Xians pretty much dominate everything in the US...

[Modem Butterfly]

Just about everything caters to Xians in this country. Why then do they demand more concessions from society and why are complaints about persecution so common?

[ananda]

1. because

Enough is never enough?

They're extremists, fanatics, remember?

Sue

[arwalden]

20. Bingo.

[progmom]

2. My main complaint is

...the assholes claiming to be Christians who are doing all the complaining. They're driving a wedge between us all, and it's pissing me off.

[Modem Butterfly]

3. Yeah, that is annoying

But I think they're still Xians, just a different kind of Xian. They're adhereants of the First Church of Assholery.

[progmom]

4. Agreed.

And they are the ones who get all the press.


Pisses me off.

[TheModernTerrorist]

7. sounds a lot like

what is going on with the Muslim world, along with every other religion.

[datasuspect]

9. progmom

luv ya and all, but they ARE christians. they accept jesus christ as their personal lord and savior and are annointed in his blood.

i spent lots of time in pentecostal circles and they are more mainstream than you might realize.

[progmom]

10. And I love you, datasuspect.

They follow a form of Christianity which as far as I can tell doesn't have much to do with Christ's teachings.

The people who scream about "their personal lord and savior" tend to be highly suspect to me -- and I am really really really pissed off that their bullshit has affected the way all Christians are perceived.

[datasuspect]

12. there are more of them than there are people like you.

and yes, i accept them as christians. some of them are very well-intentioned and do try to help others and live in concert with the teachings of christ, but they are politicized, and they are dangerous.

if you call yourself a christian, i can only identify a person as such, especially if they have given their life and soul to jesus.

[MuseRider]

16. They are making

the rest of us look bad. I am a bad christian I guess. I do not do church and don't like the organized part of the religion but still, I am beginning to hear from a few others who are not liking the way they are no being seen. A trend I hope continues.

[sniffa]

5. as a white maLe, i sympathize with them

it's so hard to get by in this country being enfranchised. :cry:

[SCDem]

6. Because we are not a complete theocracy yet

It isn't PC yet to say that we are going to war against non Xtian heathens.

It isn't PC yet to say we should not have a welfare state because if you are not rich you have not tried hard enough and God didn't make you rich.

I could go on and on

Scary thing is we are almost at this point.

[Discord]

30. Now we just use codewords and talking points to say the

same thing.

morals, culture-of-life, values, so on and so forth

[jonnyblitz]

8. they want it ALL!

stand by because your thread will no doubt be alerted on. don't forget to check the ATA because somebody is bound to complain there, too. just saying...

[progmom]

13. hey jonnyblitz

it's been a tough week here, hasn't it?

i am really looking forward to meeting you in Boston, and hope that our differences of opinion on Christianity don't influence the way you and i feel about each other.

[jonnyblitz]

25. oh NO!

you one of "THEM" :scared: seriously almost all my friends are christian, why would you say that?? many people who you probably percieve as taking "the other side" here in the "discussions" are christians also, believe it or not. you assume I dont like christians. all i say is I dont think ANY belief system is above scrutiny or debate. others beg to differ (over and over and over).

I ALSO don't like people telling me I can't voice my true feelings about falwell because I have to meet their "christian" standards and rise above it. its getting. fucking. old. I guess I need a progressive site to post on and stop hanging out at church here.

[progmom]

29. oh no - you read more into my post than i meant for you to

>>you assume I dont like christians<<

I didn't mean that at all.

I was reaching my hand out in friendship. I'm sorry if you thought it was a slap.

[jonnyblitz]

31. we might both be "misreading" each other.

but you didnt have to say any of it to begin with. I guess i feel bad that you felt you had to say what u said. :hug:

[sniffa]

19. me-f'n-ow

:loveya:

[Az]

11. There is a lot in our society that is a threat to fundamentalists

They happen to believe that the world should be made to comply with their beliefs. Yet progressive society continues to move forward and change definitions of morality. They are desperate to stop this progress as they believe it is corruption.

Science continues to pound on the foundations of their beliefs. Education teaches their children that they may be mistaken about their beliefs.

Diversity introduces their kids to new ways of thinking. Threatening the hold their belief has on them. Threatening their immortal soul.

They really do believe they are threatened in this society. They are desperate and feel as though they are losing their hold. Thus they react with anger. They try to force their position. And their fear has given them a voice that they are using to take power in the government. It may actually be that they can reverse the trends of our society and stop progress. We just have to keep up the struggle and make sure that people see reason as the more reliable means of addressing problems.

[Dhalgren]

14. Because, at bottom, Christians know the secret of the universe

and everyone else is wrong. Anyone who believes other than in Jesus Christ as their personal savior is doomed to an eternity of damnation. The only true religion is one that holds that Jesus Christ died for the sins of mankind and all other religions are false and godless.

When you start from that premise, it is hard to discuss religion and philosophy and politics without that superiority bleeding through. All of us doomed non-believers are to be pitied and shunned at best and at worse...well, you get the idea...

[Auntie Bush]

15. Don't laugh...Just exactly who are Xians and what is their belief?

[Modem Butterfly]

17. Followers of Christ

Xians is shorhand for Christians, Xianity is shorthand for Christianity. It's an old-fashioned way of avoiding having to write out Christian everytime you're trying to write Xian.

[Auntie Bush]

23. Ahhh thanks, You mean like Merry Xmas? I should have known!

[tubbacheez]

18. Not all Christians demand such things. Those that do...

... currently hold a disproportionate amount of political clout though.

[ChickMagic]

21. You must read this

This has been my favorite for years.

http://www.infidels.org/misc/humor/lioaca.html

Here's a few to get you started:

I'm certainly glad this has finally been brought out into the open. The anti-Christian bias in our society has reached absurd proportions. Consider:

During the 1988 election campaign, George Bush said that Christians should not be considered patriots or real American citizens.

Bill Clinton steadfastly refuses to give any speeches at local churches.

Both major political parties are dominated by anti-Christians. The Republican party, for example, gave us such hard-core atheists as Pat Buchanan, Dan Quayle, Phyllis Schlafly and Ronald Reagan. And the Democrats have given us such personalities as the Rev. Martin Luther King and the Rev. Jesse Jackson-- both noted for their vicious attacks on all forms of Christianity.

Let's talk about the media. On Sunday mornings, nearly all major television channels broadcast pro-atheist shows; it is nearly impossible to find religious programming during that time period. Further, Madalyn Murray O'Hair has her own cable TV channel, while Pat Robertson has been unable to obtain one for himself.

[pilgrimsoul]

22. Because they think they are entitled to preferential status

They presume that everything they believe is THE standard that everyone else should be forced to accept. They believe deep down that their entire belief system is superior to those of non-Xtians. That is why they cannot tolerate anyone challenging their perceived moral "authority" by insisting on civil rights for *everyone* and why they are so determined to make the rules for us all. It infuriates them when people do what they want and are happy and seem to get along just fine without the religion they've built their lives around -- in their minds, everyone should NEED God. They can't understand why some of us don't.

[progmom]

24. you mean fundies, right?

[pilgrimsoul]

27. Yes - I mean JUST fundies

Not true Christians who actually follow the tenets of the Christian faith.

[Behind the Aegis]

26. It is their way

..or the highway! Some are as bad as the gay bashers who claim they are the real victim because the "vile, evil" homo was going to hit on them! Thus their violent "pre-strike" was warranted!

It is like this: everyone is equal, but some are MORE equal. And as long as our rights don't infringe on their religious right to discriminate, then all is well. As long as their traditions as respected above all others, then all is well. As long as they think that they can "pray for us lost souls," then all is well. AND, as long as WE are expected to have a thicker skin than them, all is well!

Sound bitter? Well, after the past few days here and hearing just how hard they have it in the US and at DU...I HAVE HAD IT! You know who the Christians are that are oppressed...the ones who don't shove it down our throats! Know who oppresses them? Other "Christians!"

Rant suspended until next thread about persecuted Christians appears today.

[Modem Butterfly]

32. Good point

"You know who the Christians are that are oppressed...the ones who don't shove it down our throats! Know who oppresses them? Other "Christians!"

[ultraist]

28. For the same reason

people minimize racism, sexism and homophobia. They want to hold onto their privileged status and power. As MLK Jr said in his Letter from Birmingham Jail, power holders do not willingly give up their power.

They don't want to level the playing field or achieve real equality, lest they wouldn't be whining about being persecuted.

[CornField]

33. Their religious beliefs have a built-in persecution need

Anyone can be a Christian... anyone at all. The really good Christians, however, are the ones who stand toe-to-toe with dissent and still profess their faith.

Now, combine this with their mandate to witness (read: to get in other people's faces). It use to be that a fellow would wear a cross on his neck and carry his Bible. That was witnessing: making yourself open and available to anyone who might be seeking. (I want to add here that most of the Christians I'm friends with remain in this category.)

Being 'available' is no longer quite enough. Now they have bumperstickers, chrome fishes, t-shirts with Jesus slogans, and more. Each of these items allows the Christian to witness his/her faith. Each of these items also allow the Christian to be more open to persecution. (Which, as long as the person continues to believe, is a great thing.)

Let me put it another way... Let's say that tomorrow we wake up and discover there is no terrorist threat to our nation. What do you think would happen to all the little plastic flags on the cars? What about the sales of patriotic t-shirts, hats and so-forth? What types of questions do you think people would start asking about 9-11 and the war in Iraq?

Fear works just as well as enthusiasm to hold a group together --- and it typically works for longer periods of time. If the Christians woke up tomorrow and realized that they were the majority and that no one was out to get them, they might start to question instead of cowering into a corner of their church.

[MadHound]

34. Because this rift has been planned, and is being carried out

For hundreds of years, racism was used to divide the lower classes of people against each other, thus making them easier to control by those at the top. This occurred after Bacon's rebellion scared the shit out of the ruling elite. Bacon's Rebellion occurred in 1676, and it was a general revolt by those of the lower class, indentured white slaves and black slaves, who made common cause against the excesses of the ruling elite. After the rebellion was put down, the ruling elite figured that they needed to employ the divide and conquor ploy in order to retain power. Thus, they started freeing the white slaves, brutalizing blacks, and in general fostering a racial divide in the lower classes that was to last three hundred years.

Starting in the fifties and contiuing through the present day, the civil rights movement started to bridge that racial divide. The ruling elite started to realize the threat that this bridge was when MLK started speaking out about a mass movement of the entire lower class to demand justice from the ruling elite. The ruling elite, seeing the race ploy losing effectiveness, realized that they needed another ploy to keep the masses divided and at each others' throats. That is when they hit upon the idea of religion. Thus, from the start of the born again movement in the early seventies until now, the ruling elite has done everything it can to foster a religious divide in this country.

So now, instead of beating on each other about racial issues, we are beating each other up over religious issues. This has been a planned and staged act, one that is working. If we are to overthrow these ruling elites, we are going to have to find a way to bridge that religious divide, and unite with our fellow citizens in the overthrow of the ruling elite. To continue to beat each other up over an issue that, in the greater scope of things, is essentially a diversion is simply playing into the hands of the ruling elite. It allows the rich and powerful to acquire more wealth and power, while we grow weak and ineffective.

So rather than start beating up on the next fundie you see, instead, try to bridge that gap, to make common cause with them. In the process you can educate them, they can educate you, and together you will be a larger threat to the ruling elite than you are seperately.