Howard Dean sounds pro-terrorism

[MaverickX]

Dean actually said: "there is a war going on in the Middle East, and members of Hamas are soldiers in that war, and, therefore, it seems to me that they are going to be casualties if they are going to make war."

The American people are going to vote for this Hamas apologist?

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/10/elec04.prez.dean.mideast/

[whirlygigspin]

1. not only that

Dean forces his wife and kids to eat pork and secretly
likes to dress up like Eva Braun in heels and sing showtunes.

[Brucey]

5. too funny,

where do you come up with that stuff?

[liberalnurse]

10. Thanks, we needed a good laugh!

:bounce:

[shance]

2. Great post here Mav! *** The checks in the mail!

God how pathetic is this post! Reflections of your character no doubt.

Okay, We got it. You cant win on merit or quality, when all else fails you start the cheap lie strategy off of page 526 in the Republican/Republican lite handbook.

Get a life or start doing something worthwhile so you dont have to post such baseless rumors.

[uptohere]

17. its not a rumor

toward the bottom...

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/10/elec04.prez.dean.mideast/

[MaverickX]

27. I posted a link to

the statement.

[bearfartinthewoods]

30. the statement is his but your interpretation is, shall we say......

unique.

[MaverickX]

34. not really...

The difference between terrorists and soldiers are legitimacy of targets, Dean is too stupid to get this.

[cprise]

57. Let's talk about soldiers' targets:

* The bombing of Dresden

* The bombing of Laos

* The bombing of Cambodia

There are more.

These targets are not military: They are whole cities or countries!

Looks like we need to get some legitimacy.

[uptohere]

35. hardly unique

I'm waiting for this to take off a bit ala the "Dean Depression".

[w13rd0]

3. *yawn*

Do you also flail desperately while drowning?

Oh, and it's not a 'rumor'. Howard Dean actually said that, in response to a question concerning the 'targetted killing' of members of Hamas. So, when you yank it out of context and present it with an inflamatory title, it's got more 'umph'. Granted, it's also a bald-face Bush-style lie, but what the hell, the American people are used to being lied to by Washington politicians...

[trumad]

7. Nah... He just sinks

[liberalnurse]

4. As I see it....culturally speaking.....

I often hear the term soldier in reference to the Palistinian's and Hamas. Why not? They are at war with Israel....just because they have limited weapon options and have resort to suicide bombs don't make them anyless a soldier of the cause. If they had F-16's they'd use them instead.

[MaverickX]

15. oh yes

Hamas murders Jewish civilians and they are just soldiers. Calling them soldiers gives them legitimacy.

[CWebster]

22. Now, the refuseniks

they are soldiers worthy of respect. The rest take orders from a terrorist state.

[MaverickX]

29. another classic statement from you...

Equating the US military with Hamas. You're intelligent :)

[wuushew]

33. But the U.S. IS a terrorist state

we more than any other nation have sponsored terrorism over the last fifty years. What were our noble goals in Chile? These facts are not in doubt.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[no name no slogan]

54. Why debate?

when you can namecall. Why not try to figure out what's right when you can march unquestionably in lockstep to what you're spoonfed by your government?

If that's the case, the terrorists have already won. :puke:

[MaverickX]

59. I bet you cheered

When Jews were killed in Schlinder's list. Sig Heil.

[w13rd0]

52. Actualy...

...the refuseniks are ISRAELI MILITARY, not US MILITARY. But that's ok, it seems that out of context and ill-informed aren't things you have a problem with...

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[w13rd0]

61. Pardon me?

I point out that the refuseniks are Israeli military rather than US military, and your response to me is, "Go gas some Jews you Nazi pig"? Wow, you are a real class act.

[no name no slogan]

49. Well, hate to say it

but the IDF also murders innocent Palestinians. Why aren't they labeled as "terrorists"?

In a war, the first casualty is the truth. Labels are just labels. Who the hell cares what we call each other? For one side to claim the moral high ground is hypocracy of the highest order.

The truth is we need a broker with no biases, and no ties to either side (this includes the PLO as well as AIPAC). The only HONEST broker is one who has nothing to gain from the outcome, other than peace.

Get the UN involved, get honest mediation started, and STOP everyone else from sabotaging the process. Get Israel to obey the UN resolutions it has consistantly violated. Disband and disarm the terrorist organizations-- on BOTH sides. This includes Hamas suicide bombers as well as Israeli "settlers" who kill Palestinian civilians.

Until this happens, we're still going to have "terrorism" on both sides.

[MaverickX]

53. please show me

Where IDF has targetted innocent Palestinians. Kids throwing rocks deserve a bullet.

[liberalnurse]

63. Yes, I understand that.....

and thats what they are....Jews kill Palestinians and vice versa...its a war....they are soldiers to the Plaestinians just as they are soldiers for the Israelis......

[shance]

60. Yes Israelis have F-16s and anything else they want...they just have to

ask Uncle Sammy and then the Israelis get to go back and play war on the Palestinians. Isnt that cool??

[Capn Sunshine]

6. Really, is that the best you have?

Hamas apologist? Because he says they're going to die?
I guess Dean is going to win this walking away.

Oh, Karl Rove called. He needs his talking points back.

[uptohere]

8. whiule I understand the statement and its not as you suggest

at least in the good doctor's mind, it is a turn of phrase that will not sit well with many people.

The UN deems Hamas a terrorist organization so to characterize them as mearly soldiers in the Palestinian "war" is not consistant with world opinion. Of course that is exactly how they see themselves and in light of his recent stance of being the "fair broker" for peace in the area he probably wants to tone down the rhetoric.

I don't think I would have advised him to say these things but he seldom calls me for policy advice.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

9. Heh -- DEAN Is NOT a Hamas Apologist

I had some concerns about his quote as well, as you can see here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=329734

My feeling now, after talking it out with a couple of reasonable folks, is that the context of this comment is Dean suggesting Hamas members are legitimate TARGETS.

And I'm fine with that.

Now, some of Dean's SUPPORTERS here are definitely Hamas apologists. But please don't take that out on the good doctor!

DTH

[liberalnurse]

18. Hello!

Dove Turned Vulcher.... I'm impressed on how concerned you are. Great feedback, so informative and enlightening.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

25. Wow, You Made Fun of My Screen Name!

How incredibly clever and cutting! What grade are you in, again?

I am trying to point Mav to another discussion regarding this issue, one that I happened to find compelling enough to change my own mind. Sorry if that bugs you for some incredibly bizarre reason.

Dean rocks!

DTH

[Resistance]

44. great

you and Mav gonna both cry about "leftist nitwits" in the other discussion too?

[MaverickX]

51. you doves are the vultures..

You take advantage of our military defending our nation and then spout pacifistic bs.

[lumpy]

62. Defending our nation ?

Against what? A nation called Iraq who has the capabilties of nuking us in 45 minutes, has tons of WMDs ready to go, and a well equiped army filled with AlQueda fanatics, and ready to take away our 'freedoms', jealous bastards ? I guess they are wishing they had that capability before Bushco screwed them up royally. Hurray for the red, white and blue, American patriot !

[disgruntella]

11. now this is a thread with lots of potential!

[Cocoa]

26. lol

:-)

[MaverickX]

12. oh of course..

Dean says Hamas are just soldiers at war and I'm the bad guy. And we wonder why people hate Democrats. Dean is just another Hamas apologist.

[Cha]

16. You don't have a clue.

[MaverickX]

21. oh I got you..

Anyone who calls these butchers terrorists doesn't have a clue.

[StandWatie]

23. you are uninformed..

you spout off about things that aren't true in some sort of zealous mission to "support Israel" because you think they are true, but you aren't a bad guy you are just either paranoid or sort of dense.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[StandWatie]

40. oh, I can read

and I remember you "idiot" it's not me who gets caught up all the time making up bullshit about Israel.

[MaverickX]

43. I haven't made up a single thing..

Just didn't spout your Arab propaganda.

[StandWatie]

47. really?

Just this morning you were droning on about UN Resolutions about Blood Libel, right?

Found that one yet?

I don't need propaganda, I actually know what the hell I'm talking about.

[budmo]

13. Oh Please!

Dean is no apologest for Hamas. He may not have articulated properly the first time(which is admittedly something he needs to work on) but you can't really believe that he is taking sides with the Pals on this. He wants to be an honest broker for peace. Something that GWB and his cohorts are not able or willing to do. Dean's wife is Jewish for Gods sake...think about it...how is it that we choose to assume such sensationalism without really thinking it through. Don't buy into the desperation of the Lieberman campaign. And by the way, I repect the fact that Dean didn't through his wife's religon into the mix that night as a defense. That showed me that was willing to work the misunderstanding out without a bailout by his wifes back ground....something Lieberman wouldn't do. He's already played the wife card once in the debates...I'm sure we'll hear it again.

[janx]

14. Sure.

[MaverickX]

19. Freerepublic..

Thinks Lieberman is a terrorist apologist.

[janx]

37. No, they think Dean is one and have devoted a whole thread

to the subject.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/981293/posts

Join them! You'll fit right in.

[MaverickX]

39. yawn...

Hating Dean doesn't make me a Freeper. Running Dean would play right into the GOPs hands.

[Resistance]

45. yeah well

us "leftist nitwits" are dumb like that y'know.

[gristy]

20. Huh??

To prove your point, good job picking out one of 4 relevant quotes.

And with regard to the quote you reported, when you also show the reporter's question (which you didn't) it becomes clear that when Dean refers to "casualties", he is clearly refering to Hamas and other militant groups. NOT civilians.

From the article:

Dean also said he would "strongly speak out against violence of any kind in the Middle East. That's what I mean by being even-handed." (More on violence)

"You must condemn all civilian killings, including any terrorist attacks," he said.

...

Asked if he would oppose the Israeli policy of selectively killing leaders of Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups, Dean said, "I think no one likes to see violence of any kind."

But he also said that "there is a war going on in the Middle East, and members of Hamas are soldiers in that war, and, therefore, it seems to me that they are going to be casualties if they are going to make war."

[MaverickX]

24. ok then...

He's not a Hamas apologist he's just stupid.

[jonnyblitz]

28. ummm...that comment makes sense and is reasonable

I guess some of us dont have a one sided view of the situation like you and your friends at AIPAC do....

[MaverickX]

32. oh christ...

Yeah sure, only right-wing Israelis consider Hamas terrorists. When in doubt blame the Jews.

[Resistance]

48. where did Jonnyblitz

"blame the Jews"

[salin]

31. Pelosi and Dean find agreement on Israel

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=111861

[LizW]

41. Is there a limit on how many people we can put on "ignore"?

'Cause my list is getting a little lengthy.:crazy:

[Doomsayer13]

42. I sure hope not

this guy's my numero uno

[whirlygigspin]

55. I want to remind everyone

that Israel created hamas.

Clean up your own mess and stop trying to fuck up America.

[gristy]

46. This thread is now locked

DUers are advised that it should now be allowed to sink into oblivion.

[lumpy]

50. This is the most ridiculous thread yet.

Some people have difficulty comprehending what they read I know, but this is beyond comprehension, merely a not-well-thought-out slam against Dean. Just because Dean is not sucking up to Israel is no reason to get the tail in a knot. Israel would be better off if the I/P situation were handled with common sense and even handedness.

[lazarus]

58. flamebait, duplicate

etc. This subject has been hashed out plenty, and this thread is nothing but flamebait.

Locking.

Lazarus, DU moderator