the g.o.p. keeps pushing us to the brink, how far will we let them push?

[mopaul]

they are assholes, the neocons, and assholes never give up, always want the last word, and hate losing, and we know how low they will go.

how low will WE go?

[rodeodance]

1. many groups/individuals have been pushing back--a critical mass

has not been reached yet-that is the problem. What will it take?--
For the life of me--I am at a loss at this point.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. I would say, bubba...

That the public's patience with this is wearing quite thin and getting thinner every day.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2004/10/26/AR2005032201677.html

He's getting into the area of having to stomp out small fires, constantly. That is indicative of bad planning and tactics. His meeting with the Saudi d00d is indicative that he's looking for a splashy way out, on something. Saudi d00d kinda told him to go intercourse himself.

These numbers are the statistical area where journalists get emboldened, for they will start needing the journos more than the journos will need them. That is in the area where such emboldening leads to journos reporting the stuff they have been sitting on, afraid that they will lose access should they report it.

I would say that they got themselves some real serious problems. A bid part if it is down to Rove. As one person said: "Rove doesn't think he won an election. He thinks he's been beatified".

That's the kind of stuff that gets people in trouble in Washington. He needs to ask DeLay how that works.

[Cleita]

15. This is part of the BFEE M/O isn't it?

Going back to Poppy Bush, they always look for someone, a relative, a friend to bail them out when they fail. This multi-billionaire elitist, solution to a problem is to get someone or the government to bail them out. Now that he's made a big mess he wants his father's Saudi buddies to bail him out.

It's typical of rich out-of-touch families. There is a great grandparent or greater out there who made the family fortune, often not all that legally, but he spoiled his children because he could afford to bail them out when they made mistakes. So it gets passed on from generation to generation and each generation is more dependent on these fail safes than the last.

I mean look at the Bush brothers. George Bush alone has been bailed out all his life from his failures. The government had to bail Neil Bush out from the Savings and Loan failure. Jeb Bush also a string of failures behind him that he's had to get family to pull him out of the mess.

If you haven't read Kitty Kelly's book, "The Family", she tells it all going back to granddaddy Prescott Bush.

[izzie]

3. Maybe but they also have the votes.

How things run may go back to who votes and about 45% do not vote so they get what about half of the rest wants. People will not vote until some thing hits them in the head.

[fasttense]

4. Seems to me that the general public in the US will take anything

the right wing nut cases are willing to throw at them as long as it is cloaked in religion.

[KharmaTrain]

5. People Don't Give A Shit

They'll bitch about gas prices, but that won't stop them from looking at that brand new SUV or take that long road trip this summer. Ignorance is bliss...and self absorbtion is encouraged by this culture. I know so many who live by the "If I don't see or feel it, it doesn't exist and don't complicate my life by making me think about it" mindset. They don't want to deal with problems outside their own world and, especially, if means it could affect their world. They like things simple if they pay attention at all.

Mike Malloy refers to this as the dumbing down of America, others call these people Sheeple...but they represent a large number of people who either go along with "the crowd" or just ignore anything that could create a controversy.

The Repugnicans do a great job in simplifying all issues and creating them in such black and white terms it's easy for someone to say "I'm for it" as much as they can say the contrary. A lot of these are "feel good" issues...carefully worded and manipulated. If you saw Frank Luntz on The Daily Show last week, this was a rare peek inside how this machine works.

I'd love to see 1,000,000 people marching on the Mall or several thousand at local rallies, but most people couldn't be bothered. They have been numbed into silence. It's gonna take more pain...knowing a loved one who was killed or maimed in Iraq, not being able to afford toys or have to do without basic services and watch their earnings stagnate while expenses continue to rise. Honestly, I don't see that happening any time soon.

[Thoth]

6. Well said Karma Train n/t

[H2O Man]

7. You are right.

I often think about Malcolm X talking about social novacaine. He used the example of when a person goes to the dentist, they get novacaine, because without it a person would put up a fight instead of sitting quietly when someone yanks a tooth out of their mouth. And Malcolm said that the American public has taken all types of novacaine, which allows them to sit peacefully while the government yanks more than teeth out of them.

I think that our culture has more social novacaines today than it did in Malcolm's day.

[KharmaTrain]

11. I Keep Wondering What It Will Take

There's a massive disconnect many people have between their plights and how this regime and the political/social climate it fosters has created. They see the catch-phrases, hear the buzzwords and get a reassurance that somehow allows this regime to escape scrutiny and responsibility...and is even emboldended to grab for more since they know how anesthestitized (pardon the spelling) this country has become.

Simplicity can't explain how the $3.25 a gallon they're paying somehow relates to a regime and powerful benefactors that profit from instability and profiteering. It's purposely muddied up so it's not easily traceable and those who try to do the tracing are portrayed as "unpatriotic".

Somewhere there's a tripwire the right wing will trip. Maybe they have with the religious one...might be with destroying the economy to the point where people face food, fuel and housing shortages, it might happen when schools are closed and thousands of young, out of work people look for someplace to vent their anger. Whatever it is, I don't see it happening without a strong alternative party/voice that can attract the numbed.

Cheers

[H2O Man]

12. Right.

I'm reminded of the story about the giant who is sleeping while his house is on fire. A group of people are in a panic, because they cannot figure out how they can get this huge sleeping man out before he dies in the fire. Finally a child says, "Wake him up and he'll get out by himself."

The question, as you are pointing out, becomes how do we wake the sleeping giant? How do we make them aware of their human worth? And of their human potential?

I do not pretend to have all -- or perhaps any -- of the answers. But I am convinced that it will not result from any charismatic "leader" or from any government agency. I think it has to happen at the grass roots level. People need to wake up, and to refuse to participate in the madness that is burning this old house down.

[KharmaTrain]

14. Too Many Little Houses

We agree on the need for the answer to come from the bottom up. The DNC has disconnected badly from many local parties and I'm still not convinced things are improving.

Many have formed their own special interest camps where they will give some lip service to someone else's cause, don't expect them to join you in the streets for yours. We've all become angry for different reasons and yet to find a real common ground...other than hatred for Commander Bunnypants to rally around. Fighting on the negative hasn't worked, it must be done on the offensive, and as you well noted, on the local, grassroots level.

The houses are burning, but there's not a system to distribute the water to put it out. Everyone wants a hose or to be the first in line. Others see this and it's understandable why they prefer not to get involved.

Cheers

[radwriter0555]

9. Uhmurrikkkans are too busy running to walmart to get all that toilet

paper to fill their 2 car garages with.

[radwriter0555]

8. Straight into the gulags, the camps and the ovens.

Is my guess.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Avalux]

13. Had a great conversation this AM -

a colleague and I had a political discussion (which never happens).
He's a moderate Republican and knowing I'm a Democrat, decided to let me know he is disturbed by what Frist and Co. are trying to do.

He asked "how on earth did a group of far right extremists gain so much power and how do we stop them?" I told him he is partially to blame for allowing them to hijack his party. I also told him to call our Senators and urge his republican friends to do the same - as reasonable Americans, we all need to pull together to stop the extremist agenda.

Also gave him a primer on Karl Rove - a name he's never heard before.

He's terrified. I like it. :woohoo:

[Cleita]

16. I dunno. We are either very smart or spineless.

When I lived in South America, fifty years ago, there would have been a revolution by now and the PNAC operatives all the way up to Bush would be hanging from the lampposts on the main street of the capitol city by then. I never found this latter solution to have a satisfactory outcome when it was a military coup though.

I wonder if a bloodless coup could be organized by labor? This has never been done and I wonder if there is a leader for us out there, brilliant enough and charismatic enough to lead us?

[Avalux]

17. Message

Ask any American - do you want to be told what you have to believe (ruled by the bible), or do you want to have the free will to choose for yourself (ruled by the Constitution)?

If we frame what's happening in our government with the above question, I would assume just about every American would choose the latter. We need to somehow make Americans understand this - and is there a leader who can do successfully drive it home? I don't know. Right now, I can't think of anyone.

[Cleita]

18. That's the problem. We need a Martin Luther King

or even a John Kennedy. I wonder if Paul Wellstone hadn't died if he would have been the one?

[Avalux]

19. Maybe

Look what happened to Wellstone though. Anyone who would be a true threat to Bushco would be threatened; it would take someone with great courage and selflessness and someone with a very strong presence, like King and Kennedy. We need that person NOW - we need someone to speak a nonpartisan message because I am convinced the majority of Americans are unhappy.

[Cleita]

20. You are right about extreme courage needed, because

the opposition mobsters will do anything to stop him/her, even murder. If we can identify this person and he/she steps up to the plate, we really need to circle our wagons to protect him/her. We know they will go after anyone who threatens them.

[Avalux]

21. I still have hope for Clark

but it probably isn't him; we'll see though. He will run again. I believe he truly cares about this country and has the ability to speak to everyone. He has often spoken the truth when others will not.

[Cleita]

22. Well, I'm a Deanie myself, but I have no problem with Clark.

I preferred him to Kerry. However, I believe that we need someone with more fire than either of the above, like a Paul Wellstone. Also, if history repeats itself, all the great leaders of social movements and revolutions have in the end been assassinated.

Look at Ghandi, King and Kennedy, all assassinated, but at least they fulfilled their mission before they died, so whoever does step up to the plate must look at that possibility in the face. The only charismatic, revolutionary leader that I can think of off-hand who is still alive is Nelson Mandela.

[Avalux]

23. Agreed.

And BTW; I have no problem with Dean either. I think Clark and Dean are similar in a lot of ways. :hi: