Clark? I don't get it. What's so special about him? Really.

[Armstead]

I am less than thrilled about Clark entering the race. And I am even less thrilled about the possibility of him being the nominee.

Can some of you Clark supporters -- without flaming -- please explain it? I have an open mind, but I'm scratching my head in perplexity.

Really. I don't get it. I like him. If he were running for Senate or Congress, I's say "Right on."

But president? Now? I just don't see him as a great savior of the Democratic Party, or the guy that will send GW packing. Or who will help the left half of the politivcal spectrum regain some focus.

I've watched him, and tried to understand what the big deal is. It kind of feels like a Chauncy Gardener candidacy (the book Being There). A cipher who says nothing, but whom people project all kinds of wonderful things of their own onto.

Okay, he was a general. A NATO general. I'm imprressed, truly. But Richard Meyers is a general, as was Colin Powell. As one of the TV Military Consultants, Clark was a lot better than most, in terms of being clear-eyed on that boondiggle called Iraq.

But what is he otherwise? What qualifications does he have in terms of proving himself in elected office?

Where does he stand on domestic issues? Foreign policy? Is he a real living breathing liberal? Or a DLC Republican? Or a nebulous "my only politics are the truth" kind of candidate?

And in terms of presence, he seems like a competant functionary, but not someone who is going to lead us out of the wilderness. Not much passion or clarity.

Hell, the guy was even afraid to admit he was a Democrat until now. C'mon. I'm all for independence, but someone who was so cetermined to obscure his political allegiances until they come in handy is not the level of committment that sends one's heart soaring.

Please help me out here. I be one puzzled fellow at the moment.

[FlashHarry]

1. Here we go again...

Wes Clark on the issues.

On edit: If you don't know anything about him (But what is he otherwise? What qualifications does he have in terms of proving himself in elected office? Where does he stand on domestic issues? Foreign policy? Is he a real living breathing liberal?), how can you be 'less than thrilled' at his entering the race?

[joeybee12]

4. Clark has yet to be tested...

...he's pretty much gotten a free pass so far, since the pathetic media is simply fawning over the intrigue of whether he'll run.

This is not a slam of him--he actually spun them quite adeptly. The point is he hasn't been in the middle of a campaign yet, and God only knows what will happen--lots of variables and uncertainities out there that he will have to handle, and handle them while being viewed under a microscope like the others already have been.

[Trajan]

22. Some leaders ....

work their way from the bottom, and 'dust and sweep' their way to the top ....

Others are natural leaders, who simply step into their station in life without pause ......

Yes: .. Clark has NEVER ran for public office, but does THIS alone preclude him from being an effective campaigner ? ....

Some people just naturally exude the qualities needed for specific tasks ....

Could Clark be one man amongst millions who COULD run a successful presidential campaign even WITHOUT ever holding office ? ...

Could be: .. its his dime if he chooses to try ....

IF Clark emerges from the primaries as the strongest candidate ? ... then he is the nominee .... it really is as simple as that ....

Whether he has ever held elective office or no: ... He would be the nominee .....

And, IMHO, he would be a formidable candidate ....

[Armstead]

7. Thanks

I'm keeping an open mind, and looking for info.

[FlashHarry]

13. No problem.

I'm not a Clark supporter, by the way... yet. I appreciate your open mind. Sorry if I snapped earlier, but it sounded like you'd already made up your mind.

[Julien Sorel]

2. If I were to count the number of times someone

has posted a thread just like this one, I bet, and I'm serious, we'd be getting close to 100, 10 of them today alone. But you have to pile on.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

5. Yep :)

I'm sure it will get worse and Clark's support gets stronger. I want to bash the supporters of a certain candidate so bad right now, but I'm just going to let it pass :)

Just wait until the Republicans start in on Clark. I bet they will hurt themselves worse though.

Hurry up Clark, make a big speech about corporate loyalty, outsourcing, NAFTA, and come out as a strong economic populist.

[Armstead]

9. If he does...

"Hurry up Clark, make a big speech about corporate loyalty, outsourcing, NAFTA, and come out as a strong economic populist."

If he does, that'll be a BIG point in his favor, as far as I'm concerned.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

12. if he does he'll probably get my vote ... if not

he won't. I don't think that Clark is a typical neo-liberal pro-NAFTA corporate whore, but he may be. I hope he doesn't screw it up, because his defence credibility along with a strong populist message will WIN big.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

19. He's Spoken on These Very Issues

Minutes 27-31 of this excellent NPR interview go into his economic credentials and his position on issues like these:

http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2003/09/20030908_b_main.asp

DTH, Just in Case You Hadn't Seen It :-)

[DoveTurnedHawk]

18. He's Spoken on These Very Issues

Minutes 27-31 of this excellent NPR interview go into his economic credentials and his position on issues like these:

http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2003/09/20030908_b_main.asp

DTH

[goobergunch]

14. There ought to have been a special "Clark" forum for today

:-)

[LalahLand]

I think people assume that he will get the nomination just because

he is a General. I'm here to say that I don't think the average American cares whether someone is in the military or not-in fact, it may even be a turn off to some. Clark has no experience. He's a nice guy, but he's kind of boring. My two cents.

[rabid_nerd]

3. He is DLC

and a CNN Analyst.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

8. No, Clark is NOT DLC, Gore, Dean, Kerry, Lieberman - they are DLC

Clark has never been a member of the DLC, while Gore, Dean, Kerry, and Lieberman have been. Nice try though.

[clar]

16. Clever answer

and technically correct, but it's widely acknowledged that Clark is the DLC choice, and will be their beneficiary.

[Pepperbelly]

24. widely acknowleged by whom? nt

[NewYorkerfromMass]

42. First it was Lieberman, then Kerry, and now Clark is "the" DLC choice?

I'm having trouble keeping track. But I'm having even more trouble believing this. :eyes:

[Pastiche423]

21. Dean is not dlc

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

25. Yes, Dean was a member of the DLC, and he supports DLC policies

It's true that a lot of elected Democrats don't want Dean to win the primary, since Dean can't beat Bush, but let's be honest - Dean is 100% DLC and agrees with almost every DLC position. Dean is the PERFECT example of a "DLC Democrat"

[DemExpat]

6. He looks like the only really electable candidate IMO.....

Appealing to a large range of voters.
He's smart, a Dem, nice, and will surround himself with a 'dream -team' - in my ideal vision.....

DemEx

[ronzo]

10. Great message / serious Q rating...

...'nuf said

[Armstead]

17. What's the message?

That's what I'm wondering.

Pro "free trade" scam, against it or determined to make international trade work for real people and willing to make the tough choices that requires?

Happy that our economy is turning into One Big Corporation (a la DLCers) or in favor of telling the truth about the stranglehold of the Oligarchy?

Those are the questions inquiring minds want to know.

[ronzo]

26. I hear ya, but give the guy a chance...

He's already laid out his position on more issues than I'd expected. First things first. Lunchtime tomorrow.

[Maple]

11. Clark just has a few

boosters who flood the place with threads, and it makes it look as tho he has momentum.

Hence the hilarious 'should everybody else drop out now' or 'should Dean just quit right now' routines. :D

[Demobrat]

15. I'm not impressed. I find him almost as boring and longwinded as

another boring and longwinded candidate who shall remain nameless. But I will say this for him: he may be able to pull some of the stupid white male vote from Chimpy. He does look better in a uniform, and did actually serve.

[Bucky]

20. Not the "only" electable, but good enough

He's not the only electable candidate. Whoever comes out of the primary process will have a fair chance. I'm pretty unsure about a Dean candidacy, frankly. But I'm not attracted to Clark because of his military background.

What sold me on him, what got me thinking he was different, was his speech on Bill Mahar's show. He understands the founding principles of this country, how the ideals of the Enlightenment were put into practical terms by the Constitution.

He isn't a passionate speaker, but he is a visionary speaker. He's got his head in the right place. Many candidates seem to approach policy issues with faith-based thinking. Our current president even has faith-based foriegn policy decisions.

Clark expresses ideals with a lot of weight and ethos, but his entire approach on issues is a high-minded version of 'what will work?'. I like that in a leader. Clinton had that quality. Truman had that quality. Washington had that quality.

A good example is Clark's view on gays in the military. It's not a philosophical question to him, as it is to left and right leaning opponents of "don't ask - don't tell." Clark says simply that gays have always been in the military and always will be there; so what. Then, however, he complements his pragmatism with idealism by stating that, if someone wants to serve their country, they should be allowed to do so. That's not ideology; it's leadership.

Of course I'm still holding out for Graham to break out of the pack, but it looks like I'll end up barking for Clark.

[fizzana]

23. From what I have seen of Clark I am very impressed

Ideally, my outlook probably lines up closest to Kucinich and Moseley-Braun but I will get behind any Democrat who can win. I think Clark could have the edge because of his background and that he might be a lot harder to attack than some of the other candidates.

His military background also can't hurt with either the active military or veterans and I think Bush could be more vulnerable in those areas that GOP candidates normally are.

I expect Rove's operation to get extremely viscious and I think there might not be much that they can get to stick against Clark.

Time will tell.

[seventhson]

27. He's NOT Bush. He's NOT Kerry.

That's what i like about him.

Compared to Bush and Cheney and Kerry this guy looks awesome.

I prefer Edwards as VP, though, with Dean

ANYBODY But Kerry/Bush

[onehandle]

28. ha ha...

Yeah that Kerry is a big fat Nazi!

Do any DUers ever look at voting records. Ha ha.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. NO....... paranoia strikes deep...into the threads it will creep

but I heard Dean and Kerry got it on once. :scared:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. what a stupid question...are you just another flamer? GEEZ! (sarcasm on)

Sorry..I couldn't resist...you'd think his supporters would want to enroll you and persuade you rather than run a snake up your ass and give you an enema :D

You're probably in the bathroom right now and can't see this.

[Armstead]

44. Ouch

When I think of ways my love life can be improved, getting a snake up the butt isn't one of them.

But I figured the flames would be waiting when I posted this, sooooo....I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment. :spank:

[robbedvoter]

31. I say you'd have to listen to the man. Some of the words that made me

like him:
We had Osama bin Laden,
wasn't enough of an enemy, I guess, wasn't clear, wanted to get
something more substantial, let's go back to those old guys we didn't
like the last time, so let's finish off Saddam Hussein. (audience
applause and laughter)
Maher: All right now, I have to tell you General, when you said
bait-and-switch, you just said the magic word! Ladies and gentleman,
bait-and-switch, and there it is! (the Bush fighter pilot doll drops
down onto the set by parachute) (audience laughter) No heckling! This,
as you may have known, we had it on the show a couple weeks ago. This is
the George Bush doll, this has been put out by a company. Him in his
flight suit, this is President dress-up, when he made his appearance on
the aircraft carrier. I'm wondering what you think of that stunt.
Clark: First of all, I think it's a great flight suit, and a lot of...
(audience applause and laughter) great men and women have worn that suit
with honor, and have risked their lives, have lost their lives, in that
flight suit. And I think when you see that doll, what it will remind us
of is the premature celebration at the end of this war. Because this was
the 1st of May, and the banner read Mission Accomplished.
snip
l. I want to read you a quote,
because Howard Dean said "...In Vermont, you know, politics is much
farther to the left. A Vermont centrist is an American liberal right
now." And then his campaign manager came out and said "That's not an
admission he's a liberal!" Which, quite frankly pissed me off. Somehow
they hijacked that word. And you're a Democrat, you said that last week.

Clark: Absolutely. (audience applause)
Maher: OK. I'm just wondering, of all the people who have the
credentials to say "liberal" is not a bad word, I'm wondering if I could
get you to say that.
Clark: Well, I'll say it right now.
Maher: Good for you!
Clark: We live in a liberal democracy. That's what we created in this
country. It's in our constitution! We should be very clear on this...
this country was founded on the principles of the enlightenment. It was
the idea that people could talk, have reasonable dialogue and discuss
the issues. It wasn't founded on the idea that someone would get struck
by a divine inspiration and know everything, right from wrong. People
who founded this country had religion, they had strong beliefs, but they
believed in reason, and dialogue, and civil discourse. We can't lose
that in this country. We've got to get it back.

[iangb]

32. In 2000 who in the Bush Admin were you most likely to trust?

My guess would be........Powell.

Think about it.

[artr2]

33. He's the Anti-Dean

Imagine all the panties that are being twisted into a bunch by Dean. All the DLC & democratic insiders are just as frightened by Dean as * is. Not relying on the corperate tit to get his campaign funds and beholding to no one except the people. Why do you think the Clintions are pushing him so hard? All you Clark people just watch and see where his money comes from and how this is played up

[artr2]

34. He's the Anti-Dean

Imagine all the panties that are being twisted into a bunch by Dean. All the DLC & democratic insiders are just as frightened by Dean as * is. Not relying on the corperate tit to get his campaign funds and beholding to no one except the people. Why do you think the Clintions are pushing him so hard? All you Clark people just watch and see where his money comes from and how this is played up

[KG]

35. because he's 'electable' dammit!

why is he electable? he just is dammit! since a few DUers decided they would vote for him, that obviously means he's electable. and don't you mind that he's never metioned being a democrat or helped democrats in any way till there was an opportunity to use them to run for prez. he's the most republicanesque candidate out there, so stop bashing gen. clark, ok, dammit!!! :)

[Bread and Circus]

36. He's the best candidate....

in my opinion.
There a lot of very specific reasons but now
you have the advantage of watching his campaign for
yourself. Make up your own mind if it is not already
made up (although I suspect it has).

[Rowdyboy]

37. Really, we haven't even had

the first caucus. Let this thing play itself out and may the best Democrat win. Its gonna be fun

[Terwilliger]

40. tell us...why is he the best candidate?

specifically

[Bread and Circus]

43. A dozen reasons.

National Security.

That's one.

He's has a better resume and "bio" than the rest.

That's two.

Crossover appeal. Would garner more moderate and crossover
appeal because of his background/image/above the fray style.

That's three.

Backed by another genius, Clinton, who happens to know a thing
a two about beating people named Bush.

That's four.

A real progressive who doesn't scare moderates because of
his style as a non partisan who can actually get things
done for the left.

That's five.

Someone who actually served the country and didn't turn
his back on it when challenged. That goes a long way in the
hearts and minds of the electorate.

That's six.

Vocally anti-Bush and in a way where the media actually
cares enough to give him generous air time.

That's seven.

Good looking and telegenic, charismatic, great smile.
In other words, awesome Q score.

That's eight.

Can run as an outsider, not a partisan hack.

That's nine.

Can actually unite this country under a banner of
American Democracy and enlightenment.

That's ten.

Polls almost as well as the front runners without
running a campaign.

That's eleven.

The other's have had six to nine months to run and
different polls yield different results. No one,
save Dean, has caught fire.

That's twelve.

There you go, twelve reasons I believe Clark is the
best candidate. I am not saying they are cut-in-stone
facts, but they are merely just observations which form
my opinion. I will let Clark explain his policies and
platform in the ensuing weeks.

Now STFU unless you give a me a good run-down on your
candidate. Thanks.

:nuke:

[iangb]

45. ..and a dozen more.....

....Security, security, security, security, security, security, security, security, security, security, security and security.

GOP's Plan A calls for questioning a Dem candidates credentials when it comes to defending America from evil.......

How're they going to portray Clark as a Saddam & Osama loving pinky who'll let the military run down and leave the Country wide open for terrorists?

[KoKo]

38. Kick.

:kick:

[CentristDemocrat]

39. Because he's Dean with a resume and electability.

[KoKo]

41. Dean doesn't have a Resume? You're kidding....Governor of Vermont? What?

I can't believe you actually posted that.......sheesh :eyes: