A Clark-Dean Ticket Is The Only Logical Answer

[THUNDER HANDS]

Two great tastes that taste great together. An ex-military man with little political experience and an exprienced politician with no military history.

But, (and you knew there'd be a but) Dean has to be the vice presidential nominee. Has to.

Clark has the establishment lining up in droves behind him. Dean has the grassroots lined up behind him.

Combine those two forces and it's an unstoppable ticket.

If Dean supporters can handle the consolation prize of VP, then a lot of Dean's grassroots support can transfer to Clark and virtually assure that Clark hits the ground running.

Clark will present a tougher, wiser, more skilled face to America and Dean will get the die-hard Dems to follow through.

Sure Dean wants to be president, but if he can't sustain his momentum should Clark rise, then it would be foolish for Dean to not at least inquire about a VP position.

I would be very comfortable with Dean as VP. And any Dean supporter should feel the same way.

[LightTheMatch]

1. Should work either way.

Either one of them on either side of the ticked should work for us just fine.

[THUNDER HANDS]

6. i disagree

I think Clark has to be the guy. He has to be the face we present to America.

Clark smiles more than Dean.
Clark is better looking than Dean.
Clark is the face the Dem. party needs at this moment.

Dean is, to be honest, going to be used. He's my choice for VP because of his grassroots supporters. We need footsoldiers, and a ton of them, to beat Bush.

But Dean can't carry a ticket, let alone an entire party. IMO.

[bitchkitty]

17. I'm surprised -

I have read your posts for a while and you did not strike me as being shallow.

Clark smiles more than Dean.
Clark is better looking than Dean

Who cares about how anyone looks? It's how he resonates that counts, and honey, Dean resonates. I want the better man, who in my view is Governor Dean.

[stickdog]

23. Clark is the military man, but Dean comes across as tougher.

And more real.

[indigo32]

41. Since you brought it up

I would have to say, I've seen Dean in person and he is quite good looking and has an awesome smile.

[THUNDER HANDS]

42. lol

I never said Dean wasn't a good-looking guy. But Clark is taller, thinner and has such a cute ass.

:evilgrin:

[papau]

47. Initial media response - per ABCNOTE

Christine Iverson, a spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee, said the retired general's candidacy only 'means more noise, more discord and more Democrat-versus-Democrat disagreement on Iraq policy, taxes, trade and other issues

The Washington Post 's VandeHei found Clark's speech to be "choppy and lack(ing) rhetorical flourish";

Wall Street Journal 's Schlesinger/Schaefer/Hitt skim the surface of Clark's post-Pentagon private sector dealings, without finding much all that good or bad — yet.

[wakfs]

2. What about the reverse?

A Dean-Clark ticket would also be formidable. Dean in the top spot could appeal to the democratic base and ensure a big turnout while easily sold nationwide as a "moderate" (which is what he really is, IMO) and Clark would balance the ticket with the security cred and the appeal to southerners.

[THUNDER HANDS]

8. if you want to appeal to the base

You do it with the VP candidate. Since the base already knows who they are and will vote for the party anyway.

I'm looking to appeal to independents and moderates, and I think Clark does that better than Dean.

Dean will fire up the base. But I'm not sure if he's the face we want to put on the party.

[ScreamingMeemie]

15. A lot of those who like Dean and Dean's ideas, are not really strong on

Clark. I always tend to look to what my husband thinks, as a non partisan voter. While he has issues with Dean,NAFTA, Clark totally turns him off. I will add a disclaimer that this is how he feels right now. We'll see in the future. I haven't heard or read enough positive about Clark to jump on his wagon. Frankly, I'm a little interested in finding out his motivation for wanting the presidency. He just hasn't been too clear about that.

[w4rma]

33. Note: Both Dean and Clark are pro-fair trade, revise/rewrite NAFTA (n/t)

[creativelcro]

30. Clarck = Dr. Strangelove

BS. Nobody wants a Dr. Strangelove for prez. -CV

[TLM]

48. This election, like 92, will be about the economy stupid.

Dean is the 800lb gorilla on domestic issues. Dean has the experience, Dean has the support base, Dean has the momentum, Dean has the record, and Dean has the money.

Dean's only problems are that people do not think he's very strong on defense and he's a north eastern dem. Clark would fit much better in the VP slot, to balance out the ticket perfectly... as well as get 8 years of experience as VP to be ready to run in 2012.

[prolesunited]

3. That should be Dean-Clark

j/k :P I'm waiting for the dust to settle a bit in order to sort out the issues based on facts, not bashing and bomb-throwing. Any of the candidates are better than Bush and we have an interesting field.

[FreeperSlayer]

4. When I see Dean, I smell McGovern

Sorry to say that, but that's what worries me about Dean (that, and the fact that I'm getting OLD!). I guess what I'm trying to say is that it FEELS the same, vibe-wise.
I remember that ass-kicking like it was yesterday; and folks, it was frickin' humiliating.
Vote Clark.

[R Hickey]

9. Clark - Dean

Clark would also be ok with one of the other contenders like Edwards, Graham, or Senator Clinton, or even Gore as a VP again.

Clark looks more electable than Dr. Dean. Both men have alot going for them.

[Tyler Durden]

12. When McGovern sees Dean, he smells McGovern.

Is this a BAD THING? Certainly not. I worked for McGovern as a college student; he was the best we had and we suffered for his loss.

But we can't carry the country with that sort of campaign, as much as we would like to.

Clark/Dean. Sounds better every time I hear it.

[w4rma]

35. There are *extremely* big differences between Dean and McGovern

McGovern ran a campaign that was poorly funded.
Dean is running a campaign that is better funded than any other Democratic campaign (especially Clark's who has $1 million in *pledges* to donate later.)

McGovern ran a campaign when there was no internet to help coordinate and comunicate.
Dean is running a campaign that has mastered communication over the internet to help coordinate and comunicate and respond faster than any other Democratic campaign to attacks.

McGovern's attitude was to no matter what, never comprimise your principles, do not moderate. A liberal Goldwater.
Dean is a centrist. He says he's a centrist. He governed as a centrist. Dean is a passionate centrist. His supporters know he's a centrist and have all agreed to disagree on various issues depending on what they support to come together as a team. You probably won't always agree with him, but he'll do his best to get you to understand where he stands.

[Terwilliger]

14. When I see Dean I see a DLC front-man

so, Dean is the DLC choice...Clark is the DLC choice...the DLC LOST the presidency AND both houses of Congress...I wish you all good luck :eyes:

[stickdog]

25. When I see "McGovern," I smell DLC, Rove and cow manure. (NT)

[ElkHunter]

45. I remember it too...proudly.

Yes, I'm proud to have actively supported McGovern in '72. Why is that the Rupugs can embrace their hero Goldwater, who got his butt handed to him in the '64 election, but we Dems run from the memory of McGovern? It's because for conservatives Goldwater was a political hero who represented all that they stood for. They took his defeat as a call to arms and, with the election of Reagan, eventually won. For liberals McGovern also represented our political views in the same way that Goldwater represented conservatism. Yet in the interest of winning we ran from "McGovernism" instead of standing for our principles. We need to learn from our conservative opponents to stand for our political principles and to fight for them. Given the current shape of the Democratic party I do not see what jettisoning our principles in favor of winning has accomplished.

[soleft]

5. Yeah, I'd be cool with that. Or vice versa.

I think Clark can probably grab more swing voters, especially progressive leaning centrist males and soccer moms worried about national security. The fact that he's led military interventions will counteract the McGovern factor.

[Upfront]

34. McGovern Factor?

Nice neo-con talking point. I don't buy it. Here stands one Dean grass root that will not be easily diverted to another man. Dean has led the fight, and the polls, I don't see that changing. Thus far not enough is know about Clark. Give it some time. Trust me on this one, the rethugs are worried about both Dean and Clark.

[Gman]

7. Boy are you going to get flamed...

for putting Dean second!

[Yupster]

10. No Clark Dean

IMO, if Clark gets the nomination, he will need a VP who has lots of Washington experience since he has none in elective politics or legislation. Therefore, I cant see Dean who also has no Washington experience.

Too easy to criticize. With America facing its stiffest challenge since WWII, and congress deeply divided, the Democrats want to elect a ticket where neither of the men have a bit of knowledge in how the congress works.

I'd guess if Clark wins the nod, he'll pick a Lloyd Bentsen type guy.
Gephardt, Feinstein, Kerry, Biden, Dodd.

[Bucky]

13. experience

It's probably an oversimplification of Clark's career to say that he's had "no experience working with Congress." As a leading 4 star general, he's had plenty of face time with MC's.

[Yupster]

32. I agree with you Bucky

so who are you quoting?

[Bucky]

11. Dean's problem with that

My impression is that Dean lacks the temperament to be anyone's #2. TalkingPointsMemo.com's Josh Marshall believes that the Dean camp attempted to stall off support for Clark last week by claiming the two of them had held discussions about Clark veeping for Dean. Accepting the junior slot from Clark after such a ploy would be too bitter for Deanies to swallow, I think.

Josh Marshall called this rumor-milling a "dirty trick." I don't think it's all that dirty per se, just hardball politics from a typical politician like Dean. If Clark can't handle such boiler-plate tactics from Dean, I doubt he could handle whatever crap the GOP is going to dish out.

[TLM]

50. ANd what about the chance that Dean and Clark

did meet and talk about the VP slot?

John Marshall can believe what he wants, but how exactly does his spin mean that Dean supporters wouldn't vote for a Clark/Dean ticket?

[kentuck]

16. Not necessarily...

It's not the only "logical answer"...What if you had two Silver Star winners vs two "chicken hawks"? That might be considered a logical answer also...

[Buns_of_Fire]

18. I'd be comfortable with it either way...

...but I don't see right now that either one is willing to play second-banana.

[Vikingking66]

19. wait a moment

I like Clark a lot, but he doesn't have any domestic chops whatsoever.
He can talk down Bush just like the rest of the candidates, but does he have a domestic agenda - such as balancing the budget, universal health insurance, energy independence, or whatever? Shouldn't we give the top slot to someone who's had politicial experience rather than someone with just military experience?

[Racenut20]

20. Dr. Dean's Eleven Votes

That is about how many I suspect he would get south of the Mason-Dixon Line.

[billbuckhead]

21. Better Clark choices would be Landrieu, Richardson or even a black person

It's time for Democrats to practice what they preach. Wesley says he's for affirmative action and actions do speak louder than words. Dean's just another ivy league preppie. A progressive America needs to be broader than that.

[stickdog]

28. "Unnamed Democratic 'black person' outpolls Dean."

News at 11.

[w4rma]

36. Dean says he's for affirmative action.

40,000 Americans Have Signed the Stop Ashcroft Petition
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/001115.html

Dean decries civil rights abuses for Arabs and Muslims
Former Vermont Governor Howard Dean issued the following statement on the forthcoming Inspector General’s report documenting abuse of Arabs and Muslims detained under the Patriot Act:

“For the second time in recent weeks, the Justice Department Inspector General will be reporting serious abuses of the civil rights of Arabs and Muslims in the war on terror. These abuses are wrong and must stop immediately.

“I am appalled by allegations – which the Inspector General has deemed credible – that Department of Justice employees have, among other things, beaten Muslim and Arab detainees.

“This should not happen in America.

“The Inspector General’s report confirms my fear that we have unnecessarily compromised constitutional freedoms in the name of fighting terrorism. The ongoing abuses alienate the community whose cooperation we need most and diminish our moral credibility in the eyes of the world. The rule of law and due process must continue to be the hallmarks of our judicial system.

“I urge Congress to reconsider aspects of the Patriot Act and other anti-terror tactics that lead to such abuses.

“The government must protect Americans against terrorism while protecting basic civil liberties every step of the way.”
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000737.html

Let's Start Calling Racial Profiling What It Is
AUSTIN—Dean said today that he would take federal action, including withholding federal funding, against state and local law enforcement agencies that engage in racial profiling. As president, Dean would use the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to label racial profiling by law enforcement as a form of discrimination. “Let’s start calling racial profiling what it is—discrimination based upon race,” Dean said.

In comments today to the annual meetings of the National Council of La Raza here and the NAACP in Miami, Dean took issue with the recent memorandum circulated by Attorney General John Ashcroft on the subject of profiling and with the Bush administration’s position that this is a state and local issue over which the federal government has little control. “This is a civil rights issue, and that makes it a federal issue,” Dean said. “Racial discrimination is illegal in hiring, housing, and voting. It should be illegal as a law enforcement technique too.”

“Condemning racial profiling is not enough,” said Dean. “Racial profiling is a serious civil rights issue, and the administration should do more than circulate a memo saying ‘don’t do it’ to federal enforcement agencies he oversees, like the FBI and DEA.”

“As President, I will direct my Attorney General to use regulatory authority under existing anti-discrimination laws—the 1964 Civil Rights Act—to define racial profiling as discrimination, and to withhold federal funds from departments that violate those regulations.”

Governor Dean also made clear that if existing law does not provide sufficient authority, he would seek legislation providing the authority necessary to take stronger action to end profiling, saying “Racial profiling is wrong, and it deserves more than a memo, Mr. Ashcroft.”
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000681.html

[amazona]

38. I don't want to lose Landrieu as a senator

There have been lots of dirty tricks to try to steal that slot, and she is a proven winner.

I like Clark/Sharpton or the perhaps more socially acceptable Clark/Julian Bond if he is interested in the job. I still don't know enough about Mosely-Braun -- must get off the stick and inform myself better.

I agree that in the current atmosphere of "Anyone But" we have a great opportunity to get a minority candidate in the VP slot where he (or she) could be groomed for the top slot on down the line. While Clinton and Landrieu may seem the best "mainstream" choices, as I said, I feel we very much need Landrieu where she is, and probably the same is true of Clinton. Just my humble opinion.

[stickdog]

26. Ha ha.

I guess that's what the primaries are for.

[clar]

22. I'd be fine with Clark Dean

but I want to see how Clark does. I may be one of the few, but I don't see Clark's appeal, other than on paper. I thought his speech yesterday was a snoozer. I do think that the loss of the Dean activists would be a grievous blow to the dems. Not insurmountable, but a significant loss.

[Nashyra]

24. Either way it's a winner

I hope that these two are paired in one way oe another.

[blm]

27. The grassroots are antiBush

more than anything else. They were just looking for the candidate who appeared to dislike Bush and the media told thenm it was Howard Dean who fit that bill, completely ignoring the other candidates.

[stickdog]

31. Keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel better. (NT)

[clar]

49. Is this deliberate obtuseness?

Dean's support is largely for him. It may make you crazy, but the activists behind him, as can be seen from their actions, like him. And this ridiculous thing about the Press being in his corner- no candidate has gotten a free ride from the press. Dean sure the hell has not.

[TLM]

51. Again we see the Kerry mantra....

The only reason people are not supporting Kerry is they are stupid.


BLM thinks all Dean supporters have been tricked into supporting Dean because we're stupid and were so easily duped by the media telling us Dean was anti-Bush. We're too stupid to read the other candidates websites or listen to their speaches or look at their voting records. We are too ignorant to possibly have reasons for supporting Dean over the other candidates.

We're just morons doing what the media tells us.

“Vote For Kerry, Or You’re Stupid!”

[salin]

29. wow

more ordering the democratic process to follow one person's view. Forget democracy - forget the democratic selection process. BooYaa :eyes:

[amazona]

37. not the only logical answer but i think it's a good one NT

.

[paulk]

39. I could see Dean/Clark

but not Clark/Dean. If Clark wins the nomination he will need to balance his one big deficiency - no experience in gov't. He will need a Washington insider, someone from the Senate or House.

Also someone who can bring him regional votes. Does Dean pull much outside of Vermont? Graham, Edwards, Gephardt, even Kerry all make more sense as V.P.

IMO

[realFedUp]

40. Dean/Clark

sounds good to me. I think domestic problems will
overtake the rebuilding of Iraq. I'd rather have
the emphasis there and military second.
I'm still supporting Dean for Prez.

[joeybee12]

43. Dean/Clark, but not the other way around...

...Clark has the military/foreign affairs experience to back Dean up, but I can't see how Dean helps Clark as VP. It's not that Dean wouldn't accept it, but that a VP choice should round out the Pres' credentials--dont see it working that way.

[ronnykmarshall]

44. Had this conversation with my mom.

I've been talking about Clark for a long time with my mom and step-dad. They are both very hardcore liberal democrats (thank god they saw the light in 1994) and mom is leaning towards Dean. She watch Gen. Clark on TV last night and was VERY impressed.

We both agree that it's these two men are our best shot. Clark/Dean, Dean/Clark ..... we'll see how it plays out.

[tjdee]

46. NO WAY--both need a political insider to balance the ticket.

We can wish and hope all we want for whichever way to combine our 1st and 2nd choice, but that doesn't make it "the only logical answer".
At least you didn't try to shove Clark into a VP spot like so many on DU do.

For starters, both Dean and Clark need a Washington insider. That is, if you consider Dean an outsider (which I don't think he is). Frankly, if we are thinking logically, a better choice for both would be Graham or even Kerry. Or someone totally outside the candidate field.

[TLM]

52. I disagree... they will both need an insider...

but there is no need for the insider to be in the VP slot. The insiders can be in the cabinet.

[tjdee]

53. Well, that depends to what degree they hype themselves.

I see your point...but I'd say that the VP runs before the election *with* the nominee, hyping up the nom and playing up himself. That way, the voters get to see a fuller picture of what they're going to get. That's why Cheney chose himself, for intance.

Dean, for example, right now, still has an Achilles heel on foreign policy (obviously, he isn't the only candidate with this problem). If he can't get himself some major credibility on this issue (independent of Clark, who will help to a degree), he will *need* to have a VP who can balance that out for him.

Clark needs to come across as very, very mindful of domestic issues in order to pick whomever he'd like. Otherwise, he's going to have to compensate as well.