Dean versus the 'Old Democrats': What more can they throw at him?

[farmbo]

Gephardt attacks Dean by comparing him to Newt Gingrich (Don't ask?!)with respect to his position on Medicaid...

Nancy Pelosi attacks Dean for having the temerity to suggest that the US should be 'evenhanded' in our negotiations with the Israelis and the Palistinians...

Kerry attacks Dean suggesting (based on who's numbers, no one can tell) that repealing Bush's taxcuts would cost "middle class taxpayers?" more than $2000...

What more can the Old Democrats throw at Howard Dean without absolutely wrenching the party apart?

And do they give a tinker's damn if they do tear our party apart?

Perhaps their goal to preserve the warm, comfortable status quo of special interest $money$ = political power = special interest legislation = special interest $money$ = political power...etc etc

The first Democratic candidate who has succeeded in showing that a winning campaign CAN be funded with massive $50 individual contributions, now finds himself under a frantic assault by the entrenched Democratic bureaucracy-- the Old Democrats-- who are, frankly, intent on destroying his candidacy.

[blm]

1. Dean shouldn't have started attacking back in January.

And he misrepresented the others and bashed the Dem party to make a name for himself. He's reaping what he sowed.

[babzilla]

10. that's one of the reasons why Dean resonates

How many anti-pink-tu-tu dem posts were there back in January? Plenty.

Dean represented what I was thinking in January when he called on the Democratic party to stand up for itself against the wrong-headed ideas of this misadministration. Dean has made it safer for all of the candidates to criticize.

After the 2002 elections when it seemed like no Dem could be bush-lite enough on top of the outrageous criticism of Wellstone's memorial service, Dean set just the right tone with me when he went about shakin the shit up. I really do want my country back!

[blm]

15. That was perception not truth.

Gore and Kerry had been at it all year during 2002 but the press muted their critiques.

When Dean started bashing Dems he got himself airtime. He misrepresented about the others to glorify himself. He was never ANGRY at the Dem party. He was tapping in to an angry vein that already existed.

Dean 2003 is completely different from Dean 1992-2002. YOU buy his populist conversion rhetoric. I do not. Ted Rall doesn't buy it. Neither does Jimmy Breslin or Richard Reeves. But, what do they know?

[Rose Siding]

19. Dean in 2002

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8810&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1321

Just how interested was the press when he gave the Keynote Address at the National Coalition for Essential Schools at Marriott Wardman Park?

Dean got press after huge numbers of people became interested in him. And Gore did get coverage for his opposition to Bush because it was strong. There was lots of press for Gore because he didn't decide not to run until late in the year.

[dsc]

27. One has to wonder how much Mr. Rall

does know given that he didn't know what the strategy of gay and lesbian groups on gay marriage was (as evidenced by his 6th question in his questions to Dean). Had he asked (like I had in real time) he would have presumedly gotten the exact same answer I did (that we DIDN'T want governors to comment on gay marriage while the issue was in the courts). We feared a right wing backlash (yeah silly I know). So I do think it is fair to ask just what he does know.

[clar]

24. As a long time Dean watcher

and Vermonter, it's my pleasure to inform you, blm, that Dean has major teflon qualities. I may have moments when I'm disappointed with him, and OK, I'm not a diehard supporter, more an ABBAL person, but his teflon is nothing but a good thing should he make it to the general election. I know you're dying for him to go down, but don't look for it to happen anytime soon. BTW, Kerry, who I like, lost major points with me today over his rhetoric. Yecchh.

[KaraokeKarlton]

29. Exactly, clar

Dean's got big time teflon...nothing sticks. The more the fools attack him, the stronger he's going to get. After the 2000 election he can handle anything and come out on top. He's a fighter and a winner. All Kerry and Lieberman have succeeded in doing is pissing off the new base of primary voters. They both also prove they are weak on national defense and foreign policy. The lack of US evenhandedness is why Al Qaida despises us enough to want to kill us. Resolve the Israeli/Palestinian issue and you also do a lot to stop terrorism, because it will end the anger at our government. As a parent of kids who fight, I know that you can't only listen to one side in a conflict. You have to listen to both sides and play the role of peacemaker. You can't be effective doing so if you've already decided one side is wrong and the other is right. It takes two to fight. Everyone with even just one brain cell knows this. It disgusts me to no end that Kerry and Lieberman are trying to portray Dean as some kind of bigot. I will NOT vote for either one of them after this. Too often people use this very method to falsely label anyone who criticizes the Israeli government as a Jew hater. I despise ANYONE who does this. They are dividers and I cannot support such disgusting behavior.

[Evanstondem]

35. Bashing Dem Leaders on Iraq is why I'm for Dean

Which mis-representations would you be talking about? He didn't bashed the Dem party, he bashed the Dems in Congress who weren't listening to the Dem party.

[ibegurpard]

2. I agree

And that's why Dean and, to a lesser extent, Kucinich have been the candidates that I have found the most compelling.

[idaholeft]

3. second place

These same Demoratic leaders have brought our party to the lofty position of a solid second place........in a two horse race.

[newyawker99]

6. Hi idaholeft!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Cha]

4. Don't worry Dean can handle those attacks ...they're nothing...

Only makes him stronger! WooHoo!

Give em all ya got, nancy, geppy, johnnys, whomvever.

[Northwind]

5. It doesn't matter what they throw at him

Nothing will stop him. Kerry is a dean man walking. Lieberman is a joke. Gephardt and Edwards are on life support and Kucinich never had a chance in the first place.

Dean is the next President of the United States of America.

It is inevitable.

[blm]

8. And Deanies have been talking like this for many months

led by your leader who threw the first twenty punches at the other Dems and you wonder why there is reciprocation.

[Northwind]

20. I do not recall berating other candidates for attacking Dean

That is politics. Part of the process, to be expected, and managed as best as possible, which Dean has done admirably. By throwing punches early, when fewer people were watching the race, he moved forward as well as goading the others into retaliation. Retaliation which takes place now, once more people are paying attention, and therefore more damaging to them than him. Meanwhile, having already gotten his licks in early, he can sit back and look the more reasonable man, whilst they all look desperate and shrill.

Masterfully done. You are simply angry that the other candidates all fell for it.

Let them attack now. It doesn't matter. They are done.

[Eloriel]

9. IF we fix the voting machines problem

And it will take a bunch more of us working on that to make it happen.

Eloriel

[Cheswick2.0]

18. gag

that shit is enough to make me stay home on election day.

[JohnKleeb]

21. dont worry about it ches

BTW I am glad you found a candiate in Carol M-B shes great. Dont worry about it. I think its something that makes me pissed too but I aint gonna act it out, I dont wanna lose my cool.

[poskonig]

7. We're tough, and the attacks give Dean free airtime.

Zang!

[farmbo]

11. Thump Chest: That Which Does Not Destroy Me, Makes Me Stronger!

Bravissimo!!!
Give 'em Hell Howard!

[w13rd0]

12. The issue with Pelosi and the house dems...

...has been resolved. Liebermans attack by proxy fell flat on its face, let's leave joe there in the mud, k?

[babzilla]

13. monkey poop?

I hear that monkey poop is fun to throw.

Ass-monkey poop is probably even more fun, and it probably wouldn't wrench the party apart in any way.

[Cocoa]

14. "Old Democrat" means something else to me

to me it is the opposite of "New Democrat", i.e. DLC. And I think at DU that "Old Democrat" would overwhelmingly be considered a good thing, and not a lot of people would include Gep or Kerry among them.

[JohnKleeb]

16. Cocoa I was about to say the same

The DLC is the new democrats, the centrists. I am an old time democrat :) with new attiude.

[JI7]

26. hehhe

when i saw kerry being called an "old democrat" i saw it as a compliment as it's a term which is often used to describe people like ted kennedy.

[Cheswick2.0]

17. who are you, the bush administration?

Old Democrats?

I think Gephardt is perfectly reasonable to comment about Deans position on medicare. Not everything said is a baseless attack. Besides, Dean started the attacks months ago.

Now he is either man enough to run an honest campaign or he is not. If he is going to use the Rove techniques from 2000 of attack and deflect (and act like the victim) I just am not interested in him.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. That was quite an edit!

[Kanola]

23. I agree that the candidates should question Dean's policies

but to compare him to Gingrich was namecalling and below the belt. Ad Hominem attacks just bore the hell out of me and I probably to potential voters.

[DemBones DemBones]

25. Dean's being criticized on his inconsistency, on his assertions

that he's the "only" candidate to do something when he's not, on his statement that seemed to say the U.S. should back away from Israel (a view that's anathema to many Democrats.) He's not being criticized unfairly.

Dean's supporters sound foolish when they complain about legitimate criticisms of their guy. He got pretty much a free ride for nearly a year because he was running for president full-time while the other candidates were waiting until this month to start heavy campaigning. Most of them also have full-time jobs as United States Senators or Representatives.

During Dean's early campaigning, he made some critical comments about the other Dems, such as referring to "Bushlite" Democrats. Now some criticisms are being made about him. It's all part of the political process.

Dean needs to tell his supporters the facts of life in politics.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

28. "Only One Candidate Letter" from Kucinich Campaign

I received this email from DK's campaign today:

Dear Voter,
Roughly 2/3 of Americans cannot name a single Democratic presidential candidate. The general election is, after all, more than 13 months away. But now is the time many are starting to look for a Democratic candidate who is most strongly opposed to the disastrous policies of George W. Bush. If that describes you or someone you know, please pass along the following information:

Only one candidate for President voted against the misnamed "Patriot Act."

Only one candidate plans to introduce legislation in Congress to repeal the "Patriot Act."

Only one candidate has declared without hesitation that he will vote against the Bush request for $87 billion in additional funds to continue the quagmire in Iraq.

Only one candidate has submitted a bill to Congress that would establish genuinely universal health coverage -- nonprofit national health insurance for all.

Only one candidate will withdraw from corporate trade deals like NAFTA and the WTO, and replace them with fair trade agreements that include labor and environmental protections.

Only one candidate has a plan to cut the bloated military budget by 15% ($60 billion annually) and invest those funds in universal child care.

Only one candidate sued George Bush to stop him from going to war in Iraq without a Congressional Declaration of War.

Only one candidate led opposition in Congress to the War in Iraq.

Only one candidate has a plan to repeal Bush's tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and invest that money in a plan for universal public education, age 3-college.

Only one candidate has pledged to break up corporate monopolies in agriculture, energy, media and other sectors that are strangling farmers, the environment and the public.

Only one candidate has pledged to not only sign the Kyoto Treaty on global warming, but to lead our country to 20% renewable energy by the year 2010.

Only one candidate risked his political career by standing up to banks and a private utility company to save public electric power.

Only one candidate has spoken out against the takeover of our water supply by large multinational corporations.

Only one candidate has sponsored legislation establishing a cabinet-level Department of Peace to participate in policy discussions alongside representatives of the Departments of State and Defense.

Only one candidate has a 98% lifetime pro-union voting record -- highest of all candidates as ranked by the AFL-CIO.

Only one candidate is calling for "living wages," not just minimum wages.

Only one candidate has a plan to put Americans back to work with major investment programs to rebuild schools, roads, bridges, ports, sewage, water and environmental systems.

Only one candidate stands firmly against the privatization of Social Security and for returning the Social Security retirement age to 65.

Only one candidate has introduced legislation to repeal the Federal death penalty.

Only one candidate has been endorsed by Willie Nelson, Ani DiFranco, Studs Terkel, Ed Asner, Hector Elizondo, Barbara Ehrenreich, Arun Gandhi, Ben Cohen (of Ben and Jerry's) and Granny D (who walked across the country for campaign reform at age 89).

One and only one candidate has taken the above positions.

It may not be who you think it is.

You may not have heard much about him.

His name is Dennis Kucinich, co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Now, I happen to like DK very much, and I don't doubt that he is stating facts. But I also recognize that this is a campaign tactic -- you gotta do something to point out the differences and set yourself apart from the others.

If nothing else, Dean is going to have all the white candidates talking about race in every speech. This is a good thing.

[Cha]

31. That's what I thought and said when it first happened...similiar

anyway!..

"If nothing else, Dean is going to have all the white candidates talking about race in every speech. This is a good thing."

[stickdog]

30. This is EXACTLY how I see it.

I WANT MY PARTY BACK!!!

I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!!

And anybody who doesn't understand this can quite frankly GO TO HELL.

[IndianaGreen]

32. Those that attacked Dean are the ones that voted for the war in Iraq

and that now have the audacity to expect that we vote for them just because they have a "D" after their names. Well, guess what? To indulge in the same rhetoric Ghepardt is using about Dean and Medicare, I will say that any Democrat that voted for the war in Iraq "actually agreed with Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Bush and Cheney." These Democrats are, again using Gephardt's phraseology, no better than Rush Limbaugh!

[janx]

33. Not only that, but Dean was the one to get them fired up by using

the "Bush light" rhetoric. Prior to that, they seemed like wimps. Now they're at least trying to sound as if they stand for something--but they shouldn't be attacking Dean.

[hedgetrimmer]

34. dean the jump and swing .... the pin-up poster boy for the "NEW"

democrats in "OLD" democrats clothing or "pin up" old democrats in new democrats clothing... the can you hold the party line candidate... can you give the tops what the bottoms want?.... can you sell it... can you come out and our boys get the dough, the bread, the chicken?.... can you perfrom felatio as good as clinton was getting it madass crazy deft stylized push the mouse and click for some more funds?... D-A-M-N! ... the killer within holds the phone for the killer without....