I extend my pro-Clark hand to the pro-Dean people

[CRYINGWOLFOWITZ]

I really worry about this anti-clark wave among dean supporters. I support Clark, although I think Dean would make a strong candidate as well. If Dean wins the nomination I will completely support him (although it doesn't matter, I live in texas lol). I hope you will give the same respect to Clark. Please support Dean if you think he is your guy, but don't bash Clark. I think either would make very strong candidates.

[gully]

1. ABB Baby!!!

[wryter2000]

2. Deanie here

I'm not going to bash anyone. I'm all for Clark if he gets the nomination, and I'm waiting eagerly to hear what he has to say.

Hey, don't give up on Texas!

[diplomats]

3. I concur completely

I like both of them a lot, and from what I've read Clark and Dean have the utmost respect for each other. Maybe we should follow their lead.

[Brian Sweat]

4. I will vote for Dean, if he gets the nomination

but I will not work for his campaign. I have no desire to associate with some of his supporters.

[KaraokeKarlton]

37. Give it another week and you'll understand why some Dean supporters

behave badly. See how Clark is getting attacked relentlessly right now? That's what Dean supporters have had to deal with from the supporters of other candidates. It seems to have made some very defensive and quick to assume there is bashing when valid questions have been asked. You'll see plenty of Clark supporters behaving the same way you don't like in some Dean supporters. You really shouldn't limit yourself that way because for argument sake, if you refuse to work for a candidate with a few rabid supporters, you won't be able to work for any candidate.

[Jennellist]

5. I hate to burst your bubble.....

but your boy Clark is nothing more than a Clinton stooge setting the stage for Hillary's anointment. Clark may well be in on it. Nothing against him. He probably realizes tagging along is his best shot. Look how close Gore got.

[Rose Siding]

7. I'd say you have a minority opinion there

I'm a Dean supporter who would really like to distance myself from both your conclusion and your attitude.

[Jennellist]

10. I actually hope I'm wrong and you're right.

But I doubt it. I've seen these people in action for 11 years now.

[RetroLounge]

28. I can only concurr with the following sentiment.

"I'm a Dean supporter who would really like to distance myself from both your conclusion and your attitude."

Your post is an embarrassment and exactly why DU GD has gone down to the level of discourse it has. Nothing but FR and Repug talking points disguised as thought.

I'm just happy that posts like this are NOT how the majority of Dean Supporters feel.

If Wes Clark get the Nomination, I am all for him. If Dean gets it, he can win without your help.

ABB...

[virtualobserver]

35. no actual Democrat would use the term "Clinton stooge"

would they?

[Jennellist]

41. I guess so.

I just did.

[Jennellist]

40. Answer me one question

How the hell can anyone construe support for Dean as a 'freeper' sentiment. A freeper would rather die than even pretend to embrace Howard Dean. So please stop with the shit, OK? I know a lot of Democrats who concur (single r) that Clinton has not been good for the Democratic Party. If you aren't one of them, fine. But stop the insulting shit. Furthermore, who are you to say, "Dean can win without my help"?

[CRYINGWOLFOWITZ]

8. "Clinton stooge?" I'm sorry? is this FR or DU?

In case you hadn't noticed, the dems hadn't been reelected to the WH in over 50 years before Clinton. They had only won the WH once before him in the previous 24 years. Clinton SAVED the democratic party. What is said about Clinton by some on DU borders on blasphemy. Clinton should be greatly respected, especially here, not seen as an enemy.

[Jennellist]

12. I don't see it that way.

I think it's Clinton's fault we lost in 2000 and 2002. I think we sold our soul to Faust by putting Clinton in there in the 90s.In exchange for two wins, we have lost everything since. Why? Face it. Clinton is still calling the shots for the DNC. And Clinton is looking out for Clinton.

[CWebster]

18. They are not there yet

But some of us hear you. Don't sweat it and don't give up.

;-)Welcome aboard

[Uzybone]

33. Because the Dems

were doing so well before Clinton took office. What was it ...12 years out of thw WH and the last guy was chased out with a broom. You people need to learn history....11 years is not long enough to consider yourself a guru.

[Clark Can WIN]

9. Your "boy"?

Wow, what an amazing response to an honest and kind post. Your post is full of nothing but baseless rumor and rancor.

Don't cry if someone calls dean your "boy", what comes around goes around baby.


I for one will not bash Dean, I don't think he's the best candidate, but I do think he's a damn fine one.

[Jennellist]

16. Forgive me..

for using the term 'boy'. I have nothing against Clark, except for what may be his complicit involvement in a Clinton power grab at the expense of a talented candidate, Howard Dean.

[KaraokeKarlton]

39. I tend to think he's more likely working to help Dean than Hillary

Realistically, it's so unlikely he can catch up and build the kind of camapign structure necessary to win. He and Dean are very friendly. They share many same views. Clark is going to be MOST damaging to Kerry, in my opinion. A couple of weeks ago I posted that I have seriously wondered if Clark weren't entering around this time to steal some of the fire from Kerry and the others and further split up their support and help Dean. Dean supporters are loyal and very, very few will join the Clark campaign. A lot of Kerry supporters view him as more electable only because of his military record. Clark steals that thunder. I think Clark is going to hang in there until Kerry's campaign falls entirely apart and that he will then team up with Dean as the VP and take the nation by storm and whoop Bush's mealy arse. This is just speculation, of course...but my hunches are usually pretty good.

[Jennellist]

42. That would suit me just fine.

I wish it were the case.

[KaraokeKarlton]

45. I think it is the case

The Clintons actually like Dean quite a bit. They did choose him to work with them when they wanted to make Universal Health Care a reality. Clinton also did some favors for Dean while he was governor and Clinton was president. Just because Clinton likes Clark it doesn't mean that Clinton isn't trying to help make a Dean/Clark ticket a reality. Clinton has defending Dean twice over the last few months that I've seen...including against that DLC memo. Clinton also said that no one is better on Health Care than Howard Dean in his speech at the Harkin Steak Fry. Let's not lynch Clark. He's going to be on the ticket with Dean.

[tjdee]

11. Well, I hope so!

I wonder if the Clark haters and the Clinton haters are the same people.

Clinton stopped Poppy and Dole, and that's quite enough for me, thanks.

[Jennellist]

20. Let me differentiate for you

First, nobody hates Clark.
Secondly, the "Clinton-haters" can be broken down into two camps:
1)The right wingers...They hate Clinton because he ate their lunch in the 90s..won two elections, escaped conviction, and kept high ratings despite their best efforts to bring him down. AND they're pissed because he gets credit for the great economy.

2)Democrats who feel like he has put his interests ahead of the party. Many, like me, feel that he is the one really in charge of the DNC, and we believe his association with us cost us 2002 Senatorial elections. We also believe his influence cost Gore the election in 2000. We do not believe he is out to find us the best candidate for 2004, only the one who can best set the table for Hillary. I think Howard Dean is the best candidate, and I feel he is being submarined.

[bushisanidiot]

30. Clinton-hating Democrats are Republicans

")The right wingers...They hate Clinton because he ate their lunch in the 90s..won two elections, escaped conviction, and kept high ratings despite their best efforts to bring him down. AND they're pissed because he gets credit for the great economy."

You're right, the repukes still think they should have gotten credit for the booming Clinton economy even though they were the ones that got us into catostrophical deficits in the 80's. Clinton cleaned up their mess and they were (and still are) jealous as hell. Bunch of lying cry babies..

Bill Clinton will go down in U.S. history as one of the top presidents ever. THAT is why the repukes hate him (and Hillary). Sheer jealousy.

[Jennellist]

43. The body of your post is correct...the title is only partly correct.

Plenty of Democrats dislike Clinton.

[ignatius]

17. Clark and Dean, Clark and Clinton, it all

sounds good to me as long as Bush,Cheney,Rummy, Wolfowitz ,Perle, negropointe, etc...aren't in it.

It is past time for a regime change in America!!!

[bushisanidiot]

31. Anyone But AWOL!!

I don't know much about Clark, but he's got to be better than the piece of sh*t squatting in President Gore's house.

[Qutzupalotl]

34. You're misinformed, Jennellist.

Hillary is not running. The rumors floating around the media are just that, rumors.

And Gore didn't come "close", he won.

[Jennellist]

44. So why would Bill

say what he said in Monterey CA about the scenario of her running?

[SeattleRob]

46. Sounds like a Repuke Troll

I've seen similar comments on other threads people... KNow your history... Ever hear of COINTELPRO??? It's how much of the Vietnam anti-war movement was broken up.

Stand United

[SeattleRob]

48. Exhibit A

Here's another thread that was trolled..... There's a pattern here. Divide and conquer. Dems have to stick together.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=367021#367119

I am a Dean supporter who would happily vote for Gen Clark.

[barbaraann]

6. The important thing to me is that SOMEONE go after the BFEE

after he or she is elected.

ABB isn't enough. We need SWWRB--someone who will RICO the Bushies.

[NNN0LHI]

13. You da man! n/t

[Speck Tater]

14. Clark is certainly improving fast

It took him years to decide if he was a Democrat or a Republican.
It took him months to decide if he was going to run.
It took him days to decide if he would appear at the debate or not.
At this rate by election day he be taking mere hours to state his position on an issue.

[barbaraann]

25. Nice summation of some GOP talking points.

Point #1 is simply wrong. It took him years to announce he's a Dem because the officer corps in the military is seriously GOP (I grew up in the military and I know)

Point #2 is probably correct. I would guess that any candidate who did not come from a family intent on establishing a dynasty would take at least that amount of time to decide to run for President.

Point #3 is probably correct. Taking several days to make a decision seems normal to me.

Point #4 is probably correct and seems reasonable to me.

What we have now in the Presidency, of course, is a puppet who never makes ANY of his own decisions in ANY amount of time with one exception--condeming people to death. He seems to get orgasmic over that decision.

[BJ]

15. I'm keeping an open mind on a potential presidential candidate

That being said, I am very uncomfortable in the DLC's "man-on-a-white-horse" candidate, Gen. Clark. So the man's pro-choice, for gay domestic unions, yaddy-yada, yaddy-yada. Does that make him a liberal? It's just common sense!

At this date Clark's campaign is trying to weasel out of next Thursday night's candidate debate on economic issues. If he steps up to the plate and explains his position on the economy, besides rolling back Bush's gratutious tax cuts for the rich, then maybe he can show that he truly is a liberal. I doubt, however, the General, should he be our next president, would do much, if any, to curb the Pentagon's appetite for money.

[jonnyblitz]

19. Some of the Clark supporters are bringing on the 'anti-Clark" wave

I am not supporting anybody in particular and I must say that SOME of the Clark supporters out do the Dean supporters in obnoxiousness many times over!!

[Nashyra]

22. Thanks for the positive thread

I will work for Clark first and then if it is Dean I will work for him with just as much enthusiasm. The extreme Clark and Dean supporters don't help their candidate at all and those who want to bash on this thread why don't you just ignore it and let those who wish to concentrate on ABB exchange ideas, there are plenty of other trash threads here at DU.

[Eloriel]

21. What do you mean by bashing?

Never mind, I'm going to start a thread on it.

Eloriel

[Max Kelly]

23. Texas Democrat.

also being a Texan, the only real "say" I have will be the primaries. I began this whole process as an Edwards supporter... then after listening to and reading about Dean, I started supporting him... now, I'm not so sure about Clark. He should've had his "ducks in a row" before announcing.
-Max
http://www.youvebeenleft.com

[Logansquare]

24. A Dean supporter right there with you

I'm avoiding these candidate bashing threads, (although some of you don't make it easy!) and getting my information from other sources.

[CMT]

26. I've seen wave of dissent re: Clark among more than Dean

supporters. I've seen Clark people bash Dean. The thing is to disagree without it becoming bashing. But honest disagreements are fine.

[opstachuck]

27. we're in feeding frenzy mode...

partially as an extention of the media we're being fed and partially because we have strong political convictions. clark came into this race just as it was turning into a dogfight, so i think he's getting what everyone else has been getting, maybe more, because they're all tired of their candidate getting picked on or ignored. i like dean more than i like clark and so i might try to argue points as to why i'm not supporting clark all the way but that doesn't mean i don't like him. part of the campaigning process is to compare and contrast and so negativity will naturally enter into that equation. what one person sees as being negativity the other will see as being logic if it fits into their political paradigm. the problem is when the negativity is reactionary and emotionally weighted - it doesn't help either candidate actually. the frustrating part though is when you get a reactionary post to a reactionary post and then it turns into an arms race of stupidity. anyway, clark's fine in my book, i won't bash him but if i don't agree with something he says or stands for i'll point it out if only because my political convictions demand that i recognize a point of contention with the other candidates. it's a competition to be in the big competition and hopefully whoever emerges out of this mess will be stronger for it.

[Nashyra]

29. Amen

[Room101]

32. I'm a Dean guy who speaks highly of Clark

I think a Dean/Clark ticket would be best.

[slappypan]

36. hear hear

I am leaning towards Clark at the moment but I would be proud to vote for Howard Dean if he wins the nomination.

[sandnsea]

38. Deanie's are bashing Clark??

Say it isn't so! Deanie's don't bash!

[HFishbine]

47. Deaner weighing in

Don't count me among the Clark bashers. Some hard questions occassionally? Sure. But no bashing. Your extended hand accepted.