Democrats against Dean

[virtualobserver]

If Democrats like Kerry, Lieberman, and Gephardt had fought as hard against Bush over the last 2 1/2 years as they are fighting now against Howard Dean, we wouldn't be in the trouble that we are currently in now.

Thankfully, Dean was able to show them that you could oppose Bush and survive politically. Now, it is fashionable to attack Bush.

Gephardt makes me the sickest, because I've had the pleasure of watching him collaborate with both Reagan and Dubya, and then had to watch his position change as the economic and political winds shifted.

Without Dean, the Democrats would have barely put up a fight.

[Brucey]

1. I agree, though it is part of the process,

and can be helpful. Whoever the leader is will take heat. But that't okay since it's good to learn how to deal with heat because it will be hell running against the repug criminals who will do anything and everything to keep their stolen booty.

[virtualobserver]

3. I agree...

I'm not complaining about the attacks. I'm just sorry that the rest of the party needed a "how-to" in order to stand up to Bush.

[gully]

2. Your damn straight! n/m

[Feanorcurufinwe]

4. What a joke

Some folks in this country and in this party would rather have a campaign, primaries, and election than a coronation.

[virtualobserver]

25. I think ya' missed the point....

why didn't they take Bush on.

[liberalnurse]

5. As I see it...

Dean capitlized on the anti-Iraq sentiment in this country. He spoke for me thats for sure. Then, Graham began nailing *bush on WMD's; His position gave it so much credibility and others began to question too.

Dean has been the leader and remains so. He is taking intolerable abuse from every angle. Make no mistake, he is the standard that all others are being measured.

Dean 2004.

[no name no slogan]

7. I respectfully disagree

IMO, Dean succeed in getting the media's (and suburban middle class's) attention as "the anti-war" candidate. And that didn't even happen until February. At one point he wanted a 60-day waiting period before delivering the ultimatum

While Gov. Dean was making stump speeches, Dennis Kucinich and his allies in the Congressional Progressive Caucus were rallying opposition to the use of force resolution last fall. While Dennis' speech against the war was covered on C-SPAN, he was not able to go out and campaign on it, as he has a job to do in congress. Bob Graham also voted against the use of force, but like Kucinich also has a job to do, too.

Dean definately capitalized on the sentiment, and made sure he was visible. However, he didn't start the movement. He's a johnny-come-lately who saw an opportunity, and took it.

Those of us who have been active in the anti-Iraq-war movement since the early 90s are aware of this, and can see straight through him.

And we certainly won't forget it during the primaries and caucuses.

[JohnKleeb]

8. what amazes me is that Congressman Kucinich

http://www.kucinich.us/speeches/speech1.htm
He was against the idea of war in Feburary 2002.
Also he actually spoke at a rally against the war although he was an active congressman. We took time some of us to protest this illegal war and so did Dennis. Not only was he a key member of the charge against it in congress.

[virtualobserver]

12. if the others had the courage and intelligence and committment...

of Kucinich, we wouldn't be in this mess.

If Kucinich does not win the presidency, I would like to see him as speaker of the house (assuming we take back the house).

[JohnKleeb]

17. that would be great

but some of us look forward to President Kucinich thank you for your kind words though. Kucinich is a dedicated congressman.

[virtualobserver]

18. I will be as happy as you if Kucinich wins.....

and I will take his leadership wherever I can get it.

[JohnKleeb]

20. thanks

Kucinich really is the best on the issues and have you heard his life story? its one that will make you weep yet be proud of how this man who lived in 21 places by 17 yet put himself through school and became a city councilman at 23. He also has more experience than Shrub lol I know its not that big of a deal and more foriegn policy experience as well. So although hes only been a congressman since '96 he is quite experienced. He also ran for congress when he was 26 in 1972. He is amazing. He doesnt quit either. How he was viewed after he was mayor of Cleveland is telling of that, you see he made a good decision although most didnt realize it but then they did and he is widely respected.

[liberalnurse]

11. Well, thats how it was for me....

.

[pasadenaboy]

13. I think you have a point, but

Dean was smart and or cunning enough to get the media attention and grass roots organizing that the others who opposed the war were not.

I support both Graham and Kucinich's opposition to the war, and would have no problem with either one of them being president. But to win an election, and a nomination, you have to be able to control the media, and I don't think either one of them can, and accordingly, neither one of them can be president until they learn how to do that.

[JohnKleeb]

16. pasedena its kinda hard to know how Dennis would be with the media

if they gave him some attention we would know. I think Kucinich made a great stand against the war. He has had many great stands and in fact he worked hard to get Al Gore the state of Ohio unfortunely it didnt work but he is a hard worker.

[Eloriel]

6. Abso-damn-lutely

And thank God for him!

Eloriel

[ElkHunter]

9. Without Dean, the Democrats would have barely put up a fight.

And to find evidence of this fact all one has to do is take a look back at the 2002 mid-term elections. Gephardt's leadership as House minority leader was pathetic.

[JohnKleeb]

10. what about Kucinich

He came out against the war in Feburary 2002. That said good for Dean but Kucinich was fighting as well.

[virtualobserver]

14. you are right, John

and he proved his leadership by organizing the majority of Democrats against the IWR, didn't he?

[JohnKleeb]

15. I dont have the stats with me

but the fact of the matter is he tried his best to organize the house dems against the war resolution. I think what he did was very good.

[no name no slogan]

21. VERY good, considering the odds

He managed to get 2/3 of the Democrats in the House to vote against the resolution, although he had to fight against his own party's leadership to do so (Gephardt & co.). It's truly unfortunate that he doesn't get the attention he deserves for doing this.

OTOH, being "under the radar" CAN be a good thing, too. When I worked on the Wellstone '90 campaign, it was PERPETUALLY under the radar. It was short on cash but long on ideas and energy. The polls always said Paul were down, even up to the week before the election, when they finally pulled their heads out of the sand.

Kucinich's campaign has that same Wellstonian feel to it. Even the issues are the same. Everybody's paying attention to the wicked stepsisters, while Cinderella is still scrubbing the floor. This race is FAR from over-- anybody who says otherwise is in for a big suprise! :)

[liberalnurse]

23. Yes he was; like a wheel in the spoke....

He just didn't get the respect and attention for his views. He has frequently been marginalized by his peers. During the media frenzie and *bush battle pre-game hype his assessment of the "state of the country" was smothered out.

His message was of the right fight but no one could stop the greedy and blood thirsty regime.

[JohnKleeb]

24. I know and that saddens me you know

I am glad Dean and Kucinich both stood up to this illegal and wrong war.

[TheDonkey]

19. It's a bit overreaching to say DEAN made all this possible...

Dean, Kucinish, YellowcakeGate, Iraq's failings, Bush's approval drops, and many other smaller incidents all helped to create an enviroment that made Bush bashing more media friendly and acceptable.

Dean was the first to bash bush on Iraq but that did little for his campaign as it was still floundering. It wasn't until his $$$ rang up and Bush's approval dropped did the media and in turn people start paying attention.

[JohnKleeb]

22. when did Dean first give Bush hell on Iraq

I dont care really. its Kucinich dont worry about it I myself spelled it wrong and pronounced it wrong too, and even DK himself, lol he has a good sense of humor about it, go to his website and he pronounces it for you lol. Kucinich first attacked the idea of war with Iraq on Feburary 17, 2002 in the beautiful prayer for America.

[TheDonkey]

29. I believe a lot helped make this season Anti-Bush season.

Not one canidate, or one event. But those like Dean and Kucinich (I hope that's right :)) should be patted on the back for sticking to their guns, but I believe the media and American public has made it possible for Gephart to now say "miserable failure" and not be lynched.

If he would of said that in 2002 he would have been destroyed. The time we are in now is a much different enviroment for anti-bush sentiment than a year or so ago (thankfully!).

[JohnKleeb]

30. Yeah you got the spelling right

Of course speaking out has helped.

[janx]

26. Dean didn't make it all possible, but he DID strike a match

under the other candidates. There's no doubt about it. Some supporters of the other candidates are still mad as hell about it too, but they shouldn't be.

We must do everything we can to get rid of Chimpy and not be embarrassed about doing it.

[Tinoire]

27. Over-reaching = putting it mildly- Kucinich is the true orignal anti-Bush

Kucinich gave Bush hell on Iraq long before it became fashionable to.

He's been giving Bush hell ever since Afghanistan. Ever since Bush waltzed in to be perfectly honest.

He has currently been speaking out against Syria, Iran and a lucrative occupation.

-
Published in the March 25, 2002 issue of The Nation
Kucinich Rocks the Boat
by John Nichols


Recalling the Congressional vote authorizing the President's response to the September 11 terrorist attacks--a resolution supported by Kucinich and all but one member of Congress, California Democrat Barbara Lee--the Ohioan thundered, "We did not authorize an eye for an eye. Nor did we ask that the blood of innocent people, who perished on September 11, be avenged with the blood of innocent villagers in Afghanistan. We did not authorize the Administration to wage war anytime, anywhere, anyhow it pleases. We did not authorize war without end. We did not authorize a permanent war economy. Yet we are upon the threshold of a permanent war economy."

Kucinich's "Prayer for America" speech was interrupted by repeated standing ovations. But the real measure of the message's resonance came as the text of the speech circulated on the Internet--where a genuine worldwide web of opposition to the Administration's actions led to the posting of Kucinich's words on websites (including www.thenation.com) and dispatched them via e-mail. Within days, Kucinich received 10,000-plus e-mails. Many echoed New Jerseyan Thomas Minet's sentiments: "Since the 'Axis of Evil' State of the Union Address, I have been searching like Diogenes with his lantern for one honest person in Congress who would have the guts to speak out about the attack on Democracy being mounted by the Bush Administration. It has been a frustrating search indeed, and I was just about ready to give up hope when I ran across 'A Prayer for America.' Thank God for this man's courage." Others simply read, "Kucinich for President."

<snip>

Kucinich was not the first Congressmember to express concern about Bush's plans. Lee cast her cautionary vote in September. In October, responding to reports of civilian casualties in Afghanistan, Representative Jim McDermott criticized the speed with which the Administration had taken military action and the failure of the White House to adequately consult Congress. In December, Kucinich, McDermott and Lee joined five other House Democrats in signing a letter to Bush, written by Representative Tammy Baldwin, which noted, "We are concerned by those in your Administration and among our own ranks in the Congress who appear to be making the case for broad expansion of this military campaign beyond Afghanistan. Without presenting clear and compelling evidence that other nations were involved in the September 11 attacks, it is inappropriate to expand the conflict." Another letter, by Representative Peter DeFazio, called on the White House to comply with the War Powers Resolution before expanding the war. In February Senator Robert Byrd said that Congress should no longer hand the President a "blank check." Senate majority leader Tom Daschle suggested the war "will have failed" without the capture of Osama bin Laden--a statement rebuked by Republicans, who want no measure of success or failure applied to this war.

But Kucinich's speech was a clarion call. "For most people, Kucinich's speech represents the clearest Congressional criticism they have heard about the conduct of the war, and of the Administration's plans to expand it. That's enormously significant," said Midge Miller, who helped launch Senator Eugene McCarthy's antiwar challenge to President Lyndon Johnson in 1967. "Citizens look for Congressional opposition to organize around--they look for leaders to say something. When I read Kucinich's speech, I thought, This could be a turning point."

<snip>

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0308-01.htm

May he reap the rewards of having been one of the orignal true courageous lone voices!

[JohnKleeb]

28. Whoa yet another reason

to hold this little man with the biggest heart in high esteem. Thank you Dennis Kucinich for your brilliant stands. Reminds me of a quote I made up, "Even in the darkest of circumstances there remains a thread of honor", thats DK. He is a fighter, he has in a way the qualities of several of the great heroes of the past yet he has his own unique qualities and issues. He is something to be proud of.

[shance]

31. V/O you are a man/woman after my own heart****

Great points.

Thanks!

[CWebster]

32. Damn straight

.

[newsguyatl]

33. AMEN to that!

thank GOODNESS we have DEAN fighting for US!!