CALIFORNIA Recall and the repugs

[radfringe]

has anyone noticed a curious turn of spin in the last week or so on the repug side?

Listening to reich-wingers on the radio, and others on various shows it appears that the repugs are "mocking" the recall. have heard many "put downs" and snide comments about the recall

I find this strange, given the fact that the recall was promoted and paid for by the repugs - and NOW they are knocking it as some poor excuse for a side show and don't appear to be taking it seriously

In the weeks leading up to the official announcement of a recall and a couple of weeks into the recall campaign process the repugs were all "serious and concerned" about the fate of California. They railed about the deficit, jobloss, taxes etc. - now they are putting it down...

Why? Could internal polls show that they would lose? Are they hoping by "dissing" the recall that it will make voters take the recall less seriously and thereby NOT show up to vote?

very strange indeed

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Gets worst than taht

Over the last 12 hours they have used the Ninth District
Court of Appeals decision to assault the Democratic Party.

Seems they are starting to see the writing on the wall... also
truth be told Arnie is not their favorite Conservative... who
knows maybe Arnie is a tad too independent for their taste and...
the other Repub, McKintock, he is truly not controllable by Rove.

[roguevalley]

2. pray McClintock holds on.

it will hurt arnold.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. I was actually thinking of sendng some

mulla to McClintock... and no I am not a Republican, but hey
anything to keep the boy in.

The way I see it.. he is POed at the WH and the GOP... so if he
should win he will not play games with Rove... And if he should stay in he will hurt Arnie... and in the end the State will remain Democratic. Sad when one has to start thinking like the enemy, huh?

And yes McClintock is an old style Connie, and there is a difference
to these new "and improved" Neo Connies... err former liberals turned leeches (for once I found myself agreeing with Buchannan, that was
very scary.)

Now after this mess is over that Hiram Johnson law must be taken
out and shot... (I mean the law, and I mean out of the Consitution)

[radfringe]

4. according to ACLU spokesperson regarding the punchcard machines

seems they were determined to be out-dated and totally unreliable (by the former and current CA attorney general) and were scheduled to be trashed and replaced by the 2004 election

They were to be used during the recall only because this recall election was not expected

IMHO - if equal protection under the law argument was good enough for the whistleass running to SCOTUS back in 2000, then it's good enough now for the voters of California

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Goes beyond that

They were allowed to use them in 2002 (as well as many other
counties in the US) as a special dispensation from the
Freedom To Vote Act, as getting the system up and running
with new spanking machines was not feasible.

yes even in florida some of them were reused (with international
observers)

Now watch the Rethugys run to the USSC because of course we cannot
have this special election delayed... and yes they are whining now.

I was just waiting for the argument to be made by the lawyers and
they delivered by the way... after all those machines have been
decertified by the Secretary of State and the Boards of Elections in
multiple counties.

By the way, teh same ballots that they wined about, they want them used this time around.

Go figure...

[Booberdawg]

5. I have seen it posted here and heard it on talk shows

over the last several weeks that there are many in the Republican camps in California that don't like this recall. One reason I recal is that they don't want to end up with Bustamante, but others truly don't like the precedent it sets and realize it can backfire.

For instance, there is ALREADY a Democratic plan in motion for another recall in the event that Arnold wins. Yup. See the problem? Out of state Republicans started this dirty game by financing this. It can be turned on the fuckers and the Dems can beat them at their own game.

I'm half tempted to pick up stakes temporarily and plant myself in CA for as long as necessary to pick up a bat and help beat the fuckers.

[Mountainman]

7. This is a no win situation for the Rethugs who started this thing

Here is how I see it. What the recall organizers really wanted was to elect someone who will overturn any law that impedes on their wealth building ability. That is to get rid of any social program, any environmental program, the Coastal Commission, any anti development politician and any type of business regulation and lower the tax rate on the wealthy.

McClintock is the only one I know of who is that type of rethug but he can't win in CA.

Now they are stuck with either Arnold or Bustamante. Neither of these guys will give them what they want.

The freeper type working class rethug who is anti Hispanic immigration is screwed because this recall will put a Hispanic into the Governor's mansion. They wanted to Dump Davis but not put in a Hispanic. I over heard a woman say this weekend that if Bustamante is elected he will change all the signs to Spanish.

Bustamante is their worst nightmare because he brings out the Hispanic vote which is almost all Democratic.

The rethugs have shot themselves in the foot. They have spent millions and will get nothing in return.

It was never about dumping Davis. It was a political power grab and everyone in the state can see that. The only way this could have benefited them was if no Dem replacement candidate was running and no other rethug candidate other than their hand picked candidate.

They have opened a Pandora's box. The genie is out of the bottle. The have lost control of this recall thing. They look like the political opportunists that they are. The LA times poll said that the majority of voters thinks the recall is unfair.

Rethugs will never take over this state because of their anti immigrant anti Hispanic thinking. The largest voting block here is Hispanic and you have to accept that or lose, period end of story!

[Tacitean]

8. Are you kidding me? Sad to say, yesterday helped the GOP big.

And I'll tell you why. Now they got a minimum of six more months to use Davis as their whipping boy with the added bonus of slamming the 9th court as a liberal shill court.....with the added bonus of justifying the USSC court decision to give Bush the WH in 2000, because that case was cited repeatedly by the 9th in making this decision....Besides that, keeping a wounded Davis in there will piss off just enough Californians who don't want him there.
I see this as hurting Dems in the same way the lack of impeachment conviction vote hurt us for 2000 by keeping a wounded Clinton in there. In my mind this delay can only help Bush next year.

[Booberdawg]

9. That is just bullshit

Having this vote delayed till March favors both Davis and Democrats. There are over a million more registered Democrats than Republicans and tying it to the general primary in March increases turnout which also favors Dems.

In addition it gives the Dems more time for fundraising. Dems also have more time to call attention to the way the Republicans BLOCKED the budget and FORCED the increase in vehicle license fees.

As to your Republican talking point about the 9th circuit court as a liberal shill court, another poster here has already addressed this. Start here and read a few posts down for a complete debunking of this myth.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=115241#115374

Nothing about this is going to justify USSC decision (judicial coup) to give the bush* crime family the White House in 2000. This is only going to embarass the USSC if they decide to take it, and perhaps does now even if they don't.

BTW, the 9th circuit never cited the USSC Bush v Gore case, they simply used the logic from it.

Lack of impeachment? Clinton WAS impeached by the House. The Senate did not ratify it. Clinton's job approval ratings continued to go higher and higher, much to the chagrin of rabid Republicans as I recall.

And by the way, what is your position on the recall matter in Califoria, and Davis? Do you live in California?

[GregW]

12. Agreed! Total BS!

Imagine what Ahhnuld is going to do now that he has six more months before the election. How can he possibly dodge the 3-6 debates Davis' camp will insist on.

Arnie will be humiliated in any debates, now he can't dodge them.

[ljm2002]

13. Pathetic argument

You say, "the lack of impeachment conviction vote hurt us for 2000 by keeping a wounded Clinton in there".

Don't be ridiculous. The lowest Clinton's popularity went during the whole impeachment debacle was 67% FOR him. Which is a good 15% higher than * is now.

Say, you sure you're on the right board? Just asking...

[Booberdawg]

18. Tacitean is toast n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

10. The support for the recall by the Republicans

has always been shallow. Believe it or not, there are STILL some Republicans with dignity and ethics. There are many who see this recall for what it is -- another attempt to steal an election.

On the other hand, it's mobilized the Democrats. Most of us have not forgotten Bush v. Gore and have steamed about it for almost 3 years. They've now taken it to our back yard and we're thrashing them with their own argument. It's taken Democrats 6 weeks to wake people up ("No on Recall" has gone from 25% to 47% support).

The fact is, they've backed themselves into a corner and it's now very close to a win-win situation for the Democrats and most of them see that. They thought they were going to have a walk in California as they did in Florida. Once again, they underestimated the opposition in here. I just love it when they do that! B-)

[Booberdawg]

11. Oh yeah, the Democrats are pissed now

I am, and I live in Iowa!!

[Le Taz Hot]

14. Well, Boob, let me tell you . . .

may I call you Boob? B-) Boob, it's un*friggin'*real around here. I have NEVER seen the state's Democrats mobilized to this degree. The pissed-off factor is ENORMOUS. The upcoming scenarios are just TOO delicious for words:

-USSC doesn't hear the argument. It goes back to the lower courts -- probably the full 9th Circuit. Time is ticking and the momentum is on OUR side.

-USSC does hear the argument. We use the SAME argument the Republicans used in Bush v. Gore.
* The USSC is consistent and rules against the recall, meaning it will be postponed until March -- more time to wake people up to the facts AND a Democratic Presidential Primary to boot! Win Democrats.
* The USSC is inconsistent and reverses itself, thereby confirming that they are, unabashadely, a partisian body and they further erode their legitimacy which re-opens discussion about the Bush v. Gore decision in 2000. The recall goes on in California. Davis may or may not win the recall (looking good to win here) OR "Yes on the Recall" and Bustamonte wins it. Win Democrats.

To borrow from the vernacular: "They're screwed!"

[Booberdawg]

16. Taz

Let me point you to an EXCELLENT and most wicked analagy I just noticed in LBN about the beauty of this delay by the 9th circuit and the dilemma it poses for the USSC

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=116706#116737

Boob :D

[gratuitous]

15. It was supposed to be quick and easy

Just like in 2000. Stall, obfuscate, set up a series of false deadlines (December 12 being the last), then declare the Republican the winner in spite of what the law, the facts or the ballots might have to say. Once Issa had qualified his ego trip for a vote, the Republican powers decided to ride the horse. You may remember all the folks, including Issa, who dropped out of the recall race once a candidate acceptable to the power-brokers emerged.

Ahnuld may be a complete dunce, but he'd be the Republicans' dunce, and that matters when you're trying to set the tone for something. Immigration? Who cares? Economic policies? Yesterday's news, deader than your job prospects. Iraq? Hey, the governor of California doesn't declare war, so why worry about that? But for hosting power rallies and gulling the gullible? You can't do much better for figurehead politics than the Terminator himself! The real damage, and the real maneuvering, would be done sub rosa by his aides, appointees, and office staff.

Now, though, it all gets knocked into a cocked hat. The Ninth Circuit says that the previous orders related to balloting in California actually mean something, and the 44% of the California electorate who vote by punch card ballot are entitled to better consideration of their votes. Since the six counties haven't taken care of things as was ordered, no election will be held until the matter is straightened out.

The longer this goes on, the more the public's sense of basic fairness is offended. Davis may not be the greatest governor in history, but for heaven's sake, he was only six months into his second term, and if the Republicans wanted to unseat him, they had their chance in 2002. And that massive $38 billion state budget shortfall? Well, it's already been whittled down to $8 billion, and by comparison to Chimpy's latest request for pursuing his bit of foreign imperialism, it seems like pretty small beer. By the time the ballots are actually cast, Darrell Issa may not vote for recall.

[realFedUp]

17. They don't want Dem voters showing up

Pass it off as a joke and some people will tell themselves
it's a joke and not vote.

Psyops 101