It just hit me--they WANT chaos in Iraq

[spinbaby]

Maybe I'm slow on the uptake, but it hit me this morning while watching BBCA morning news that the Bushies want at least some degree of chaos in Iraq so they can continue to say that Iraq "needs" us to "stabilize" the country.

[dutchdemocrat]

1. Chaos

is easier to control. Of course they do. They went after infrastructure with bombs and went right to the oil wells. Protect museum? No. That was something I find really repugnant.

[AP]

21. The whole point there is profits. Why draw the line at cultural plunder?

It was just so incredibly fitting that Fox employees were caught with some of that plunder. On an individual level, that was so incredibly symbolic of what that whole fucking corporation is doing there and what the RWers are doing there.

[RowWellandLive]

2. Doesn't make sense to me

This chaos is hurting them and I don't think they anticipated it at all. I think you give them too much diabotical credit when they are just inept.

[ima_sinnic]

3. but it is actually in the best interests of the neocons plans for . . .

some semblance of "democracy" and stabiity to come to Iraq as soon as possible. Joshua Michael Marshall had this to say 6 months ago, when the outcome of the invasion was still largely unknown:

<snip> The hawks' whole plan rests on the assumption that we can turn it into a self-governing democracy--that the very presence of that example will transform politics in the Middle East. . .</snip>

The "plan" of course is total control and "reform" of the entire Middle East:

<snip>In short, the administration is trying to roll the table--to use U.S. military force, or the threat of it, to reform or topple virtually every regime in the region, from foes like Syria to friends like Egypt, on the theory that it is the undemocratic nature of these regimes that ultimately breeds terrorism. So events that may seem negative--Hezbollah for the first time targeting American civilians; U.S. soldiers preparing for war with Syria--while unfortunate in themselves, are actually part of the hawks' broader agenda. Each crisis will draw U.S. forces further into the region and each countermove in turn will create problems that can only be fixed by still further American involvement, until democratic governments--or, failing that, U.S. troops--rule the entire Middle East.

Practice to deceive: Chaos in the Middle East is not the Bush hawks' nightmare scenario--it's their plan
Joshua Michael Marshall, Washington Monthly, April 2003

[KoKo]

6. This is certainly something to think about......Powell's trip for instance

seems very hoked up to me. He's supposed to be doing heavy diplomatic negotiating.....which ususally would be doe in secret after days of talks and then both sides: Germany France and Us would come out with a decision, shake hands take photo's and pat themselves on the back for compromise.

Bush/PNAC doesn't do things that way......they've broken with tradition.......WHY? Why is Powell blabbing all over that the French proposal is not acceptable. That leaves NO negotiating room. You only announce something is "Unacceptable Publically to the World" when you are trying NOT to succeed by negotiating.

So, you may have a point. Sending Powell out to round up support from France, Germany and the Russians is just a smokescreen or
worse a hollow gesture to make it "LOOK" like Bush/PNAC want to bring UN support and other troops in.......when in fact CHAOS is exactly what they want........

Either that are they are the most incompetent group of idiots we have ever had in this White House. At least in my time. Maybe Ulysses Grant was worse....but I wasn't around then.......:nuke:

[bearfartinthewoods]

25. you have that backwards

the US presented a proposal to the UN. the french said, quite publicly, that it wasn't acceptable. Powell then called for france to submit a counterproposal for discussion rather than offer simple editorial comment (loose quote). they did and that inspired Powell's comments.

if there was a tradition, as you describe, france is the one who broke with it, first.

[dbt]

4. The regime wants chaos EVERYwhere

Poppy's Dark Minions (and the even darker Ones who control him ) benefit mightily from keeping things in Iraq, Afghanistan and Murka in a total uproar because it covers what they're really doing.

The supposed presidency of Little George ain't about one thing other than putting unimaginable amounts of money into the hands of a very few people. It amounts to a fiscal scorched-earth policy. Poppy doesn't give shit one if there's nothing left after all the money has been extracted from Iraq, Afghanistan, the US or wherever. That will just be "the cost of doing business," won't it?

And the Whore Media will never take a critical look at any of this family's evil machinations; they will be too busy playing War.

:freak:
dbt

[indepat]

13. And chaos everywhere is an open invitation to terrorist acts which give

cover and excuse to suppress liberty, plunder, and otherwise implement their entire agenda.

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. Chaos Theory

I haven't read the book completely, but I've formulated my own ideas. It's an interesting concept which basically describes a system which disengages all the regulatory obstacles so that the most ruthless have opportunities to cannabalize a society. Currently it's being peddled in the U.S. as "the free market system." The thought is that allowing the greediest to operate in a society, untethered, will result in a trickle down effect that needs no other regulator, but the consumer.

The propaganda you hear is that in a free market world, the consumers set the market. It sort of does, in a way, because the amount of human suffering that this anarchist system creates destabilizes a society to the point where social disorder is imminent. And consumers WILL eventually do something about it. But by the time they do, the Halliburtons of the world have their two billion dollar profits and are already buying influence into the next system of government.

Iraq is a chaos theorist's greatest dream. Halliburton has taken its cut up front. But now we get to read the chapter that no free marketer wants us to read. The chapter about the toll on human suffering and the one that says that sooner or later, we all have to pay to re-stabilize the country.

[opihimoimoi]

9. The EVIDENCE LIES IN THE DIRECTION OF WHAT IS MISSING

what is not seen is any movement towards PEACE.

The Peace the Bushys want is a peace on their terms....thru the use of force.

True Peace takes maturity and comprehension of advanced peace making efforts. None evident thus far.

[cthrumatrix]

7. "control through chaos"....people think for themsleves with peace....

and this is dangerous for the people that would like to control others...

[OneTwentyoNine]

8. With Smirks falling numbers he needs and wants chaos...

Whether its in Iraq or the US it really is the only thing this "one trick pony" of a President has going for him. Every speech he gives is the same old "terra" mantra,to hell with the millions out of a job or national health care etc,etc. This is nothing new,he wanted chaos on 9/11,thats why fighter pilots were told to stand down.

David

[Drifter]

10. Yep ...

If everything was going as smoothly as they originally advertised, the American people would be screaming to bring the troops home. This would undoubtedly stop the flows of funds to AWOL donor corporations. AWOL realizes that as long as there is war, he can justify further debts for America (and profits for donor corporations).

Im pretty sure this is the plan that the Nazi's were following as well.

Cheers
Drifter

[Gin]

11. It's a windfall for profits....the same strategy is at work here...

we have been had...big time...they don't want peace...here or abroad.

[elfin]

12. Disagree but

even if they would rather that we be greeted with flowers and happy Iraquis - they will spin the chaos to suit their own evil purposes.

[Brucey]

23. I think you are right,

they would prefer that everyone saw things their way, but if it's chaos, then they will rationalize it. Facts never get in the way of rightwing theory - everything fits their rationalization.

[blindpig]

14. win/win

i don't think it really mattered to those fuckers whether order or chaos was the result of the invasion; as long as we had the oil fuck the cost in blood & treasure as those cost don't affect the coporate bottom line. we are being ruled by some really cold, evil bastards.

[Birthmark]

15. I think that you may all be missing the point.

Suppose that the Iraq war is a distraction to keep you from looking at what's being done here at home. Rigged voting machines, Patriot Act II, upward redistribution of wealth... Surely, some of these things would be examined by even the corporate-owned media if Iraq was not dominating the air time, wouldn't they?

[cthrumatrix]

16. totally agree..... except the distraction is backfiring on them .... or

just maybe they know they are toast so they are stealing blind from the americans and rewarding the corporations that rule our world.

Heck...if he get's thrwon out..that doesn't effect the $$$billions spent and lost.

[Birthmark]

17. Nah, it's not backfiring.

Just whip out the ol' "stay the course" rhetoric and make sure there is some sort of big media event "victory" when needed.

[AP]

22. The media is so complicit here that I think, even without Iraq, they

wouldn't turn their eyes towards reality unless they were told they could by Bush.

[jumptheshadow]

18. I disagree

The chaos is eroding Bush's power base. So many of his supporters believed Iraq would be a "cakewalk" and would last as long as his daddy's war. That speech the other night was a jolt to them. They are separating from Bush.

This administration is every bit as incompetent as we think they are. Bush is realizing what a screw-up he is. He's disintegrating right in front of us.

[poskonig]

19. Makes sense if Iran needs the smackdown.

This would also explain why the US has been so bullheaded about keeping the UN out. I'll put on the hat. :tinfoilhat: Iran has been accelerating their nuclear program so they can give warheads to Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Hezbollah and detonate them God knows where. If we may have to go to war in a few months, having a strong military presence in Iraq makes a lot of sense.

[AP]

20. There are two stages in which Haliburton will get money

and the first stage is the chaos stage. The second stage is the oil production stage.

They are maximizing the chaos stage profits by having lots of chaos. If things were going smootly, would Bush be able to ask Congress for 87 bil? No.

The other way chaos pays off is that oil is the fuel for increasingly competitive economies in Russia, India, China and Europe. Big US companies and RW geopolitical interests are threatened by efficient growth of those economies. So the US wants to sabotage those economies by having chaos in the ME (and if it raises prices for oil, as it has) that means more profits for Houston, which is good for Bush.

By controlling the third largest reserves of oil in the world, whether it's in the chaos stage or the post-chaos stage, the RW'ers in the US will control the spigot for economic growth in the Europe and Asia. This means they're making sure that their profits stay high and that they get a huge cut from whatever growth they allow in Europe and Asia. (Incidentally, this is why it was so important for Europe to have at least one nation with some say, or oversight, or first-hand information on what's going on in Iraq.)

[Donna Zen]

24. Monkey utterings:

In "Bush at War" the monkey is quoted near the end of the book as saying, and I must paraphrase not wanting to ever buy that spew: Chaos creates a vacuum and you can then fill it with whatever you want.

Thoughts from IF Stone:

War is a six trillion dollar business and if you think they want peace, you are crazy.

Governments lie