Mini Nukes! Thanks for nothing Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman, & Graham

[frank frankly]

Attention all Democratic Primary Voters:

These candidates avoided the vote that passed 51-40.

That pisses me off, almost as much as it terrifies me.

Please explain your candidates decision. They should have been fighting against this, tooth and nail. I am VERY disappointed in these candidates.

[ComerPerro]

1. Well, for starters, I don't think they could have stopped it

None of these people are my candidates. But I don't think that Congress can do much with Republican control.

[CMT]

22. so they knew it would pass anyway?

Is that the arguement? They still should have taken a stand with a vote against in the US Senate. If it had passed by only seven votes it would have had more impact than a double digit passing in the eyes of the world.

[ComerPerro]

37. Yeah you are right about that

Im just saying, even had they voted it would have passed. So I don't think they should be blamed for it passing.

[burr]

86. I disagree...

all that was needed were 41 votes, and the Democrats could of filibustered this! Graham, Kerry, and Lieberman could of provided the necessary votes to prevent the Senate from ending debate on the issue. That means it would have never been voted on!

[sangh0]

101. I believe you are wrong

I don't think this bill could be filibustered. It's a budget bill, wasn't it? Budget bills don't get filibustered, if IIRC.

[IndianaGreen]

44. It's the principle of the thing!

The fact that the same cast of characters voted for the Iraq war resolution should not escape notice either!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

47. Good point BUT.... the principle of the thing is to work on unseating Bush

Time wasted doing meaningless things like casting "principled" votes ina losing cause is time that would be better spent on the immediate and most important task at hand- that is getting rid of Bush.
When you get older you'll understand this.

[Eloriel]

60. Gee, can you please be a little more condescending?

I haven't had my fill yet today.

Eloriel

[Forkboy]

69. no kidding

"when you get older" :puke:

when you get smarter you'll undertsand IG.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

73. Sorry but when I see faulty reasoning I react.

I see IG demanding unreasonable things and making invalid criticisms, and unfairly coming down on Kerry for not being God.
And yes, usually with age people do get a little "smarter"- it's the normal benefit of fuller perspective, and the reality is that there simply is no substitute for experience.

[Forkboy]

77. How do you know how old IG is?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

84. I don't know a thing

it's all inference. But sometimes her comments betray a youthful naivety.

[Nederland]

102. Agreed

I don't know a thing

Truer words were never spoken.

[buddhamama]

91. what a load !

this vote was immediate and most important.

those who voted in favor,those who missed the vote are sending a message not just to the country but to the world.

we have no intention of living up to Treaties we have signed on to and, we are making the world a more dangerous place.

you can bet your ass this will send smaller countries into defense mode.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. LOOK again...THERE WERE 51 votes

Please tell me what difference they would have made. I believe Zell Miller voted FOR this as did Ben Nelson.

[arcane1]

6. but they didn't know that until after the vote..

they HAD to know it would be close!

[JI7]

10. they do know many times

before actual votes take place, they mostly know who will vote which way. daschle gets all their positions so he knows who is certain to vote for against, or undecided. this is how he knows when to call in the democrats who are campaigning or out for whatever other reason.

[dweller]

28. so now i can check off 4 more lo(o)sers on the list

so when it comes down to Anybody But *Bush, there they will be in the *footnote.

it's on record. So's my vote. I hope.
NO edwards,kerry, graham nor keeblerman.

and DK just keeps looking better and better.
dp

[T Bone]

70. Miller and Nelson could have stopped it

and the candidates would not have even had to have a cast the sought for 'principled' votes. :sheesh:

I am convinced that Miller and Nelson are Republican borgs of the Democratic Parties of their states.

[bahrbearian]

3. You know Chimpy can't wait to use one!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

19. oh boy i can just see chimpy rubbing his thumb & finger rapidly at the

potium he does it everytime he talks about war...and only when he speaks of "gettin'em dead or alive" and "smoke'em out" and "killing'em"....i can hear his thoughts as he does it "goody goody gum drops, goody goody gum drops" anyone else ever notice that?...it's like he is having multiple wargasms

[quinnox]

4. It wouldn't have mattered

The vote would have been 51-44, still passes.

[Tyler Durden]

8. THAT is not the point.

There is supposed to be something left called honor, and these guys should have been there to weigh in.

To me, this surpasses voting for the war: at least with the war they can claim they were lied to. In this vote, they just passed the buck.

[quinnox]

12. Irrelevent

If the vote would have been able to stop it, they would have been there.

[frank frankly]

16. that's what I think, too

They should have FOUGHT this!

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

7. Kerry's been CAMPAIGNING against mini-nukes for over a year now.

And has been the most vocal lawmaker against them. He said he'll completely cut out the whole mini-nuke program.

He also intends to cut out Star Wars from the Defense budget.

[twilight]

13. if Kerry is so against mini nukes then why wasn't here there for the vote?

Too busy fund raising I guess to vote huh? It wouldn't matter anyway ... yeah right! That's like it doesn't matter if I personally vote either now does it?

Its the principal of it. If Kerry is against these there is no excuse for being there to vote and formally making his opinion known to all. More of the BFEE IMO!

:dem:

[blm]

23. Baloney...the vote would have taken him off the campaign trail.

His record on this is clear and he has DEFINITELY been speaking against this for over a year. Even his announcement speech alerted about the mini-nuke issue.

Find one lawmaker who spoke out against this more than Kerry. He's been sounding the alarm on this all over the country.

[Forkboy]

25. "the vote would have taken him off the campaign trail."

well...that's a great reason :eyes:

[blm]

26. Name 1 Dem who spoke out more against

mini-nukes than Kerry.

[Rex]

27. If he did then why not show up to vote on the issue?

I understand what you're saying, but what will Kerry say when he gives his sound bite, "no one spoke out more on mini-nukes than I!" Then some mediawhore asks, "then why weren't you there to vote on it?"

NowhatI'msayin?

[Forkboy]

48. That isn't the point blm

he should have been there to vote...that issue is important enough to put the campaign on hold for ONE SINGLE AFTERNOON.

[blm]

50. He MADE it an issue more than any other Dem.

>>>>>>>
Pride is no substitute for protecting our young men and women in uniform. Half the names on the Vietnam Memorial are there because of pride -- because of a President who refused to admit he was wrong.  Pride is no excuse for making enemies overseas.  It is time to return to the United Nations, not with the arrogance of Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz but with genuine respect.  For the Bush Administration to reject the participation of allies and the UN is a miscalculation of colossal proportions.  We need to end the sense of American occupation as fast as possible and take the targets off American soldiers. 

In Iraq and across the world, we must share the burdens with our allies and the international community.  Then, and only then, can we assemble a worldwide coalition truly sufficient to defeat the terrorists -- to keep the most dangerous weapons out of their hands and out of the reach of unstable regimes.

Here again, George Bush is taking the world in the wrong direction.  He is poised to set off a new nuclear arms race by building bunker-busting tactical nuclear weapons -- smaller and more usable nuclear bombs. I don’t want a world with more useable nuclear bombs.  I don’t want America to turn its back on half a century of effort by every President to reduce the nuclear threat.  I’m running to put America where we rightfully belong -- leading the way to a new international accord on nuclear proliferation to make the world itself safer for human survival.
>>>>>>

[Forkboy]

53. see post #48

[KaraokeKarlton]

97. Don't you ever get sick of making excuses for Kerry?

Really, now. Is it any wonder so many people are disgusted with him? If that had of been a fundraiser he would have flown right in, made an appearance and then went off to wherever he was going next. Why is his votes any different? He was elected to do a job and he's not doing it. There is no excuse for missing such important votes. If he can't handle doing his job and campaigning for president he needs to give one of the things up to make sure someone is casting the votes he's missing.

[blm]

105. Don't you get sick of showing ignorance of how congress works?

Aren't you sick of bashing him COMPLETELY oblivious of all that he has done for this country and to fight the BFEE?

Aren't you sick of bashing the ONE person who did the most to expose Reagan and Bush and their covert dealings and that warned of funding of terrorism and its pitfalls in 1997? Gee...too bad no one listened.

[KaraokeKarlton]

107. I guess that would be a no, then?

I don't care what Kerry did 20 years ago. I'm sick of him doing nothing now. The more I read on his recent voting record, the more it appears the only time he even bothers to show up to vote at all is when Bush needs his support and vote. He doesn't miss those votes. Kerry appears to be in Bush's pocket. The more I hear, the less I like him...because no matter how good he USED to be, right now he sucks elephant d**k.

[loyalsister]

54. Kind of like

a political junkie who advocates a candidate yet on election day doesn't make it to the polls. If they can't show up to vote when they have been elected to do so, what in the hell kind of GOTV message can they possibly think they can send?

[MrPrax]

106. Heh...

Word to the GOP:
Schedule lots of 'principled' votes because Democrats are out on the campaign trail and apparantly this is an excuse for them not to vote on things that they are 'running' on the campaign trail about...

I think I get what Malcolm X said about this 'tricky'...
Good on Forkboy for highlighting this discrepency...

[Andy_Stephenson]

43. blm honee

please stop spinning for Kerry. If he was against mini nukes he would have been there and voted against them. But hey his PNAC advisors told him to miss it.

[IndianaGreen]

46. Kerry pays lip service to a lot of things

His lack of commitment and waffling core values are further evidence that he is not the sort of candidate that deserves our support. The saddest part is that Lieberman earns brownie points for the consistency of his message, no matter wrong it happens to be. With Lieberman we know what we are getting, with Kerry it depends on the time of day!

[blm]

49. Bullshit.

He was only going all over the country speaking against them. The vote wasn't there. You insist on remaining ignorant about Kerry.

Did any other candidate speak against the program? Only Kerry and Kucinich.

>>>>
Pride is no substitute for protecting our young men and women in uniform. Half the names on the Vietnam Memorial are there because of pride -- because of a President who refused to admit he was wrong.  Pride is no excuse for making enemies overseas.  It is time to return to the United Nations, not with the arrogance of Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz but with genuine respect.  For the Bush Administration to reject the participation of allies and the UN is a miscalculation of colossal proportions.  We need to end the sense of American occupation as fast as possible and take the targets off American soldiers. 

In Iraq and across the world, we must share the burdens with our allies and the international community.  Then, and only then, can we assemble a worldwide coalition truly sufficient to defeat the terrorists -- to keep the most dangerous weapons out of their hands and out of the reach of unstable regimes.

Here again, George Bush is taking the world in the wrong direction.  He is poised to set off a new nuclear arms race by building bunker-busting tactical nuclear weapons -- smaller and more usable nuclear bombs. I don’t want a world with more useable nuclear bombs.  I don’t want America to turn its back on half a century of effort by every President to reduce the nuclear threat.  I’m running to put America where we rightfully belong -- leading the way to a new international accord on nuclear proliferation to make the world itself safer for human survival.
>>>>>>

[Andy_Stephenson]

74. Actions....

speak louder than words.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

55. DONCHA THINK KERRY WAS LOBBYING SNOWE AND COLLINS???

G-DAMN IT!!! Perhaps for a moment could you consider that Kerry may have waged a REAL and HARD fight to get the sensible Republicans to vote against it??!!!

[Andy_Stephenson]

75. In a word

No

[Shae]

76. That's a very poor excuse

Kerry's major job is not to campaign ...
He should be protecting the interests of those he was elected to serve.

[frank frankly]

17. That's good to know!

Thanks for the info!

[twilight]

9. Mike Malloy was just on about this!

Totally pissed he is and he said he WILL NOT vote for any of the felonious four either (my words for this batch of WAR MONGERS!).

Excuses, excuses is right! I guess the were all out selling $1,000 lunches or some such crap.

I'm with Mike Malloy - I am not going to support any of the above either. Chickenshytes all of them! More of the same IMO!!!

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

11. well now they will NOT get my vote!!!!!!! FUCKERS!!!!

[twilight]

14. mine either because you are voting for more of the same

and then they run and hide and then they lie. Why don't people see the freaking pattern anyway?

:kick:

[Democrats unite]

18. I do see a pattern and it's not a pretty one.

eom

[twilight]

15. well at least Gephardt was there *sigh*

Our last choice possibly unless DK pulls off another miracle and you know what, he JUST MIGHT!

:dem: :kick: :dem: :kick: :dem:

[jiacinto]

66. Typical DU for you

Let's re-elect Bush because the far left can't get their way 100% of the time.

[Forkboy]

79. Typical Carlos for you

when you have nothing to say just blame the "far left".It's the ctach all refrain,just like "Clinton's cock".

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Iverson]

95. textbook intellectual dishonesty for you

Reframe a principled disagreement as a warrant that the other person wants his or her way 100% of the time.

Restate the aims of that disagreement in deliberately misleading terms, e.g.- "Let's re-elect Bush..."

Yes, it happens often, but people with the benefits of higher education have a particular responsibility not to make crappy arguments on purpose.

[tomp]

98. the far left gets its way...

...approximately zero percent of the time in the united states. what the hell are you talking about? to oppose graham edwards kerry and lieberman is barely leftist at all let alone far left.

[quinnox]

20. I wonder how many votes they will lose because of this

Maybe a dozen of them on DU. Oh my. Give me a break.

[Rex]

21. They should have at least shown up for the vote.

Now it will be used against them. Don't tell me this isn't an important issue - we are talking about nukes here folks!

[Pepperbelly]

24. I thought there were 53 votes in favor from what I saw yesterday ...

their votes mattered not at all. If it was going to be close, I think they would've been there.

[twilight]

31. if so, then you shouldn't bother to vote either

and for all of those that feel this way about this issue, your vote nor opinion does not matter nor count, so why bother with lifting your little finger to do it. Hmmmmphhh .... to all of you!

Bunch of hypocrites! The whole damn lot of them! Lying hypocrites!

And we want the BFEE OUT but this is ok?

Just say to Edward, Graham, Kerry and Lieberman - those that did not bother to vote against the mini nukes. They talk but don't walk their talk!

LIARS!!!


Vote for the unLIAR who was doing his job today in the House! I saw him and no he wasn't out looking for bucks like the rest of these loser slobs! No vote for me for any of them! NO VOTE FOR ANY OF THEM but hey that doesn't matter nor does your vote so go away!

[Pepperbelly]

33. whatever ...

but you make no sense. Try coming at it a bit more rationally next time.

[twilight]

39. your vote doesn't matter or count either

so, don't bother voting anymore. No one cares about what you think remember?

:dem:

[Pepperbelly]

62. get a handle on it, friend twilight ...

In the Senate, they know EXACTLY who is going to vote for what. It is the job of the Leaders and Whips to know that. If there was a chance that the votes would have changed this woeful outcome, they would've flown in to cast the votes. As it stood, with only Chafee crossing over to the Light and 4 or 5 Democrats crossing over to the darkness, the outcome of the vote was a foregone conclusion and symbolism is just that: symbolism.

[frank frankly]

71. against nukes, I applaud even symbolism

The point is we need fighters in Congress.
They could have brought attention to this.
Made the BFEE fight for this insanity. Publicly.

We need people in our government who fight!

"they give you two choices: be a rebel or a slave, so I rebel."
dead prez

[BeFree]

29. So, Clark is for mini-nukes?

Who said that? Just because he's a general and all that, huh?

[frank frankly]

30. kick

:kick:

[TheDonkey]

32. This issue will lose them 57 votes at most.... sheesh

If those 4 took the time to go back an vote against it, the bill would of passed as well as them wasting their time and money they should be using to be the NEW leader of the country and make sure it gets repealed. 51-44 doesn't do it.

[gully]

34. My candidate is not on the list, but let's remember the dems who voted nay

Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Breaux (D-LA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)

Also, I don't know why they can't vote absentee? Especially given that many are seeking office? They need to change that law pronto!

[frank frankly]

36. jump ship, Lincoln!

Chafee needs to leave the BFEE!

run, Lincoln, run!

He seemed genuinely pissed at Wolfowitz the only time I saw him.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

51. Fucking Miller, Snowe, and Collins!!!

G-DAMN it!!!! Geez! we even got Breaux and Landrieu on this one!!!

Fucking Snowe AND Collins shamed Maine on this one!!! Fuck them! Like do they make these nukes in Bath or something?

[frank frankly]

58. fuck them

they want their grandchildren to be vaporized!

think of the fetuses that will be "murdered", repubs!

[Rowdyboy]

35. Irrelevent...

Not my candidates but I certainly won't hold this against them. Allowing Republicans to schedule votes so they can determine YOUR schedule is stupid. It was going to pass. It did.

But if you're just looking for an excuse to condemn Democrats-ENJOY! Everytime we attack our candidates, Karl Rove is stronger. Help yourself.

[frank frankly]

38. I find nukes very scary

That's why I think it is relevant!

These lunatic BFEE morons want to end the world!

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LastDemInIdaho]

41. Are Mini Nukes not less bad than Maxi Nukes?

They should at least alert less terror. No?

[Pepperbelly]

81. no they are not and here is why ...

the lower the threshhold for using nuclear weapons. Smaller nukes make them easier to use and that is a very bad thing.

[HazMat]

45. Who cares? They didn't have the votes anyway.

Sheesh. I realize that some of the people on this forum are just out of highschool (especially the Dean groupies) but at least get a basic understanding of politics.

Before these votes go to the floor, each side knows what votes they have. The Dems didn't have the votes -- not even to make it close --even if all of our guys showed up.

You do know that the GOP does have the majority in the Senate and the House ? And if it was up to people like you who demand 100% purity, you'd toss 1/2 of the party out and we'd be relegated to permanant minority status.

[Q]

52. Jesus...this is not about politics...it's about America's future...

...and ALL Democrats should have been on record as opposing this insanity. That some of you think this is no big deal shows how shallow some Dems have become with their 'don't rock the boat' mentality.

- There is no rational reason for voting for the renewal of nuclear testing and the production of a new generation of nuclear weapons. Weapons the Bushies refer to as 'usable'.

- Only a few Dems voted for this...but it was just enough for the RWingers to spin this later as a 'bipartisan' vote.

- Those who take this so casually must not have lived through the times of duck and cover and worldwide contamination from nuclear testing. It took us decades of protesting and marching in the streets to stop this march towards self-destruction in its tracks. It took Bush* no time at all and a few cowardly Democrats to start it all over again.

- Shame on you if you think we shouldn't be concerned about Dems voting with RWingers to bring back this madness.

[frank frankly]

56. you said it better than me!

that's what I meant to say...

[blm]

59. Would you just look at this...who do you think

has been forcefully speaking out against the mini-nuke program for over a year now?

Kerry has been the one sounding the alarm all over the country. Too bad not many here on DU who think they know so much bother to listen.

>>>>
In Iraq and across the world, we must share the burdens with our allies and the international community.  Then, and only then, can we assemble a worldwide coalition truly sufficient to defeat the terrorists -- to keep the most dangerous weapons out of their hands and out of the reach of unstable regimes.

Here again, George Bush is taking the world in the wrong direction.  He is poised to set off a new nuclear arms race by building bunker-busting tactical nuclear weapons -- smaller and more usable nuclear bombs. I don’t want a world with more useable nuclear bombs.  I don’t want America to turn its back on half a century of effort by every President to reduce the nuclear threat.  I’m running to put America where we rightfully belong -- leading the way to a new international accord on nuclear proliferation to make the world itself safer for human survival.
>>>>>

[Forkboy]

67. see post #48

[blm]

72. Tuff. He couldn't do anything about the numbers.

He CAN do something about them as president. Unlike the guy who said he wouldn't cut the defense budget. Only Kucinich and Kerry actually TALK about cutting some defense programs.

[Forkboy]

80. I could give a shit less about "unlike the other guy"

Kerry should have been there.

[gottaB]

88. Braun has also mentioned cutting certain missile programs

and star wars.

"Nuclear deproliferation begins at home."

Has this been asked of all 9 in a debate?

Some debate agendas are posted for upcoming debates, but I can't remember if defense spending is slated.

[lazarus]

57. Dems who voted for it

Dems voting for it:

Bayh (D-IN)
Hollings (D-SC)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)

If these 5 had changed their votes, and the Running Men had bothered voting, it wouldn't have passed.

[Terwilliger]

61. OH MY I....how could these Democrats possibly support Repubs?!??!

What's wrong with them?? Have they been listening to Nader again??

[ShimokitaJer]

63. That's reason enough for them to have come back and done their job

So that these five could be made to take responsibility for the failure. Does the word Democrat have any meaning anymore?

[blm]

65. If those five had changed their vote

then those running would have been there.

Be realistic.

[Nazgul35]

64. It boggles the mind sometimes...

perhaps in the rush to defend their candidates, the forgot a little thing called a filibuster....you know, that things that deep sixed the repug judge.....

They may not have been able to prevent this on a floor vote, but they could have prevented it from ever coming up for a vote...

I have to say...this doesn't bode well for the fight against the $87 billion blank check the Congress is about to hand Bush....of course, you'll hear plenty from the Senate Dems running, but hey, what can they do, they dont have the votes.....more like they don't have the backbone and therein is the problem....

Can we get over the whole....great statesmen, figherts for all us poor folk....cause it seems when the chips are really down, we don't hear a peep out of these guys!!!

To recap:

1) They screwed us on the tax cuts...
2) They screwed us on the Iraq resolution...
3) They screwed us on the 9/11 investigation...
4) They screwed us in the 2002 Congressional elections...
5) They screwed us on mini nukes....

They're gonna screw us over:

$87 billion for Bush's Iraqi Adventure...
$60 billion to go on the ride a second time...
Hey, what the hell...let's try some more tax cuts....
Oh, yeah, and the pork the Repugs are going to flood the zone with before next year's election...

And if they win the nomination:

They'll run a candy ass, ohhh please don't hurt me campaign....

Remember, they didn't get any balls until they saw how Dennis and Howard used theirs....

*the opinions expressed in this rant are the sole property of Nazgul35 and any similarity to any person living or dead is just too damn bad!!!! :evilgrin:

[frank frankly]

68. that's the spirit!

marvelous post

[Trek234]

78. There is no excuse

I have no problem with a senator running for POTUS so long as they still attend to the senate PRIMARILY over running at all times.

If they can't do that then they should resign as a senator and then campaign.

[Andy_Stephenson]

83. GE makes these mini nukes....

Kerry and Teresa have investments in GE...Is there a correlation? I think there is.

[frank frankly]

85. late late night

kick

[stickdog]

87. Woo hoo! Frosted mini-nukes!

At least Kerry was on the frosted side of this vote.

[Kamika]

89. Listen its really simple

If they would vote no everyone would say they are pussies, unpatriotic etc etc, they couldnt have stopped the bill anyway, so why lose votes?

[Q]

90. It looks as if they could have stopped it...

...as mentioned above. Take the five Dems plus those who didn't show up to vote...it WOULD NOT have passed.

- In plain words: the Dems gave the fascists another one that they should have at least fought against and been on the record as opposing.

- This type of jellyfish vote from the Dems and another giveaway to the Bushies goes a long way in explaining why the Green party exists.

[sandnsea]

92. NOT the final bill

This still has to be hashed out in a House/Senate Committee. It's part of the Energy bill so if the Republicans want some of their oil stuff, they're going to have to give up these mini nukes, for one, to get it. Today's vote wasn't important enough for Senators to stop their campaigning.

It's clear to me that alot of people just want to hate Democrats and will go to any lengths to do that.

[Q]

94. Oh, bullshit...

...this kneejerk response that we just want to 'hate Democrats' is just plain silly. Since I'm a Democrat...you're suggesting that I hate myself.

- They're not 'hashing out' whether to build a new generation of nukes. That's a done deal. What they're hashing out is how the booty will be divided.

- If the renewal of nuclear testing and MORE nukes isn't 'important' enough to stop campaigning for a day...then what the hell is?

[sandnsea]

96. You're flat out wrong

First, if you're not one that is just on a regular rampage to bash every Democrat in Congress, I apologize. Too many are and this thread shows it. It's absolutely revolting.

And the nukes IS NOT a done deal. This was an amendment to the Energy Bill and that Bill hasn't been finalized or passed. The mini nukes are already in the House bill anyway so the debate is still going to have to happen. They aren't done with this. Showing up for this vote is completely unnecessary and pointless. Kerry is in California campaigning for Gray Davis and that's alot more important right now than flying back to D.C. for a vote that changes nothing. I don't know what the rest are doing, but they didn't need to disrupt their schedule to make this vote.

[Hubert Flottz]

93. Go to opensecrets.org to see why who does what in Washington

A no show is just as bad as a yes vote for Bushco! Where was the champion of the labor movement when the overtime bill passed in the house by 3 votes? In Wall Street's pocket collecting his blood money! I will not vote for a globalist Drone!

[FubarFly]

99. It's about leadership.

Or failed leadership.


Graham, Lieberman, Edwards, and Kerry are all vying to be leaders of the Party. Five Democrats voted for this bill, and each of these so-called leaders was a no-show. Two things:

Either they supported the bill which is despicable,

Or they were unable or unwilling to display the leadership qualities it would take to get the rogue Dems back in line.

No matter what, they should have been on record as opposing this outrage. There is no excuse for not fighting. None.

I am still ABB, although I can't honestly say for how much longer. Incidentally, if Dean, Clark or any of the other non-Senate candiates don't condemn this, then they go on my sh*t list as well. This vote is a crime against humanity. I am deeply dissapointed in the Democratic Party right now, hopefully not irrevocably so.

[KaraokeKarlton]

100. It's chafes my bum to no end

That so many votes are being missed and cast for Bush by Democrats. I'm sick of it.

[reachout]

103. Strategy

As much as I oppose the devlopment of so-called "useable nukes" (that phrase sends a shiver down my back), I think it may have been a strategic decision on the part of leading Democrats.

What this appropriation did was allow funding to "research" the technology, however a catch was left in it that the President must return to Congress for a further appropriation to acutally develop them.

I'm not saying I think it was the best course, but I believe some of them may be taking their chances on things changing in 2004.

[Cocoa]

104. I don't care about the symbolic stuff

I don't think any of those senators is pro-mini-nukes, it's a matter of not having the votes.

The "missed votes issue" is a phony issue, imo.

[frank frankly]

108. the vote was actually 53-41

sorry for the wrong numbers (very sorry!)

but I believe the points (on both sides) are still valid.

some people say they should have been there,
some people say it didn't matter.

it seems that nukes are important to everyone, but damn it's a lot easier to do rather than undo something. it was terrible news.

this decision may stay with us for awhile.

thanks for the responses!

[KG]

109. dems chose political expediency over doing the right thing

again? yawn :boring: