Meet the newest DINO: Harold Ford, Jr.

[jos]

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20030915.shtml

Signs on to Social Security privatization, I'm sure he's ignorant of the fact that this is what the right-wing has been dreaming of since 1935. At best, he is a dupe. But for sure, he is a DINO.

[Bake]

1. That's a shame

Because I thought at one that he had potential. Lately he seems to be more Puke-lite.

Bake

[ElsewheresDaughter]

2. i already node that ...yup he use to just be in the shadows of repukes

sigh ...now he's walking in the darkness :scared:

[JanMichael]

3. Remember when some people here wanted him over Pelosi?

Interesting.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

4. JanMichael...yes, i remember the debates and how many ford supporters

argue for him over pelosi

[Mairead]

7. Exactly. Even when it was obvious to anyone--even Media Inc reported it!

that he's a DINO.

[Tinoire]

8. Yah I remember as well

Ford has always been one of the biggest Dino's out there. I book-marked those threads to save all the information about his positions. It takes more than a D after your name to be a real Dem!

[roughsatori]

11. In some Clark threads the other night (link added)

a few of the posters sounded like they were having orgasms over Ford speaking at an event. A few of the posters said they want Ford to be president someday. As I already think that many of the Clark supporters here seem rather conservative--this raised another red-flag. DINOs will be the death of the Democratic party if we don't stop them.

Edited to add the link: go down to: "How's that sexy Harry Ford?" post and read the replies. I added it before I was asked to prove Iwas not making it up: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=333961

[Tinoire]

13. Well... You said it.

This is something I noticed from the start. The biggest hawks on the Israel/Palestine issue and biggest conservatives were the ones shouting the loudest about what a Liberal and a Progressive Clark was.
Couple that with the fact that it was a DLC consultant, Chris Kofinis, (www.msnbc.com/news/945273.asp)who suggested the entire idea of "drafting" a total unknown and that the "draft" movement is co-founded and co-run by a Republican and a Democrat (http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/957432.asp?0cv=cb20).... hmmm... things that just make a Liberal go hmmmm.

[KittyWampus]

83. What A Load Of Crap

"The biggest hawks on the Israel/Palestine issue and biggest conservatives were the ones shouting the loudest about what a Liberal and a Progressive Clark was. "

First of all, it would first of seem most likely that the "biggest hawks on the I/P issue would be supporting Lieberman. Please excuse those of us who don't accept your "observation" as being valid. As someone who might be interested in Clark, I totally reject your assertion as a falsehood and suspect you'd be hard pressed to come up with more than a few aberrant examples of your bullshit.
There are only a very few I/P hawks on this forum.

Secondly, It's amazing how many DEAN supporters have been "the ones shouting the loudest about what a Liberal and a Progressive" THEIR candidate is when IN FACT he was a DLC'er and IS CURRENTLY an ex Governor with a moderate record.

[jos]

15. If he's so "sexy"

Maybe he'll bail for Hollywood. We can only hope!

[oasis]

21. Much has been made about Gephardt's appearance w/Bush

in the Rose Garden praising the Iraq invasion vote. Ford got a pass because he lurked in the background in the shadow of the canope.

[roughsatori]

25. You are right, I forgot that

I wrote a letter to Gephardt expressing my anger and shame about his appearance. I should have written one to Ford and others as well.

[tjdee]

49. Here I am, and he's still sexy.

I don't remember thinking that he was the perfect Democrat, or saying so.

He's got some issues, but he's still awful cute.

I'd still like to see him on a ticket someday--he's awfully young.

Who knows, in 10 years he may disavow his statements on social security, just like Howard Dean!
}(

[TahitiNut]

71. Uh-huh. Ted Bundy was 'cute' too.

:eyes:

[tjdee]

76. Oh for pete's sake.

It was an isolated comment I made in the other thread, and I'm just saying that opinion hasn't changed based on a social security position which may or may not be true as reported by Nofacts.

He's not Ted Bundy, :eyes: right back at ya.

[piece sine]

82. C'mon...

Harold has a far fresher face then Ted Bundy! He looks like Vanessa William's cute younger brother. With JFK Jr's untimely exit, Harold Ford is certain to the most handsome man on a dias in Boston. His confident, optimistic poise -- especially when juxtaposed in viewers eyes to the more strident lambastes of far less attractive pols -- give Harold a huge advantage in TV land. Huge! We can argue about his vapid stands all night, but we're talking seriously cute.

You don't need a masters in semiotics to grasp the power of physical beauty. Colin Powell has always been considered a handsome man....

[Pastiche423]

66. You caught that too?

It is strange that some of the more conservative DUers literally screech how liberal clark is.

[mot78]

80. Enough with the Clark-DLC Theories

Clark's NOT a DINO. Otherwise he'd be gunning to be Lieberman's veep.

[KittyWampus]

81. Clark Supporters Seem CONSERVATIVE?

How about providing some quotes from DU here just to illustrate?

[Robin Hood]

16. Yeah, and Pelosi has been a real winner...NOT!!

Furthermore... You trust everything that Novakula says? I'll believe it when it comes out of the horses mouth.

[JanMichael]

19. Don't particularly like her either, so?

Matter of fact I didn't have a horse in that cluster fuck decision.

[papau]

5. I called his office and left a message - I believe he needs to be flooded

with phone calls asking how taking out money currently available to SS to pay current retirees benefits, helps with the SS funding problems. Indeed there are no no funding problems since the in deficit in 2017 only means the rich will have to have increased taxes at that point so that the FIT tax can redeem the government bonds that are the "assets" of the SS system - and represent the money stolen by the rich so as to finance the Bush tax cuts for the rich. It is better to have the rich pay back the monies stolen, than to use the cover of some wall street fee producing diversion of the payroll tax as a way to justify reduced guranteed benefits to the young folk in the system.

Indeed when the system will need to reduce benefits - 2043 if continued bad GOP growth continues - the 30% reduction that raising the retirement age to 70 accomplishes is a more honest way to do so, and it avoids the expense of paying wall street to track money (current wall street charges mean money invested in short term guaranteed principal investments get a NEGATIVE return that actually decreases the principal - but that is better than the last 3 years stock market losses).

Washington, D.C.
P:[phone]
F: [phone]
325 Cannon House Office Building Washington, D.C. 20515

Memphis
P:[phone]
F:[phone]
The Federal Building
167 North Main, Suite #369
Memphis, Tennessee 38103

mailto:[e-mail]

[madfloridian]

6. Sen. Graham and Sen. Nelson, FL, agree to that as well.

They call it modernization.

[jos]

9. Do you have a link for that?

I almost positive that Graham is opposed to any privatization, and I'm not sure Nelson agrees with it either.

[GBD4]

67. Of course he's opposed to privatization

<<In Washington, three of Senator Bob Graham's top priorities are protecting Social Security from privatization, improving the health of Medicare beneficiaries and maintaining the financial strength of the Medicare program.

Senator Bob Graham believes that Social Security must remain a secure source of retirement income. He opposes efforts to create personal, "privatized" Social Security accounts.>>

http://www.grahamforpresident.com/issues/elder.html

[Clete]

10. Anyone thinking this party should split?

I mean shouldn't the DLC, the Libertarians and moderate Republicans really form one party and the Democrats and Greens another? I don't want to waste my liberal vote on someone like Lieberman or Harold Ford, Jr.

[jos]

12. You've got a point

If the party can't stand together against the privatization of social security, a pillor of its principles, what good is it?

[Tinoire]

14. This is getting really depressing

It's becoming clearer and clearer that this New Dem party stands for nothing... just stands against a few things.

[tom_paine]

18. Not true, the New DEm Party seems to stand for quite a few things

Caution.

Cowardice.

Being afraid of the Right-Wing Sub-Media.

Believing that the Right-Wing Sub-Media is a normal media with fact-checking and error-correcting apparatus like the Formerly Free Press.

Utilizing Bushevik talking ponts taken almost verbatim from Uncle Karl's handbook (stupid or malevolent seems to be the choices here) to slam the Left-Wing of the Democratic Party.

[Tinoire]

23. Even more depressing when you put it that way

Depressing and demoralizing!

I don't think we'll ever get the "Old Dem" Party back. These guys, like Bush, have no intention of letting go.

:(

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Then You Would Have To Add A Fourth Or Fifth Party

Since I am to the left of the DLC, the Liberterians and the Chaffe-Specter, Collins, Snowe Republicans but to the right of Dennis Kucinich, Maxine Waters, and Ralph Nader...

But like Maxine Waters who will make alliances with folks to the right of her I am willing to make alliances with folks to the left of me...

Privatizing social security is a bad idea but Al Gore was on the right track in 00 where he wanted to use tax incentives to help Americans set up non social security retirement accounts....

Y'all are too hard on Harold Ford... He's an African American who wants to be a senator from Tennessee; a southern state that leans right and leans Republican...

And when America elects an African American president it's going to be a conformist type like Doug Wilder or the late Tom Bradley...

I'll take my social change however I can get it...

[pdx_prog]

20. Jr

Jr. doesn't stand for the people....him and his dear old dad have always stood only for themselves, but disguised their true agendas with pretending to care about their people. Dad Harold tried to sue one of Memphis's largest employers "Northwest" because he said he chomped down on something hard in the mashed potatoes on a flight he was on. Their family funeral home business was under investigation for holding burials, then coming back in and switching the nice caskets for paupers caskets. John Ford is a Tenn Senator....a trooper caught him on I40 between Nashville and Memphis going extremely fast and waving a gun out of the top of his car at him...lol. They HAVE given hope to a lot of people in Memphis but they haven't always been quite on the up and up...lol

[oasis]

22. It seems that Jr. Ford turned out to be an Edsel.

:-(

[DealsGapRider]

24. I think Ford is one of the most promising faces of the party

Ford is going to be one of the leaders of the Dem party in the next couple of decades and may one day find himself on a national ticket. I think he's great -- extremely bright, articulate, moderate enough to appeal to swing voters, pragmatic, compassionate, etc. He's a rising star and for good reason.

This message board is well to the left of the mainstream Democratic party (LIHOP loonies, starry-eyed Kucinich supporters, etc.) and I think it would be a shame to treat every Democrat who is not a card-caarrying member of the silly ass, tinfoil hat wearing fringe Left as a DINO.

[jos]

26. Standing up for social security

"is well to the left of the mainstream Democratic party"?:wtf:

If Ford becomes one of the leader of the Democratic Party, or on the ticket, the Democratic Party will no longer have me as a member.

[oasis]

27. Ford will be needed to fill the void created by Zell Miller's departure.

[NewJerseyDem]

32. He's not that bad

Even though his pro-social security privatization, pro-school prayer, pro-vouchers positions are concerning, he is no Zell Miller. He would definitely be an improvement over Frist if Ford wins the open Tennessee senate seat in 2006. Not many democrats could probably win there. My biggest problem is that everyone is touting him as being the first black president sometime over the next decade or two since he is so young. I don't want him to be president.

http://www.acuratings.com/acu.cgi?ACT=1&USER_ID=193&YEAR=2002

If you look at his ratings last year from the ACU they aren't THAT bad in comparison to some democrats.

I think he is kind of a jackass though. I didn't like how critical he was of Nancy Pelosi in the 2002 campaign for minority leader. Even though Nancy Pelosi can be kind of bitchy sometimes I don't particularly like either of their attitudes.

[jos]

34. Not that bad?

He's pro repeal of the estate tax, pro social security privatization, pro tax cuts for the wealthy, etc., etc. But he's not that bad?! That's a head scratcher.

[NewJerseyDem]

54. Emphasize the THAT

I was just saying in comparison to Zell Miller he isn't THAT bad. Miller almost always votes with republicans on everything. Harold Ford, Jr. doesn't. He also vigorously opposed the 2003 bush tax cuts, I'm not sure about 2001.

I am even theoretically opposed to the estate tax. I think that it is stupid. However, any repeal would have to be part of a larger tax reform bill and I definitely wouldn't support it in this time of massive deficits and other tax cuts.

[Hippo_Tron]

72. Bill Frist won't be going anywhere soon

Mister do exactly what he's told Senate Majority Leader will be there for quite awhile.

[NewJerseyDem]

75. He said he won't run

A lot of people don't honor their term limit pledge but everyone seems to think that he will. It is a common theory that he won't run in 2006 and then spend the next two years campaigning for the republican presidential nomination in 2008. I'm not so sure anybody is going to pressure him to stay. Most republicans have been very dissappointed with his performance as majority leader so far and him retiring is easier than a bloody challenge to his position.

[roughsatori]

29. Well you get mad when people talk "mean" about AWOL-CHIMP

so I would guess that Ford would be right up your alley. Also, you once wrote that you are for "free speech" but would beat up anyone if you saw them burn a flag.

So you are against free speech, you attack DUers for how they attack the Reich-wing in other of your posts; and your above post reads like a Republican wet-dream, so pardon me if think your endorsement of Ford is meaningless. (Or better yet, your endorsement of Ford is redolent with meaning.)

[DealsGapRider]

31. You're thinking of someone else on the AWOL issue

But I did say that I'd kick the ass of a flag burner, damned right. I am against tasteless, offensive speech, not free speech.

Nice way of accusing me of being a Freeper. I like how anytime someone deviates from the far-left party line, that means they MUST be a Freeper. Hell, I didn't say anything remotely Republican and you accuse me. Jesus Christ.

[roughsatori]

35. I did not accuse you of being a Freeper

Re-read my post and you will see. DINO's are Republican-wet dreams--that is not to say they are Freepers. Also, I use AWOL-Chimp when I refer to Shrub. I was referring to your posting in other threads how upset you were with the way DUers attacked Laura and Georgie. You did not like the language. But rather then try to convince anyone, just do a search on any poster using the search engine. Sometimes is does make you wonder why people who attack DUers so much keep posting. It is the accumulation of your posts that I am obviously referring to, not just this one.

By the way, free speech means tasteless speech is allowed. And though I am not saying you are a freeper--the sentiments you expressed about free speech would fit in easily among the posts at FreeRepublic.com.

[DealsGapRider]

40. I like 98% of what I read on DU

But when DUers do things like attack Laura Bush for a traffic accident she had when she was 17, it reminds me of the way the Right went after Clinton and it makes me ill. The level of venom directed toward Bush by many Democrats is no less ugly than that which was directed at Clinton. We should not sink to their level.

I'm also offended by some of the anti-military, anti-American posts on DU and I say so. I've read people express thoughts like America is the world's biggest state sponsor of terrorism and that the American flag is a symbol of oppression and death. Sorry, you don't have to be a Freeper to be offended by that kind of bile.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

64. duplicate

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. I Agree.....

I don't like * .... I don't like * one iota..... but to bring up a car accident that Laura Bush had when she was seventeen years old that killed her boyfriend is mean and gratuitous and makes all of us look small...

As far as the flag* and the military America is far from perfect but I still love the ideals this counry aspires too just like that fellow on my avatar who gave his life for this country....


*As far as flag burning I oppose an Amendment to ban flag burning but if I saw somebody burn the flag in front of me I would literally puke... I wouldn't resort to violence because I eschew violence except in self defense or in defense of another who was unfairly attacked....

[Julien Sorel]

28. One issue makes a person a 'DINO'?

Some of you folks have absolutely zero perspective. The article itself points out Ford's largely liberal voting record, but you clowns run off at the mouth in a frothing hysteria over his position on one single issue. Get a grip.

[NewJerseyDem]

33. It's more than that

He is a blue dog democrat which is almost the definition of a DINO to many but I don't know if he is that horrible.

He does support school prayer and school vouchers as well. He voted for the estate tax repeal and the marriage penalty repeal. So, he is pretty moderate. The school prayer issue is more of a problem for me than social security privatization which I thought that Clinton flirted with as well.

[Julien Sorel]

37. He has, by far, the most liberal voting record of any national

legislator in the state of Tennessee, according to the site you linked to above. I saw your above post, and recognize that you have some perspective, but there are far too few people like yourself here.

[jos]

38. What about Al Gore?

He doesn't agree with any of these right-wing positions taken by Ford.

And who else is in the delegation? Cooper, Gordon, Clement. DLCers all.

[Julien Sorel]

41. I wasn't aware Gore was a Tennessee legislator. My bad.

And who else is in the delegation? Cooper, Gordon, Clement. DLCers all.

I can only presume there was a point you were going to make, but accidentally hit the post button before you finished typing?

[goobergunch]

46. True

but that's more of a reflection on Tennessee than on Ford...for instance, the most liberal voting record of a national legislator in Alaska is probably Lisa Murkowski. :shrug:

I wouldn't call Ford a DINO, but I wouldn't want him to be a party leader either.

[Julien Sorel]

47. Ford lives in Tennessee.

I think it's fair to say that a majority of his constiutuents are Tennesseans ;-) Ford is one of the few Democrats in the state who has a chance to win a senate seat. Ford cannot, however, win a statewide election if he has a voting record out of touch with what most Tennesseans are willing to accept.

Ford is not a DINO. Ford is a Democrat, working within, and even pushing back, the limitations of the environment he's been saddled with. His extant voting record is probably pushing the envelope of what his fellow citizens are willing to accept.

[goobergunch]

48. I concur...Ford is probably one of the more liberal people...

we could get in Tennessee.

But liberal for Tennessee is not liberal for America.

[ma4t]

53. perhaps others here will realize why Gore lost Tennessee

Like it or not, Gore was out of touch with Tennessee politically and literally. He rarely came back to campaign for other D's. His politics drifted over time to be much more to the left than those of most in the state. D's can and do win state-wide races in TN. Witness the election of Bredesen as gov. Ford could win the senate seat vacated by Frist, but not if he is perceived as too liberal.

Folks at DU might not like it but "them's the facts."

[jos]

59. So you are saying

he's not a DINO, he's just unprincipled?

[Julien Sorel]

63. So, a 'principled' person would risk his or her seat

in congress in a vain attempt to shove their principles down the throats of their constituents?

Or are there different definitions of 'principle' at work here?

[jos]

70. As someone here pointed out

he's in a safe Democratic district that voted 72% for Gore. So either he's a DINO or, if he's voting because he wants to run for Senate, he's unprincipled.

BTW, anyone who thinks Tennessee is going to elect an African-American to the Senate is dreaming.

[NewJerseyDem]

77. Not true

Tennessee could very possibly elect Harold Ford, Jr. to the senate. I doubt that many people would care what his race is and he is moderate enough to win. Tennessee isn't so extremely conservative that it wouldn't elect a moderate democrat. Ford would have an excellent chance.

[oasis]

78. Ford would have to completely sell out his party to be elected senator.

He should in no way have a position in the Democratic party leadership.

[NewJerseyDem]

56. His district is the most liberal in Tennessee

He represents a very solidly democratic district though. His district gave 72% to Al Gore while the next most liberal district gave Gore 59%. One would think that a Congressman from a very democratic district would be more liberal. However, if he runs for senate in 2006 as many think he will ,and he is currently probably the favorite to win, it will be helpful that he is more moderate and a more liberal congressman couldn't win.

[TahitiNut]

42. Ford also voted for the Iraq "Use of Force" ...

... voted for giving Bush* Trade Promotion Authoirty, and voted to outlaw "late-term abortions" (so-called "partial birth abortions"). He's a member of the Republican wing of the Democtratic Party. :shrug:

When I count his votes on issues I feel strongly about (reproductive choice, tax preferences for the wealthy, vouchers, expansion of executive powers, separation of church and state), and now his insane capitulation on Social Security, I think it's fair to characterize his increasingly neoconservative stances as "DINO" or at least "dINO". These are all very illiberal positions. I would not call them "moderate" in any sense.

[oasis]

44. Should we judge Ford by the company he keeps?

http://www.newamericancentury.org/congress-120601.htm

[oasis]

43. Some blue dog: Congressional letter on Iraq Dec. 5. 2001

http://www.newamericancentury.org/congress-120601.htm Gets props from William Kristol, no less.

[jos]

36. "Largely liberal voting record"?

I think "hardly" is the word your looking for.

Does Wesley Clark support the positions Ford has taken that I and New Jersey Dem have noted? If so, I can cross him off of my list.

[Julien Sorel]

39. My own guess is that Clark is more liberal than Ford.

But he can afford to be -- Ford isn't a 4 star general.

That being said, I'm not really here to win your vote for Clark. And never fear, Kucinich is always there waiting, and when he drops out with his 2%, Nadir will be waiting in turn, cadaverous grin in place. Someone will always be willing to adopt a position radical enough to please you and your fellow handful of purists.

[Julien Sorel]

30. duplicate

[goobergunch]

45. Here's his voting record last Congress

Group Ratings
     ADA  ACLU  AFS  LCV  CON  ITIC  NTU  COC  ACU  NTLC  CHC 
2002  70    60   78   50   43   75    24   63   24   12    33  
2001  85    --  100   86   --   --    18   55    8   --    --  


National Journal Ratings 
    2001 LIB --  2001 CONS   2002 LIB --  2002 CONS 
Economic 58% --  43%              61% --  38% 
Social   70% --  30%              65% --  35% 
Foreign  70% --  28%              64% --  35% 


Key Votes Of The 107th Congress
1. Approve Bush Tax Cuts N 
2. Limit Patients' Bill of Rights N 
3. Campaign Finance Reform Y 
4. Ban ANWR Development Y 
5. Faith-Based Charities N 
6. Bar Gays in the Boy Scouts N 
7. Ban Partial-Birth Abortion Y 
8. Arm Commercial Pilots Y 
9. Trade Promotion Authority N 
10. Bar Funds for Intl. Court N 
11. Authorize Force in Iraq Y 
12. Deny Home. Sec. Dept. Union N 

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. According To Your Post

his big votes are SPOT on....

I don't know how I would have voted on the Partial Birth Abortion Ban though...

That's a tough one....


The late Pat Moynihan who was solidly pro choice called partial birth abortions infanticide....


*on edit-I have a problem with his Iraq vote...

[Freddie Stubbs]

50. Daniel Patrick Moynahan must be spinning in his grave.

[tjdee]

51. Maybe in 10 years he can do a Howard Dean.

He's quite young, 32 at that, and hey, maybe when he does run for national office he will say that he's being flexible, and changing his mind, and listening to the people--and no longer feels that way about social security.

Problem is, of course, he has the ability to vote on the issue--though, I don't look for him to be a tiebreaker. Also, people, he does come from Tennessee....I don't know why y'all are thinking he's going to be Maxine Waters or something.

[oasis]

52. Howard Dean wasn't a spearhead of the Iraq invasion. Re:Dec. 5, 2001

http://www.newamericancentury.org/congress-120601.htm. Ford signed on rather early, don't you think?

[tjdee]

57. Harry Ford is a *gulp* conservative Democrat on some issues.

Ford has his eye on a Tennessee senate seat.

We'll have to see whether he actually follows through with this SS thing or not.

I don't think he's perfect, or liberal--but if he wanted to be a Republican, he would be. I think they've even asked him.

If he goes over to the dark side, he's dead to me, LOL. But until then...

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oasis]

58. I assume you've missed the Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller threads.

BTW, they're not African American but THEY are also sellouts.

[never cry wolf]

60. forget iot, he's a troll...n/t

[oasis]

62. I thought his comments to be rather sassy.

;-)

[NewJerseyDem]

68. Ford will be on Washington Journal

Tomorrow, September 16th at 7:45AM Harold Ford, Jr. will be on the Washington Journal on C-Span. I don't know what topic he will be discussing but people might be able to better judge him from his interview tomorrow.

[oasis]

69. Ford on C-SPAN's Washington Journal, Sept. 16 at 7:45 a.m.

Thanks I'll be calling.

[Hippo_Tron]

73. It amazes me...

How pissed people get at Democrats who side with Republicans on one or two issues.

[jos]

74. In Ford's case

it's not just one or two things. And Social Security is not just "one or two things." It is cornerstone of the Democratic Party. It would be like be against tax cuts for the wealthy if you were in the Republican party.

[mot78]

79. Harold Ford is a big dissipointment

I supported him right after the midterm elections, but I regret liking him. He's basically a black Lieberman.