The USA are on war with France !!!

[BonjourUSA]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/18/opinion/18FRIE.html?th

Journalists should take care when they use certain words.

[demnan]

1. To my friends in France

I am sorry, our President is an asshole and as you can see, so are most of our journalists.

Just remember that we have been taken over by an administration most of us didn't vote for. Pity us.

[central scrutinizer]

39. What an embarrassment

Friedman should walk his talk and immediately head to Afghanistan to replace one of the French soldiers that are fighting side by side with American troops.

[Cheswick2.0]

2. sorry friend

We are in the grips of a fascist Coup. Even our journalist have gotten stupid and/or are liars. Perhaps France can join with the other Nations of the World and monitor our next election. Those of us who know the last two (I am including some of the 2002 races) were stolen would really appreciate your help.

[Kellanved]

3. Wow, every time I think the NYT can't sink any lower ...

something like this happens.
And that even after Bush practically admitted that "old Europe" was right all along :shrug: .

Friedman lives in a strange reality. I don't see that more troops translate to more security/a better development. As for the money: as long as the calls for transparency and accountability go unanswered, I don't see any more European money than the current development aid in Iraq (a few 100M). Not that €5B would be more than the proverbial drop in a bucket.

[BurtWorm]

21. Friedman is a globalization-obsessed, Israeli-security-obsessed crank.

Do European columnists take the liberty of speaking for their governments? Just curious.

[Kellanved]

30. They do

Not that different - in fact sometimes it seems to me as if they're using Safire as a template. (Then again: I can't remember the last time a columnist argued in favour of the Government - :shrug: - the liberal media...)

[BurtWorm]

37. Safire's problem is that he was the government--part of it, anyway

I don't know what Friedman's confusion is based on. I think it's a sports thing, rooting for and identifying with the home team, which is an attitude that's endemic among US journos.

[Kellanved]

47. Interesting

I don't think it's a mistake to identify with the "home team" (something rarely done in our Media - the home team is bashed - be it in sports or in "real life"); however Friedman’s column is published in European Magazines as well (for example in Germany's Der Spiegel; and many people read the NYT itself) - he could at least watch his words. Why is he declaring France an enemy? I think "Rival" is a pretty strong word, no need to overdo it.
His analysis isn't that sharp either: I heard the same thing in the days prior to the war by our opposition (" Throw in our forces now, it will make Saddam surrender"). The argument was as faulty then as it is now.

[BurtWorm]

54. He's not paid to think. He's paid to bloviate.

He's a professional gasbag. As are most pundits in the US.

[scarletwoman]

4. Friedman is insane

The guy has gone over the edge.

If France were serious, it would be using its influence within the European Union to assemble an army of 25,000 Eurotroops, and a $5 billion reconstruction package...

Oh Really, Tom. Why should ANY country feel obligated to cater to YOUR delusions?

Time constraints prevent me from mounting a point-by-point rebuttal of Friedman's nonsense. I can only express my utter contempt for his "white man's burden", we-must-remake-the-world-to-conform-to-OUR-superior-blueprint colonialist mindset. And even there, words fail me...

sw

[bluesoul]

5. Where have all the liberals gone?

As an outsider (European) I always thought of NYT as a more liberal left leaning newspaper, but judging on people like Friedman and the likes it apparently isn't so. So much about liberal bias....

[sandnsea]

6. What a total ass

The Muslims are coming! The Muslims are coming! Oh certainly, Muslim extremists take over Iraq and that means French Muslims are going to suddenly prefer that to democracy and freedom. Friedman must have the French Muslims confused with Alabama fundamentalists. I fear the radical uprising by our own fundamentalists alot more than I do any Muslims. Too bad Freidman doesn't see the danger in *his* own backyard.

[BonjourUSA]

10. French Muslims are only less 8% to practice their religion

The fundies are too much present in our suburbs but very much less than in London where they preach Jihad in the streets without to be bother by the police.

[October]

19. Kick

Well said.

[glarius]

7. Friedman is not the only journalist I have heard say "others" should send

troops to replace Americans in Iraq....What makes these guys think countries that didn't want this insane war would want to send their young people to become sitting ducks targets in Iraq? My country (Canada) is donating money, which is fine with me, but I sure don't want our young people to go over there....France, no doubt feels the same way!

[Mairead]

9. He's not a 'journalist', he's a propagandist

[w4rma]

13. I agree. Friedman is a propagandist with seemingly no care about

how his words will be perceived outside of the US. He an apologist for the GOP.

[edzontar]

8. Friedman seems like a free-associating madman here...

I have seen him on several shows lately and his basic take on the Iraqmire is that WMDs were never a big deal and that "regime change" was the best and only motive for the invasion--AND HE SUPPORTS THIS DOCTRINE...which reveals him to be a lunatic in my eyes.

I think what we have here is Amnerika's leading "opinion-whore" or the ME and the Muslim world, a man who does not read or speak Arabic and whose ultimate loyalty is to some sort of corporate-Western suprematist religion.

He is very very scary.

[imax2268]

11. What...?

Who the hell is this assmunch...?

See the only problem with a free press is that assholes with "NO CLUE" what-so-ever are allowed to spew this type of bullshit...

makes me sick...

get a real job Friedman...

[carolinayellowdog]

16. Pulitzer-winning author of From Beirut to Jerusalem

and first runner up in the "how far they have fallen" contest among formerly respectable journalists turned shameless Bush whores. But grand prize clearly belongs to Bob Woodward, whose once illustrious name will go down in infamy.

[ewagner]

44. True

I used to respect Friedman. I thought The Lexus and the Olive Tree provided some great insights into the ramifications on globalization.

But I agree: He's Lost IT!

[Hamlette]

55. how far they have fallen is right

glad someone posted this thread. I used to respect him. But get this:

"If you add up how France behaved in the run-up to the Iraq war (making it impossible for the Security Council to put a real ultimatum to Saddam Hussein that might have avoided a war)"


He has gone totally insane.

What on earth is he talking about? There were no weapons of mass destruction and no connection to 9-11. Why did we have to invade Iraq IMMEDIATELY? France was just asking for more time to let the inspectors do their job. There was talk about France joining us if the inspectors could have 4 extra months. But Bush and Blair said Saddam was going to attack us in 45 minutes!

[liberalmuse]

12. If all else fails, blame the French...

France has been our oldest and staunchest ally. Friedman is full of shit. I agree with one line: 'France was right'. They sure were, and all the more reason they shouldn't sacrifice a single dime or soldier to this administration's ill-fated effort in Iraq. Fuck you, Friedman.

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. Oldest yes, staunchest no

Britain is clearly America's staunchest ally. If you want to push into minor powers a case can be made for Australia or Israel. But I think Britain is far ahead of the pack.

[liberalmuse]

15. France supported us during the Revolution...

against Great Britain, but if it makes you feel better, I'll change it to, 'France is one of our oldest and staunchest allies.' These days, the British government is willing to follow America into hell, so I guess they should get credit for that.

[Isere]

42. It's the last refuge of scoundrels!

It's a sad, sad day when we project our frustrations on our old friends and allies! The whole misadventure in Iraq has gone so far amok that someone has to take the blame. Who better than our arch-enemy France?

I am sick at heart and mad as hell. Assez!

"Il pleure dans mon coeur
Comme il pleut sur la ville..."

[Mandate My Ass]

17. This more embarrassing than "Freedom Fries"

Friedman would have to reach up to scratch a snake's belly. That commentary is not only unprofessional and illogical, it reads like an adolescent hissy fit.

[bearfartinthewoods]

18. i do hope you are aware that you are speaking with

or at least hearing from a rather unique portion of the US populace. many people in this country will agree with the article to some extent. like me for example, who would rate the article at at least a seven out of ten on the right on scale.

[BonjourUSA]

20. Yes, I'm aware

that I'm speaking with some suvivors of Alamo ;-)

[ShaneGR]

22. I hate to say it but, HE'S RIGHT!!!!!

Look, the French are a bunch of sniveling asswipes. While I happened to agree with them on Iraq I personally think that if Bush had ignored Iraq, the French would have demanded invasion. They pulled the same crap during the entire Clinton Administration. It's not about ideology to them, it's about power.

Flame away. I can take it, I'm a liberal!

[Forkboy]

23. lol

I'm a liberal!

sure you sgr2...sure you are.

[ShaneGR]

24. Well, let me see here

I'm a strong Democrat. I hate Bush. I'm pro-choice, pro-labor, pro-environment, in favor of gun control, for progressive taxation, and in favor of a more humble foreign policy.

So, yes I am a liberal.

But I'm not blind to the fact that when we beat Bush in 2004 the French will treat a Democratic President with just as much backbiting. They have an interest in consolidating power within the European Union. That interest isn't served well by a powerful United States.

[Forkboy]

26. liberals dont insult an entire nation by referring to them as "asswipes"

because of the actions of it's leaders.

[Evil_Dewers]

33. That means we are asswipes...

because of the actions of our "leaders."

[Minstrel Boy]

28. It's one thing to say the French

"have an interest in consolidating power within the European Union." It's another to call them "sniveling asswipes." One is a reasonable and informed analysis, and the other is freep-worthy, hateful blather.

[Evil_Dewers]

31. Dear cheese eating surrender monkeys...

Bring it. Bring it on...

[Evil_Dewers]

29. Bill Clinton should run for president of France...

According to their constitution, he is eligible to run since he is a descendent of the French who settled in old Louisiana.

[BonjourUSA]

43. Of course, we need to consolidate power within EU

All powers need counterpowers. But that doesn't mean against.

You have got Bush perhaps you'll get another one a day. And if a counterpower exists perhaps another "Iraqi adventure" will not be possible.

[Evil_Dewers]

27. Time to give back...

the Statue of Liberty along with a million grosses of "freedom" fries and "freedom" toast.

[Paschall]

36. Really?

"I personally think that if Bush had ignored Iraq, the French would have demanded invasion. They pulled the same crap during the entire Clinton Administration."

During the Clinton years, the French governments--both left and right--pushed to relieve the UN sanctions on Iraq for humanitarian reasons. Is that what you're saying is the "same crap" as a murderous invasion and occupation?

"...the French would have demanded invasion." ROFLAO! You know NOTHING about the French!

Read this carefully (and remember where the US was in Vietnam as De Gaulle spoke) http://www.charles-de-gaulle.org/article.php3?id_article=530

[BonjourUSA]

40. Millions people in the street…

were there about power ? In France and elsewhere ?

France worked with Clinton in all the great world affairs. Our soldiers was and always are with ours in all the fights where the world security is really in danger. From the beginning of 2002 to beginning of the war on Iraq, French leaders, TV, press... said what the USA was going to live. You're living it now and we're not responsible for.

BUT we know that we will have to go over there too. BUT not under any conditions

[DisgustipatedinCA]

50. You promised you were leaving

I remember it clearly. You were going on a self-imposed exile until after the primaries.

And yet, here I am reading this jingoistic garbage. Again.

What happened to your promise?

[Evil_Dewers]

25. France has an aircraft carrier...

nuclear bombs and nuclear missiles. Tom works in Manhattan. All DU'ers please vacate the tri-state area.

[Kellanved]

32. Two carriers (n/t)

[Evil_Dewers]

34. I know about the Charles DeGaulle...

what's the name of the other carrier?

[Kellanved]

35. Foch

Edit: Sorry, that one is decomissioned. One Carrier.

[lanlady]

38. ne faites pas attention a Friedman

He supported the war on Iraq mainly because he has such a low opinion of Arabs. They're Untermensch, to be alternately invaded, pitied, put down. Now Friedman's deluded himself into believing that France is to blame not just for the war itself, but also for the bad aftermath. You French just didn't try hard enough to stop les Busheviques, so it's all your fault!

Here's hoping that the French embassy or UN delegation writes to the Times to set the record straight and urge Friedman to get a grip.

[Iverson]

41. vraiment!

Cher ami, ecoutez-moi. C'est dommage, mais le "President" est fou, et il a la merde dans la tete. Aussi dommage, le New York Times toujours donnent une pousse a la derriere de Bush et les fascistes.

Pardonnez-moi pour le mots que ne sont pas tres bon. Ma dernier class de Francais etait en 1978.

[Wednesdays]

45. Vous êtes pardonnés.

;)

L'arbuste vraiment a la merde dans la tete.

[BonjourUSA]

49. No, Bush = "buisson" in French :

In a bush we can find brambles and thorns

[BonjourUSA]

46. I believe my english is so bad as your French

But thank for you effort.

Dégagez Bush de la WH. Sinon je pense sincèrement que nous courons vers la catastrophe.

[Forkboy]

48. dammit....I knew I should have paid attention in French class!

[Evil_Dewers]

52. Gerhard Schroeder und Jacques Chirac

werden jetzt vereinigt. Bush ist ein vereinige, nicht ein Teiler.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

53. Hahahahaha! Some things NEVER change!!

Please be clear I am only teasing you Bonjour, but the time I spent in France was EARMARKED by Parisiennes who would say what you just said (only they MEANT it to be rude....you've gotta admit they are NOT the best examples of hospitality) Your post just gave me a chuckle as I was 17 and got the DIRTIEST looks when I spoke French in Paris....in Nice it was quite different :D

[soleft]

51. Holy f*cking sh#t! - It's France's fault we couldn't avoid war with Iraq??

(making it impossible for the Security Council to put a real ultimatum to Saddam Hussein that might have avoided a war)

Oh my God!!!!!
Get a freaking straight jacket for this guy.