Iran-contra conspiracy. North then met with several other covert agents, including Gregg. Finally he met with Vice President Bush. Did the Vice President discuss with North his lies to an official oversight committee of the U.S. Congress?

Asked about this notation in North's notebook, White House Press Secretary Marlin Fitzwater declared, "The vice president's role in the Iran-contra affair was completely examined in the congressional inquiry and we have nothing to add."

CONTINUED...
http://www.skepticfiles.org/socialis/north.htm

[stickdog]

59. The BFEE currently has the Presidency of the USA, Iraq, the state

of Florida, Afghanistan and much of Central and South America.

So what has Kerry done to successfully stop them?

[blm]

74. Did Dean support him?

How many Dems saw what was happening and jumped in to help Kerry expose the BFEE? How many jumped in to STOP Kerry?

Stop and THINK...We know MOST of what we know about the BFEE because of Kerry's investigative work and yet so many of you want to kick him to the curb. That's disgusting for any TRUE antiBFEE person.

[Octafish]

20. Thanks for askin' stickdog, DU Friend... Here's a small sampler:

John Kerry took on the BFEE, virtually singlehandedly. Why do you think his sniffing around the Iran-contra drug dealing got Ollie North’s panties twisted so far up his superpatriotically pimpled backsides? Ollie sicced the FBI’s crack counter-terrorism squad on Kerry. Don’t believe me, here’s some background from 1999:

THE NORTH NOTEBOOKS

EXCERPT…

The information was so revealing that it would have precipitated a full-fledged political crisis were it not for collaboration in the coverup by the bi-partisan congressional leadership, the courts, and the Big Business news media. Indeed, the refusal of Congress and the media to root out the source of the Iran-contra conspiracy and bring the criminals to justice is now becoming, in itself, an overriding issue. Investigative writers such as Seymour Hersh of the New York Times and Scott Armstrong of the National Security Archive are beginning to sharply assail Congress and the media for cowardice and collaboration in the conspiracy. More and more, Iran-contra is exposed as a crisis of the two-party system with the Democrats unable or unwilling to challenge the secret junta in the White House basement.

SNIP…

In Washington, at the request of Irangate special prosecutor
Lawrence Walsh, a new grand jury has been empanelled to consider evidence that Bush and President Reagan were very much "in the loop" on the criminal enterprise. Also in Washington, Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), chair of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Terrorism and Narcotics, announced May 18 that he is examining thousands of newly
released photocopied pages from Lt. Col. Oliver North's notebooks, which expose White House lying on the Noriega case. The National Security Archive and Ralph Nader's Public Citizen released thousands of the same pages at two press conferences on May 8 and May 18.

Senator Kerry declared, "The North notebooks confirm that
high-level U.S. officials, including officials at the CIA and the NSC
, knew about General Noriega's drug
trafficking and corruption in 1986, kept him on the U.S. payroll and discussed helping him clean up his image in return for his help for the contras."

"The information was important because throughout 1988, while my hearings were taking place, the White House was denying that it had known about Noriega's drug trafficking." Kerry added, "There is something fundamental that is violated in a democracy when the White House can classify documents as 'Codeword Top Secret' in order to suppress politically damaging information in an election year." Kerry suggested that Walsh examine sworn testimony of former Assistant Secretary of State Elliot Abrams and Donald Gregg to determine if they committed perjury. Kerry said the documents also raise questions of
whether NSC and intelligence officers engaged in domestic surveillance in violation of the law.

CONTINUED…

http://www.skepticfiles.org/socialis/north.htm


AS PROMISED, HERE’S WHERE OLLIE THE TRAITOR SHINES:

From “Conspiracies, Cover-Ups and Crimes”:

According to the FBI reports, North asked the FBI to investigate Kerry, to find links between the Massachusetts senator and the Nicaraguan Sandinista government. The investigation was reportedly initiated by a crack FBI counterintelligence group usually employed to track foreign agents in the United States.

SOURCE: Jonathan Vankin. Conspiracies, Cover-Ups and Crimes: Political Manipulation and Mind Control in America, Paragon House, New York, pp. 163–164 (1991):

Now, for someone to bring out the heavy artillery, there must have been several highly placed people FROM BOTH PARTIES who were — and I will vote still are — mighty scared of what Sen. Kerry might have to say as president. This person’s Dim Son may also want to hide when Kerry starts looking into 9-11 and the events leading up to the worst day in our nation’s history. — Octafish

Alone...



Kerry in 1992 presided over a Senate probe
of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International.
The inquiry had led him to call 84-year-old Clark Clifford to testify,
angering fellow Democrats.

[Eloriel]

65. You don't seem to understand

Whatever "good" Kerry did way back then -- and I'll allow that it was quite possibly excellent and important work (don't know and don't much care at this point) -- there's been NO FOLLOW UP OR FOLLOW THROUGH FOR, as near as I can tell, OVER A DECADE.

AFAIC, Knowledge unused is complicity. Knowledge unused amounts to a betrayal. Or, as Will Pitt might say, "The greatest sedition is silence."

Eloriel

[Octafish]

69. I understand what you don't want to ask: "What's Dean done to stop BFEE?"

So, what has Howard Dean done against the BFEE?

Zip. Zero. Nada. The empty set. The Golden Egg.

Has he even TALKED about the BFEE? Or BCCI? Or Iran-contra drug running?

Everything in its time, I suppose. I hope.

Until then, we can arm ourselves. Thank Duke for the NRA!

[Raven]

19. I just don't get what's going on here!

Why are folks getting so venomous about Dem candidates? Any one of these candidates is head and shoulders above Bush. I've known John Kerry for 30 years and he is certainly not the devil. He may not be your choice or mine, but that doesn't give me license to bash the hell out of his supporters. Blm posted an interesting thread and already there is a pile-on.

What is going on here??? I have been following these Kerry threads for a while now and my conclusion is that either there are some Bush people checking in or some of the egos here on GD just won't quit.

Tell me, what is going on here!?

[janekat]

40. Really - I came to this forum to get away from this.....

I left another political forum to come here to get away from a bunch of histrionic Pubs screaming about how horrible Clinton is AND how horrible all the Dem candidates are and I'm getting the same SHIT here!!!

I may have to go back to my old forum. The Pubs on that board aren't even as nasty as some of the Dems here.

This all makes me feel that we're going to have a replay of 2000.

[knaveree]

61. Well Raven...

my guess--and I emphasize it's only a guess--is that there's a little bit of everything going on here.

Full disclosure: I'm a Kerry supporter.

However: my sense is that some people have great confidence in their own political acumen, partly because they're smart and partly because such confidence is a barrier against the fear of four more years of the Bush jihad. So they back one candidate and all others become the devil.

Also, I believe that at least a few of the posters around here really are Rove operatives. This was always the Nixonian modus operandi, and we're still dealing with his legacy. These folks can post on pro-Dean threads as Kerry boosters and stir up bile. They can post on pro-Kerry threads as Dean boosters and stir up bile. Keep the Dems fighting each other and they can't really fight the GOP. It's just smart politics, in the small sense of that word.

In the end, I think many of us Dems are so anguished and angry about the Bush junta that we search for outlets for all that rage, and since the GOP is unavailable to us, and most of the major media ignore us, we lash out at each other. It's too bad, but it's understandable.

It's also an opportunity to practice tolerance and understanding. Everytime I read a post that bashes Kerry, I try to temper my rancor with a measure of understanding that the poster is either so filled with righteous anger at the GOP that I should applaud them, or else figure they're agents provocateurs from the GOP trying to keep us fractured.

And then I give money to the Kerry campaign.

If you're a Dean supporter, or a Kucinich supporter, or Edwards or Clark, I would encourage the same response: bash my candidate, and produce more funds for him/her. Fight hate with love, fight negatives with positives. It's how we'll win, whoever we nominate...

Bruce

[Andromeda]

71. That's not the point, Raven...

There's just a lot of hypocrisy going on here. Blm and one other poster in particular (there are others but they're just mildly irritating) have created a Dean-bashing crusade in this forum. Most of what they say is untrue, exaggerated or taken out of context. No favorable comment about Howard Dean can go without being sullied by these posters. It's not merely opposition to some of Dean's views but a great deal of vitriol is put into it. To a point, it can be ignored but when there comes a time when it's just downright mean and abusive.

I have made it a point not to use personal attacks on any of the Dem candidates and I'm going to stick to that. The only negative thing I would ever say would be if one the candidates says something really over-the-top or if I didn't agree with some of their policies. Any one of our candidates would be an improvement over the current occupant in the White House.

I really don't like to cricize other posters either. If someone says something I don't like I just try to ignore them but sometimes it's hard to do. Facts are the only thing that interests me and not all the extraneous crap some people throw into the mix.

edited for spelling

[Andy_Stephenson]

24. Kerry's words.

"almost eliminate CIA activity"
Eliminate it and replace it with what? Homeland security?

"I just came back really concerned about it and upset about it and angry about it,"

But it's ok now to send people to their deaths

"I just said to the admiral: `I've got to get out. I've got to go do what I came back here to do, which is, end this thing,'"

So I can move on to my PNAC future

Kerry chose a telling location: the Pershing family's Jamaica home. Richard Pershing, a close friend of Kerry's and a fellow member of Yale's Skull and Bones society, had been killed in Vietnam.

Them bones boys stick together don't they.

"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam?" Kerry asked. How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?
"

I don't know John. But let me ask you this...How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Iraq? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?


"Do you want to be president of the United States?" Safer asked Kerry.

"No," Kerry replied. "That's such a crazy question when there are so many things to be done and I don't know whether I could do them."

So he is running for President because......

"However, I did take part in free-fire zones, I did take part in harassment and interdiction fire, I did take part in search-and-destroy missions in which the houses of noncombatants were burned to the ground. And all of these acts, I find out later on, are contrary to the Hague and Geneva conventions and to the laws of warfare. So in that sense, anybody who took part in those, if you carry out the application of the Nuremberg Principles, is in fact guilty. But we are not trying to find war criminals. That is not our purpose. It never has been."

Bush will never stand trial for his war crimes. Not when frat brothers cover each others ass. Oh and John...ignorance of the law is no excuse.


O'Neill: "The war didn't change . I think he was a guy driven tremendously by ambition. I think he was that way before he went and is that way today."

My thoughts exactly

[Raven]

27. Kerry's words from where?

You know better than to throw stuff up without sources. Who is O'Neill? How am I to know where you got this stuff and what its context is? I'm really surprised at you, I would have expected better.

[Andy_Stephenson]

30. Read the article blm started this thread with.

I took the time to read it.

[Raven]

36. I read it too and you still took stuff

out of context and you swallowed the Globe article whole.

[Andy_Stephenson]

39. Are they or are they not Kerry's words?

and the context on all the quotes came directly from the article.

Regardless. His most recent actions negate all he has done re war in the past. Actions speak louder than words.


Edit: "He may be a real likeable guy tring to do good things" But the votes don't jive with the spin.

[Raven]

42. I repeat, you swallowed the Globe whole...

no checking, no second sources...and we all know how reliable these rags are. But, notwithstanding that, I think what really bugs you is that Kerry is a rich, frat guy. So, based on what you are saying, we should probably keep Bush for another 4 years...what's the difference?

[Andy_Stephenson]

50. Where is a difference?!?!?!?

Bush wanted this war Kerry handed it to him on a silver platter...now he wants to bankroll the war on our backs, so companies like GE can make money and fatten his investment. And Bush Jr's as well! It reeks of impropriety. Kerry is two faced.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

44. Andy, The Globe Has Had A Vendetta Against Kerry for Decades

The original owners of the Globe were the Taylors, an old New England Yankee Republican family who had a vendetta against Kerry (I asked my dad about this but he couldn't remember the details).

I am not a fan of Kerry (I like Kucinich and Dean far better) but I think you are not being fair to him and see a conspiracy where ther isn't one. I am from Mass. and I'm glad he's my Senator.

Hey, no one is perfect and we all can't live up to everyone's exacting standards. It's part of life-we're all flawed.

[Andy_Stephenson]

48. Rose....

I judge him on the War Vote...Patriot Act...and Homeland Gestapo. Well, and a few others I have found recently. I don't trust him...I don't like him...he creeps me out. The same way Bush Jr does. Kerry seems most insincere to me. Sorry no conspiracy. I just done like the man. At all.

[oasis]

29. "Richard Pershing..fellow member Skull and Bones..killed in Vietnam"

Why wouldn't those Skull and Boneser's use their influence to avoid being killed in the war?

[Andy_Stephenson]

31. Beats me...

But this is an example of how buddy buddy they are. All cozy like.

[oasis]

34. Isn't that charcateristic of most fraternity brothers. That's the idea.

I thought.

[Andy_Stephenson]

37. Bush is his "Brother" then right,

and George Sr is his "Brother" too. Now I see.

[oasis]

41. So were Cain and Able. What's your point?

[Andy_Stephenson]

45. Point...no point really...

I like to hound Kerry on the real issue. His war vote...Patriot Act vote...and the several others I have found, which indicate to me a wanton disregard for common people. Skull and bones is but a small part of Kerry's make up. His record id what I really look to...He supported Bush* on war. NO opposition is what he showed his "Brother" bravo. John tucked tail and ran from the most important fight in his life, and now people are dying because of it. Are you proud of his vote? DO you personally feel good about it???

[Raven]

52. Now you are on to something!

If you stuck to the issues you have raised in your latest post we would have had something to talk about...his vote...not the frat stuff or the rich wife...his vote. Phew! It took a while to get the important stuff out of you. I agree, the vote is a big problem, especially for him...that's why I am leaning toward Dean. But do me a favor, will ya? Don't insult my intelligence by assuming that you have to raise these batty reasons not to vote for Kerry. There is enough on his record to have a good, healthy discussion.

[oasis]

54. I'm anti-war. I'm dissapointed by many in the Senate and House.

[seventhson]

47. Bonesmen are in a life and death struggle to stay on top.

They NEED people who will die for fascism.

They sacrifice their young on the altar of mammon


and if they survive (especially if they get the bonesmen "perks")they are more powerful warriors and more willing to use death as a tool of their regime.

[oasis]

55. "altar of mammon" c'mon now.

:tinfoilhat:

[seventhson]

43. Nixon was very proud of kerry. Kerry IS BFEE. They only pretend to ...

oppose him.

If he can beat Bush the BFEE will be pleased as punch.

Anyway. If we stop Kerry in the primaries then we can move along to getting Dean elected.

He impresses me more and more every day.

Dean is such a breath of fresh air.

I miss Gore though.

Anyway, I think the BFEE WANTS their boy Kerry. He really is one of THEM.

Really. It's a historic relationship.

[Andy_Stephenson]

46. Yes and

"Secret" too.

[Raven]

53. If you are supporting Dean...

I'm elsewhere! But I love your humor.

[Octafish]

73. Kerry FIGHTS the Bush Organized Crime Family

His entire adult life, John Kerry has fought the BFEE. He may have lost a battle in getting the Justice Departments of Reagan, Bush and Clinton to go after BCCI (after all, it's only bi-partisan corruption at the highest levels of government), but the facts show Kerry will win the war with the Bush Organized Crime Family, AKA the "Bush Family Evil Empire."

Tell you something: If I have my way, John Kerry will be the next President of the United States. Then he can get busy finishing the job he started against the BFEE. He’s got a tough enough hoe to row fighting the list of bed-wetting bastids he’s faced so far. I’m thankful there are a lot of people on DU who feel likewise, several of whom have posted on this thread.

The reason for my optimism? The American people will learn Kerry has been on the side of the good guys. It's clear in his bio. My question to you is why are you so gung-ho intent on smearing Kerry?

Anyway, Kerry's is the first name that comes to mind when it comes to busting George Bush Jr. Next on his list should be George Bush Sr., John Poindexter, and Oliver North, Richard Perle (Iran-Contra, PNAC and BCCI) Paul Wofowitz and the rest of the PNAC cabal, Donald Rumsfeld and Colin Powell (arming Iraq) and a whole bunch more. There IS a lot of work to do. Indictments first, trials later.

Regarding CIA Iran-Contra Drug Dealing: Here's what Jonathan Vankin wrote, back when it was merely a risqué subject (today, it’s gone taboo, with reporters like Garry Webb, nee Sacramento Bee, losing their jobs for writing stories about it). BTW, I’m sorry I couldn’t post this underneath several posts where it would be apropos.

EXCERPT:

… To comprehend the government’s role in cocaine traffic, (Manuel) Noriega is useful as a kind of focal point. He was on the payroll of the CIA at the same time he worked for the Medellin Cartel for four million dollars per month. The Medellin Cartel is the Columbian cocaine syndicate, responsible for most of the cocaine that enters the U.S.A.

Noriega was also connected to George Bush (Senior), and through Bush to Oliver North. They used Noriega as a conduit for getting arms to the contras.

Bush, North, and other government insiders at the CIA and the National Security Council (which under Reagan got heavily into covert operations) most likely knew about Noriega’s involvement with drugs. Revelations about Noriega, and about direct contra and CIA involvement with cocaine smuggling, found their way into public record via a subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, chaired by John Kerry.

In 1986, Senator Kerry received information that the Costa Rican branch of a Miami-based shrimp company Ocean Hunter, widely regarded as a drug-running front, had received checks for more than $200,000 dollars from the U.S. government. The money was part of the “humanitarian aid” allocated for the contras by Congress. Wondering why the cash was channeled to this shrimp-and-dope outfit, Kerry went to the FBI asking for an inquiry. Instead, the FBI investigated Kerry himself.

SNIP…

But wait, it gets better!

According to the FBI reports, North asked the FBI to investigate Kerry, to find links between the Massachusetts senator and the Nicaraguan Sandinista government. The investigation was reportedly initiated by a crack FBI counterintelligence group usually employed to track foreign agents in the United States.

SOURCE: Jonathan Vankin. Conspiracies, Cover-Ups and Crimes: Political Manipulation and Mind Control in America, Paragon House, New York, pp. 163–164 (1991):

Now, for someone to bring out the heavy artillery, there must have been several highly placed people who were — and I will vote still are — mighty scared of what Sen. Kerry might have to say as president.



FROM THE GLOBE SERIES: Day after day, according to the tapes and memos, Nixon aides worried that Kerry was a unique, charismatic leader who could undermine support for the war. Other veteran protesters were easier targets, with their long hair, their use of a Viet Cong flag, and in some cases, their calls for overthrowing the US government. Kerry, by contrast, was a neat, well-spoken, highly decorated veteran who seemed to be a clone of former President John F. Kennedy, right down to the military service on a patrol boat.

The White House feared him like no other protester.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml

So, why do you fear Kerry? You LIKE Nixon? Nixon liked George Bush. Gerald Ford liked George Bush so much, he made him head of the CIA. That's where the real skullduggery lies, regarding November 22, 1963.

[OrdinaryTa]

49. It's a Hard Sell

Even assuming that Kerry did not pull strings to get out early from Vietnam, it's a hard sell to the general public. Who the hell is Kerry that he inspires such naive confidence among otherwise skeptical Democrats? Why wouldn't he pull strings to get out of Vietnam? That place was dangerous!

This trust in John Kerry is almost laughable. John wouldn't lie to us!

Did you fall off a turnip truck?

[oasis]

56. Would Max Cleland lie to us?

[Raven]

60. No, but I think you did...and hit your head...and did some

serious damage to your mind. But keep it up, it's great comedy.

[KFC]

57. Kerry = Gravitas

Of course they are scared of him - stature, experience and a decorated veteran. Edwards or Graham will be his vice president.

[fujiyama]

70. I can't understand

this hatred of Kerry. I keep reading people angry over senators voting on the Patriot Act, and while I agree that Fiengold showed a lot of courage in voting against it, EVERY OTHER senator voted for it, EVEN WELLSTONE! I know that's frustrating, but considering it was just 2-3 months after 9/11 they really didn't put the time into it that they should have.

Similar for the war vote, though here I'm a far more critical of Kerry. I still am confused by his war stance. It was more wishy washy than I would have preferred. He's tried to have it both ways on this issue.

Still, Kerry has one of the most impressive records in the senate (definetely more impressive than Hillary's short career, or even Kucinich's, which has been far less effective - though he may be right on many issues). His experience being on the most important senate committees would be most welcome. Being a decorated war veteran also gives him a very unique perspective on the horrors on war, and I would hope that it would influence him on his decision making as president. I know it's hard for many to look beyond his war vote, but if he does get the nomination, I would hope everyone (including all Dean voters) would for him. He's no Joe Lieberman. His record isn't nearly as corporate friendly. He voted against one bill -- the bankruptcy overhall bill, many other liberal leaning senators voted for (Hillary voted for this bill even though Bill had vetoed it as Pres.).

I would urge everyone to support whomever they want. Dean has some great qualities including the enthusiasm he's brought and the candor with which he's opposed the war from the begining. He also had a good record as governor. Still, I don't see that as being any justification for bashing Kerry's great record of public service for his nation.

[UTUSN]

72. Kick n/t