Maybe I'm crazy - but do we have a MAJOR scandal brewing???

[janekat]

That could make Watergate look like child's play?

I can feel it in my bones.

Put the pieces together:

Clinton and the Dems are out in California - not just acting "gleeful" but downright "giddy.

Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice out there self-destructing and backtracking. Saying they didn't say things that we KNOW they didn't say. "We never said that Iraq had ties to Al Qaida."

People resigning right and left: Matalin, Fleischer, Hughes, Perhaps Colin Powell?

It has to do with Cheney and Bushs' inexplicable "Push" to war.
The administration's many lies about Iraq.

The fact that all of the "defense contracts" and not just the ones in Iraq and Afghanistan - but the ones ANYWHERE on the globe are going to Halliburton.

THE same company that Cheney STILL has stock OPTIONS in (but went around claiming he sold all of his STOCK). Lord knows how many people in that Bush Admin. are becoming gazillionaires due to all of the holdings and ties they have in defense, oil, energy. Not to mention Poppy and the rest of the friends, family of Bush, Cheney, etc.

And this is not just a simple case of a little "break-in" at the Watergate Hotel. Many people have died: Americans, Brits Iraqis.

This would not just be an indictable offense - but full-fledged TREASON.

If this is true - this is going to make Watergate look like a "blip" on the screen in this nation's history.

[cjbuchanan]

1. now we just need a few good reporters

to drive the story.

[soothsayer]

55. We don't have reporters anymore, just newsreaders

Ever since reporters became celebrities themselves, they lost their zeal for truth finding. Too bad.

[Iris]

59. But what about print media?

The fact is the younger generation has grown up with canned media, but I hold out hope that some of them might break into doing some real investigative journalism - they would be motivated by the (flawed) idea that they are doing something really "cutting edge".

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

2. When their ties to the Binladens gets in the public mind

there might be riots in the street. Bush belongs in prison, but I'm sure whatever Dem gets into office will pardon him.

[Flying_Pig]

10. If they pardon them, they will not be safe anywhere in this country,

nor the world. Think about it. If the Bush regime is formally implicated in 9/11, which I think they will be, you are going to have the survivors of the 3000+ killed after him. That amounts to tens of thousands of people. Then, there are going to be the survivors of all he's gotten killed over the Iraq action, both here, and Iraq. That amounts to possibly hundreds of thousands of people. Where could they hide? The safest place for them would be in prison, but then, look what happened to that priest in maximum security.

Bottom line is though, prison is too good for them. If they are convicted of treason and other high crimes, like murder, as they should be, they should all have to face a firing squad.

[Catherine Vincent]

22. Re: the Bushies implication in 9/11

I think a lot of buttkissing republicans are starting to worry. The other day on C-Span their guest wrote a book titled "Losing Bin Laden" or something like that and it had a pic of Clinton on it. Of course this moron was faulting Clinton for everything from Bin Laden to 9/11. And a lot of the republican callers were stating that because Clinton did nothing for 8 years about terrorism blah blah blah, that is the reason 9/11 happened. What kind of crap is that? All I know is the attack didn't happen on Clinton's watch...it happened on Bush's watch and THEY HATE THAT FACT.

[havocmom]

24. Another group of survivors need to be counted soon:

the survivors of people whose lives were shortened because of financial ruin brought on by the poor economy and the shell game played with stocks and retirement funds by the Corporat Facists. We need to keep these people in mind also. They are victims and many will be KIA against the financial takeover by the Global Feudalists of the US treasury and gutting of the 'safety net' which is sure to occur soon.

Working hard, saving, investing were suppose to insure the future and that has been stolen from millions of law abiding citizens. They are/will be victims of the BFEE Crime Spree also. Their kilth and kin must be invited/pursuaded to join the battle against those who have degraded life in America and the world in their rush for good quarterly reports.

edit: typos

[Flying_Pig]

31. Good point!!

Going even further, we could add those who have been denied proper health care because of Bush's budget cuts; those who have lots their jobs and have had their lives destroyed, causing suicides and divorces; those who are, and have been, poisoned because of EPA cutbacks, rulings and deceptions.

I can't wait to see what New York City is going to be like for the Repug convention. There may be millions there (and should be!) calling for their heads on a platter. What a wonderful sight that would be!! Matter of fact, today I think I'll buy a cut-rate ticket to N.Y. from out West here, just so I can see, and participate, in the fun!!

:evilgrin:

[loudnclear]

3. The fact the neither the administration nor the news media reported

to the American people when all those captured Iraqi scientists insisted that Iraq's WMD program was stopped after the 1990's inspections and that there were no WMDs at the time of US invasion is high crimes and misdemenors in my opinion. They outright lied to the public and caused the deaths of thousands of innocent Iraqis and hundreds of our uniformed men and women! If this ain't treason...what is? And they keep trying to purpetuate the lies by semantics when they know full well what message they intended the American public to receive!

[Flying_Pig]

16. I've been screaming about this for over 2 years now!

The media is guilty of complicity, obstruction of justice, and treason. We need a Nuremberg type court set up, to try those in the media who have been guilty of helping this fascist regime. The media are as much to blame for all that's happened as anyone.

[rwork]

4. Daves top 10 list last night

was reasons Colin Powell should step down. I thought I had missed something and he was stepping down.

[BurtWorm]

5. He is stepping down, officially, at the end of this term.

[ArkDem]

49. I would challenge you to show an official announcement.

Time magazine reported that an unnamed administration official gave them this information but Powell, the state department and Bush deny this.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-08-04-powell-state_x.htm

[gristy]

6. Their house of cards is certainly tottering

but until it falls it is hard to say that it will. If it does, the country will be in for a gut-wrenching experience. Remember the stock market bubble. Most thought it would never end.

The one institution that ought to be the one to do it would be the United States Attorney General. But, since John Ashcroft runs that ship, that isn't going to happen.

What about Elliot Spitzer, NY State Attorney General? Unfortunately, though Halliburton has about 385 offices throughout the U.S., they have not a SINGLE office in NY State (link).

[soleft]

7. The 4 9/11 Widows from NJ are the new Woodward and Bernstein

That was my gut feeling watching them on NOW last week.

[ignatius]

12. Those women are remarkable!!! I believe the fact that Cheney

and his Dummby didn't show up for the memorial service for the families had a lot to do with these women and their unswerving efforts to get to the bottom of the unanswered questions of 9-11.

That and the WH scrubbing of the EPA report are scandalous and these heroic women will keep hope alive that the awful truth will someday see the light of day.

[liberalnurse]

27. Yes, they are courageous .

I want to learn more about their movement and support them anyway I can.

[LEW]

8. Until someone who is very credible steps up

with proof and the guts to get together a "coaliation of the willing" to back him/her up, the newies will continue to gloss over the offenses of this administration. Because of course they don't "create" the news they just report it, right.........

B-)

[freepotter]

17. Pink Tutu Dems. aren't going to do a thing....

September 16, 2003—Democrats in Congress have abandoned their efforts to investigate the White House's use of questionable intelligence information about Iraq's alleged stockpile of weapons of mass destruction, saying the issue has been "eclipsed" by President Bush's request for $87 billion from Congress to continue funding the war there.

David Helfert, a spokesman for Congressman David Obey, D-Wisconsin, who criticized the White House for relying too heavily on murky intelligence to get support for the war, said Friday that congressional Democrats would no longer pursue hearings on the intelligence matter.

"We're past that," Helfert said, referring to the intelligence issue. "Those questions were eclipsed by the supplemental request by President Bush for $87 billion" to fund the Iraq war. "Congress is focusing on asking questions about the $87 billion, what it will be used for and whether it's worth it. It would be a good characterization to say that the intelligence questions on Iraq and how the president came to believe that it had weapons of mass destruction are no longer an issue."



http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/091603Leopold/091603leopold.html

They are just going to give them another "pass". I think I'm going to be sick....

[ronatchig]

9. Almost more felonies

than can be counted, can be layed at the feet of not only Bush/Cheney et al, but most of their major supporters in this coupe de etat we have endured over the last seven years.
It is well past time for these traitors to face personal responsability for their actions.

[janekat]

15. It makes Watergate look like "childs play" n/t

Just to let all of you know - I'm in the process of contacting a couple of reporters about this. I have a friend who is the editor of a paper down here.

[arcane1]

47. and these dumb-asses want to EXPAND the death penalty

bring it on, I say! reap what you sow you nazi bastards

[jonoboy]

11. our gain was your loss

any one of the things you mentioned should surely be a bigger and more reprehensible scandal than Watergate ever was..after all it was just a break-in and rifling of a few files and then a cover-up.

The US media has been on another planet for the last year..what happened ?

with which I must apologise for R.Murdoch..he left us and unfortunately you got him and his 'dumbing down' of the media.

[gristy]

23. Hi jonoboy!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Beam Me Up]

13. Yes. See also this DU thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=349408

[On the Road]

14. I Think the Most Likely Break

will be the revelation that the conquest of Iraq was discussed at Cheney's energy staff meetings early in 2001.

[janekat]

19. Yeppers!!! I always had the feeling that it was an important part...

to this puzzle. Why else would they be trying so hard to keep it secret?

[section321]

37. That would be damning.....

That would be it for the Bushies...

[paulsbc]

18. link?

HE same company that Cheney STILL has stock OPTIONS in (but went around claiming he sold all of his STOCK).


do you have a link for this? I'd love to see the real dirt... There was an article yesterday I read that claimed Cheney only receives deferred compensation from a 1999 salary deferrement...

[janekat]

20. I have one somewhere.... n/t

[wes_clark_for_pres]

21. NIGHTLINE

Did anyone watch it last night? Imus referred to it today...said that Ted gave Condi a hard time. I'll look for a transcript if available...

[janekat]

25. C'mon folks keep feeding me info.....

anything you can think of. I'm in the process of writing it all up....

[gristy]

28. Go to this DU link in editorials

To learn about all the fallout in the papers today from Cheney's interview on MTP last Sunday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=11620

[janekat]

33. Cheneys fin. interest in Halliburton - CNN TODAY

Congress investigating

Cheney aide rejects Halliburton questions
From John King
CNN Washington Bureau
Tuesday, September 16, 2003 Posted: 7:16 PM EDT (2316 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/16/cheney.halliburton/

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Vice President Dick Cheney's office Tuesday dismissed as "a political cheap shot" new Democratic questions about his financial stake in the energy services giant Halliburton, which has received lucrative contracts in postwar Iraq.

"He doesn't have a financial interest in the company," a top Cheney aide told CNN.

Lautenberg also listed Halliburton stock options that are shown on Cheney's financial disclosure form -- some 233,000 shares in all that vest between 2007 and 2009.

The Cheney aide said that on January 18, 2001 -- just before being sworn in as vice president -- Cheney assigned all of his Halliburton stock options to a charitable trust.

"He legally and irrevocably assigned them and he receives no tax benefit from them," the Cheney aide said. This aide said the trustee of the trust decides when to sell them.

Lautenberg, in a statement, renewed a call for the Senate Government Affairs Committee to hold hearings on government contracts with Halliburton and said to everyday Americans that Cheney's statement would not make sense.

"If you ask everyday Americans if someone has a financial stake in a company that provides them with annual compensation, I am certain they would answer, 'yes.' "

[LunaC]

56. It's already been all written up....

If you want to save yourself some time, write to [e-mail] for a copy of "The Stealth Coup" then make a gazillion copies and leave it on your neighbor's doorsteps.

[NNN0LHI]

26. I think you meant...

..."Saying they didn't say things that we KNOW they did say", rather than "Saying they didn't say things that we KNOW they didn't say"? I think?

Don

[janekat]

29. anybody have some links to the cheney energy thing? n/t

[NNN0LHI]

30. There is a post on LBN somewhere about it. He is taking it to the...

...Supreme court in an attemt to block the release the info.

Don

[paulsbc]

32. if this article

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1506&e=6&u=/afp/us_iraq_cheney

is all we have, it is a non-issue.

Please give me links about something other than deferred comp or I'll lose my argument with my co-worker...

[janekat]

34. he has stock options n/t

[paulsbc]

39. please

post a link or proof!!! you saying it in a subject line is not the proof I need for my argument!!!

[Beetwasher]

41. Here you go:

http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/16/news/companies/halliburton/index.htm

"Sen. Lautenberg also listed Halliburton stock options that are shown on Cheney's financial disclosure form -- some 233,000 shares in all that vest between 2007 and 2009.

The Cheney aide said that on January 18, 2001 -- just before being sworn in as vice president -- Cheney assigned all of his Halliburton stock options to a charitable trust.

"He legally and irrevocably assigned them and he receives no tax benefit from them," the Cheney aide said. This aide said the trustee of the trust decides when to sell them."

I for one say open the books FAT MAN. I'd love to know more about this "charitable trust" and its "Trustee". Sorry, but this stinks to high heaven.

[paulsbc]

43. not enough

a charitable trust is not financial interest, but opening the books is DEFINITELY required, I hope it isn't just the Dems playing politics though and they have something on him...

of course, as stupid as the American people seem to be, perhaps we can get some play off of this as Lautenberg is thinking...

[janekat]

44. He has stock options..... n/t

[Beetwasher]

45. You and I know that re: the trust

I say run with it and open the books. Just because he claims he assigned the stock to a charitable trust and has no control, doesn't mean it's true. As a matter of fact, I think he's full of shit. Do you really think he would just give up 230,000 shares? Puhleeez! As I said, this stinks to high heaven...

[paulsbc]

46. actually

i think that he did give them up to a charitable trust, because he wouldn't make the statements he just made if that were not true (unless he is just a complete idiot, and given that I think HE is actually running the show and not Bush, I don't see that).

It is standard policy when running for national office to relinquish your holdings/options with a company, and Cheney has appeared to do that so far based on the links I've read. I'd love to have REAL links that point to REAL conflicts so we can bury him....

[Beetwasher]

51. I don't doubt that he transferred them to a trust

I'm not exactly sure about the law regarding this, but I thought that Presidents and VP's were supposed to liquidate their stocks and put the money in a BLIND TRUST. That's not what happened here. Cheney did not get rid of his stock, he transferred it to this "charitable trust" where it's under the supervision and control of the trustee. I could almost guarantee that the trustee is a personal trusted friend of Cheney's. If you don't think Cheney is still in control of that stock then you're naive. The impropriety of still essentially owning and controlling stock in and receiving a salary from a company that is receiving billions as a direct result of your policies is astonishing. To my knowledge, there has never been a conflict of interest as blatant as this. Obviously he's trying to weasle through a loophole that may or may not exist. At some point in the future, I guarantee he's going to reap the benefits of those 230,000 shares of stock that are certainly increasing in value due to their no-bid Iraq contracts. If you think otherwise you're being foolish.

[paulsbc]

52. facts

deferred compensation is not a conflict of interest. he made the decision before his run for office, and receives nothing more or less should Halliburton tank or do well.

THAT is a non-issue, and attempting to make it into an issue makes us look like idiots, IMO.

Now, the Trust issue may have legs, but if it is a "real" charitable trust, with a valid charity that Cheney has no involvement in or renumeration for, then it is ALSO a non-issue that makes us look like idiots if we push it.

What we need is a REAL conflict of interest to bury him, and the full disclosure hearings proposed better make sure they will find something or it will look like another stupid pure politics play and actually HELP the Republicans, which is not what I'm after.

They have PLENTY of other issues to attack them on and I prefer not to give the Republicans an "out" on some issue that isn't supportable...

[Beetwasher]

54. Nonsense

I say hammer him and hammer him hard. These are NOT non-issues and for once I say fuck what the "facts" say. Let Cheney start defending himself with the factual details and watch the publics eyes glaze over. Appearance is everything. This appears (and rightfully so) incredibly shady and improper. Has a VP ever received a deferred salary before from a company that was receiving billions in no-bid contracts fromt he government and still owned stock options (just because they're in a charitable trust, doesn't mean he doesn't own them, he does and will receive income from them in the future)? I don't think so. Also, he lied about it. He in FACT does still have financial ties to Halliburton. Both the deferred salary and the stock options are financial ties, no matter how you spin it. Those are the FACTS and nobody's gonna look like an idiot for bringing it up. Most of the people in the country don't know what deferred compensation or charitable trusts are and they won't bother to find out. But they will think it looks suspicious. It's just too damn bad, it's being brought up and rightfully so, but you go ahead and stick with the "facts"...

[paulsbc]

57. i will

you exemplify what i hate in politics, damn the truth, whatever fits your agenda. just stupid.

there are plenty of valid things to hold this administration accountable for, imo.

[Beetwasher]

58. What utter Bullshit

There's nothing untruthful about pursuing this and making an issue of it. What is it about the undeniable facts and truth of this situation that eludes you?

1. Cheney does not liquidate his Halliburton stocks like he's supposed to but instead transfers them to a charitable trust. To my knowledge no other VP has ever done this.
2. He receives a deferred salary from Halliburton while he's VP. Again, to my knowledge no VP has ever done this.
3. Halliburton receives billions in no-bid contracts as a direct result of Cheney's war hard on for Iraq
4. He obviously and undeniably still has financial ties to Halliburton and blatantly lies about it on national television and says he doesn't have financial ties.

Get it? It's the truth and those are the facts. What's your problem?

[gristy]

42. Here you go

This is from a google news search of <"sierra club" cheney energy>

Cheney Wants Supreme Court Review on Energy Case
Tue September 16, 2003 07:12 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration signaled its intent on Tuesday to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court a ruling requiring Vice President Dick Cheney to divulge information about his energy task force.

In papers filed with the U.S. Court of Appeals in the District of Columbia, Cheney's Justice Department lawyers said they intend to file a petition with the Supreme Court no later than Sept. 30.

Last week, the appeals court refused to reconsider its previous ruling against Cheney, leaving him with the option of appealing to the Supreme Court or complying with a lower court order to release information about his task force's contacts with the energy industry while drafting policy in 2001.

APPEAL SOUGHT ON ENERGY DOCUMENTS The Bush administration told a federal appeals court that it would ask the Supreme Court to review a decision that requires Vice President Dick Cheney to give the Sierra Club documents from his task force on energy. Last week, the full United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit let stand a panel's decision that the government had no basis to ask the appeals court to block a lower court's ruling that called for disclosure of information. Mr. Cheney has invoked executive privilege in keeping the documents secret. (NYT)

[janekat]

35. Folks - post anything you have.... with links if you can.... n/t

anyhting you can think of.....

[Ernesto]

36. You aln't crazy, janekat,

but these things take time. Yes the momentum seems to be picking up, but don't get too excited yet. ....... Just like the stock market, the sheeple are afraid of dissorder & uncertainty especially after 9-11. They want a leader that they can believe (with out too much research) in. The "high crimes & misdemeanors"that we DUers squawk about are just not blatent enough to reach "critical mass" with the sheeple. Realize that repuke watchers like us are well ahead of the learning curve on political affairs.... Be patient, do good work, our time will come. Don't stop thinking! History will define this gang as the blundering crooks that they are.

[chadm]

38. It would be nice if there were a "Reporter's Union"

so they could unite against the fascist corporate censorship and report the truth. Just a thought.

[Seneca]

40. the whole regime is a scandal

But they will get away with it, just like with Enron, Uranium, WMD, etc etc.

[janekat]

48. Let's start up a new thread - for this....

so people with info about this and links can post it on 1 thread.
I'm trying to organize all of this info and write it up.

So if we could have a thread for info and links ONLY.

Can someone help with this and maybe start up a new thread???

[gristy]

50. just stick with this thread

So if we could have a thread for info and links ONLY.

Another thread will just dilute the efforts of contributors. BTW, what are you writing and what is it intended for?

[grasswire]

53. Hughes and Matalin are back

...as paid consultants.