Here is the real deal on Clark running for president

[NNN0LHI]

It makes little difference whether or not Clark wins the nomination or not. Whomever wins the nomination is going to have Clarks support now. And Bush was really counting on himself being the war president to carry next years election. That dream has now been shattered into teeny tiny little pieces. Its gone. No more of this wrapping himself in the American flag bullshit will work. Bush cannot even count on the military and their families support in '04 now. There is more, but I will not keep blabbering about it, because this alone is very important right now. Don't start celebrating yet because there is much work to be done. But the end result of all of this is that we win next year.

Don

[rabid_nerd]

1. And not because Clark decided to run n/t

/

[Cappurr]

2. hmmmm

Neat analysis there Don.

[knowledgeispower]

3. Agreed

Somebody mentioned the prospect of Clark/Clinton in 2004. I can clearly see how ingenious that would be. It would get the WhiteHouse back in 2004, AND it would eventually get Hillary into the White House. It'd be like Reagan-Bush, only good.

[HERVEPA]

4. Bad Idea

No Hillary. Too high negatives with too many people.
What would Hillary do as president that Dean or Kerry wouldn't do.
SHe was pretty gung-ho on support of Bush for the war.

[NNN0LHI]

7. You may have a point? Thats what Rush and Hannity always say

And they are always right.

Don

[wakfs]

6. No way!

The Clintons are a lightning rod for trouble. A very loud minority despises them and the presence of Hillary anywhere NEAR the Democratic ticket spells trouble.

(Personally I like 'em.)

[TacticalPeek]

22. However:

"Mrs. Clinton soundly defeated her opponent, garnering 55 percent of the vote to Lazio’s 43 percent." http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/Election_Empirestakes001107.html

This in a state with R-darling Pataki as governor.

Also, if WJC could run again in '04, my money would be down against aWol.

Aside from this, Clark has his own way to make, obviously. Let's just not dustbin the Clintons.

[kentuck]

5. He is running as a "uniter" - not a "divider"...

And that will be a very strong message around this time next year, I would predict. But Bush and the Repubs were planning on running on the "Democrats are traitors" ticket and Clark shoots that all to hell.

[HFishbine]

8. Good Point

One more angle that I hadn't considered.

As a Deaner, let me just say, I'm glad Clark is in the race. I've invested some time and money in Dean's campaign, but I've also always maintained that the large field would be an ultimate benefit to democrats because it means we're really going to churn through the issues and utlimately come up with a candidate who is stronger for having gone through a process Bush is free from. Clark will only be a benefit to the process. I'm glad he's in. Welcome General Clark!

[benddem]

9. Military Veterans and Retirees

One thing that hasn't been getting much press is the anger of the Vets and Retirees. Highly republican Military in Florida have started their own party...the Vets. The Bush administration is truly screwing Vets and Retirees. Clark's candidacy has I think something to do with this.
I'm still a Deaner but I do like Wes Clark.:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[HereSince1628]

11. What % of the population is vets and retirees?

how much leverage are we looking at?

[NNN0LHI]

12. Every soldier & vet has hundreds if not thousands of relatives and friends

Just like you and me.

Don

[TreasonousBastard]

13. More to the point...

is that vets and retirees (often the same, btw) tend to vote more often than many other demographics. And they do talk politics in those Legion halls and retirement communities.

Hooboy! Do they ever talk politics in some of them! I know of ommunities where the management has had to step in with the fights over signs and demonstrations.

Given the choice of appealing to, say, 10 million, 90% of whom vote, or 20 million, 25% of whom vote...

[lanlady]

10. I've been wondering what took place behind the scenes

Pure idle speculation on my part, but I'm thinking Clark took a lot of phone calls in recent weeks from his old pals in uniform urging him to run and pledging their tacit support. A lot of military folks and their families are feeling betrayed by Bush et Co.

Also, Clark needs to get the media on his side. The TV folks seem to like him already, but it's too early to tell. If the media likes him, he'll be able to surmount the disadvantages of late decision and low coffers, and will coast to the finish line ahead of Bush.

[newsguyatl]

14. it's gonna be a Dean/Clark ticket folks

i'd be willing to bet all my savings on it (though little it is)...

starting in october, dean will take off and no one will be able to catch him anymore... i promise you.

[Emboldened Chimp]

16. Did you just hint at your October surprise?

[blm]

17. Even with the Firefighters campaigning AGAINST Dean?

This was in P&C:

Sparks are flying between the former Vermont governor and a crucial group in the New Hampshire primaries, the Professional Fire Fighters of New Hampshire labor union. The group's fiercely active 1,200 members and their highly visible mode of transportation were instrumental in Al Gore's defeat of Bill Bradley in the New Hampshire primary in 2000. This time, Dean is in the hot seat.

By Dana Milbank
Sunday, September 14, 2003; Page A06

Red-hot Democratic presidential aspirant Howard Dean is about to get some cold water thrown on his candidacy.
Sparks are flying between the former Vermont governor and a crucial group in the New Hampshire primaries, the Professional Fire Fighters of New Hampshire labor union. The group's fiercely active 1,200 members and their highly visible mode of transportation were instrumental in Al Gore's defeat of Bill Bradley in the New Hampshire primary in 2000. This time, Dean is in the hot seat.

It began when the Professional Fire Fighters of Vermont sent a letter in June to their brethren in New Hampshire warning that Dean "failed to ever put the weight of the governor's office behind any piece of legislation firefighters introduced." The Manchester Union Leader in New Hampshire got hold of the letter and produced a statement from Dean's campaign outlining his strong stance against . . . sparklers. "It's fair to call him a national advocate against sparklers," the statement said.

The firefighters were not impressed by Dean's opposition to party novelties. "We think he should be focused on first responders, not pyrotechnics," said New Hampshire union President David Lang, noting that the group is agnostic on sparklers.

Dean has twice blown off meetings proposed by the firefighters and hasn't been in touch with them since the last meeting was canceled on Aug. 22. The firefighters are steamed. "I'm glad New Hampshire's firefighters have a better response time," Lang said.

Dean's state director, Karen Hicks, sought to douse the conflagration on Friday. "We really look forward to meeting with the professional firefighters at a time when it works for Dr. Dean and Mr. Lang," she said.

But it may be too late. At the firefighters' parent union, the International Association of Fire Fighters in Washington, General President Harold A. Schaitberger said the IAFF is getting ready to endorse a presidential candidate at an executive board meeting at the end of the month. Schaitberger, who has met with all the major candidates, won't say who it will be, but people who have been following the endorsement sweepstakes say Dean will be hosed. Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) is said to be the heavy favorite for the endorsement, which would be his first from an AFL-CIO union.
>>>>>>>

[NewYorkerfromMass]

18. Damn it blm! Get with the program! DEAN walks on water! he is GOD!!!!

:)

[Emboldened Chimp]

19. Yeah, so?

We know this. What's your point?

;-)

[RevolutionStartsNow]

21. newsguy...

I think I love you!

Even if it doesn't happen just as you say, thanks for making my day!

I'll take that good feeling to my local Dean campaign organizing meeting tonight.

[MarianJack]

15. bush Wrapping himself in the Military...

...is going to be a very hard sell. Partly because of Gen. Clark and partly because of AWOL. I know that the media will once again give bush jr. a pass on the AWOL, but enough people like us will not let it die. Additionally, military people in general (no pun intended) have contempt for people who do what bush jr. did.

[blm]

20. They are going to get hit with it HARD.

This may also be why Cheney will likely be sacrificed and a military man put in the VP spot.