Clark tied to Perle and Feith

[Shylock]

interesing if can be proven: scroll down


http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen09182003.html

[disgruntella]

1. yawn

:boring:

[CWebster]

18. no rebutal

[jonnyblitz]

42. nope..u will just be called an extremist...

if u dont shut the hell up and get in line.

[Bertrand]

43. In order to refute something

you need valid specifics to question. Unnamed sources and hyperbole by an enemy dont cut it, or at least shouldnt if you believe in rational debate.

[in_cog_ni_to]

38. Clark

flew BOTH planes into the towers, survived that and flew another plane into the pentagon, survived that and crashed another plane in Pa. :crazy:

[WilliamPitt]

2. Clark eats kittens

[Brian Sweat]

4. Only after roasting them on a spit.

[nannygoat]

5. Only after Frist has used them for scientific purposes... n/t

[AWD]

9. Clark does NOT eat kittens

He runs them over with his car. DEAN is the one who eats them.

[newsguyatl]

12. did you even READ the piece will?

no wait, you couldn't have because you posted 2 minutes after the original poster...


you should take a look at it... (and so many others)

[disgruntella]

16. i looked at several of the counterpunch articles

No, I didn't research them thoroughly, but come on - Counterpunch has an agenda against Clark. They're a non-credible source on that topic, IMHO. I realize that they post articles from other journalists, but I'll take those articles seriously when I see them somewhere other than Counterpunch.

[CWebster]

21. Pitt has a new crush

[WilliamPitt]

35. On you

cutie.

[Brian Sweat]

23. I didn't need to read it.

It's from counterpunch.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

30. counterpunch has been a great credible news source for a while

too bad they don't like Clark, it's a free country

[bicentennial_baby]

34. Deleted

....

[Eloriel]

32. Aw, don't rattle his protective little cocoon of denial, NGA

He's in no mood for the truth these days.

Eloriel

[Pepperbelly]

46. you certainly won't find any in that article.

If I were a leftie being spoon-fed that stuff, I would be offended that the writer viewed you with such contempt as to feel no need to actually cite any evidence for the embarassing conclusions offered. I would be even more embarrassed to parrot it.

But some of us clearly have ... unique standards for deciding what is true.

[CWebster]

19. no rebutal

[Bertrand]

44. In order to refute something

you need valid specifics to question. Unnamed sources and hyperbole by an enemy dont cut it, or at least shouldnt if you believe in rational debate.

[Pepperbelly]

47. rebut what?

The writer offered nothing to substantiate the wild charges being levelled.

You should be offended that the writer thinks so little of your critical faculties to offer this scat an a serious proposition.

[ShaneGR]

3. Clark killed Ghandi

I wonder if that's true, perhaps it can be proven.

[Pastiche423]

6. He said he likes them

and would like to work w/them again.

[bicentennial_baby]

7. oh nice

"From this vantage point, Clark was well aware of and likely supported the arming of the Bosnian government by accepting contributions from various deep-pocketed Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, Iran, Malaysia, Brunei, Jordan, and Egypt. Via something called the Bosnia Defense Fund, these countries deposited millions of dollars into U.S. coffers to buy weapons for the Bosnians and train them in their use through the use of private military contractors like Military Professional Resources, Inc. (MPRI). And when some of the weapons and cash for the Bosnians became "unaccounted for," where did some of the guns and cash wind up? In the hands of Al Qaeda and Iranian Pasdaran (Revolutionary Guard) units in Bosnia."




now Clark's connected to al qaeda too? Fucking hell, I was'nt going to say something like this, but some people really are doing Rove's work for him around here. :eyes:

[Brian Sweat]

25. Clark is really Osama Bin Laden.

[MoonAndSun]

8. if the link is counterpunch, then I do not pay it any attention......

does anyone know who counterpunch does like out of the 10 Dem candidates?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

10. Actually if Clark DOES have any substantial NEO CON TIES this

would concern me as much as the claims that Kerry did. Counterpoint picked UP Madsen's story...he didn't write it for them. THe main reason I regard Madsen as credible is that Bamford relied on him HEAVILY in his book "Body of Secrets" for decifering many FOIA docs that Bamford dug up.

[StephNW4Clark]

He's Not

a neocon. Long before anyone asked him to consider running for president, he went before Congress to give testimony on Iraq and said that while we could win the war, we need to give serious consideration to post-war planning. This is in direct conflict to any neo-con position.

Also, Clark supports the idea of an international court. Here's a quote: 'I know that the worst-case analysis of the International Criminal Court is that American soldiers could be subject to whimsical or politically motivated charges, but the US intends to operate under international law. We helped build international law, we need international law. And we've got to find a way to work with this court and bring it around and make whatever modifications need to be made to it. I was subjected to a war crimes investigation in my role as NATO commander. It didn't bother me a bit.
Source: CNN Late Edition interview with Wolf Blitzer Jul 7, 2002

And just before people get wound up about the Salon article where this is coming from, think about this. Haven't you ever been at work, and someone else got the promotion or made the big presentation to the boss and was a slick talker and got there because he was the boss' nephew, and someone else asks about him and you say, "Yeah I work with him. He's fine - a decent guy. I like working with him. Good kid." Given how drastically different Clark's personal philosophies and approach to the world is from the neocons, I do think this is the most likely scenario.

If Clark published a neocon paper, that's one thing. But in all fairness you don't become a 4 star general without learning to keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

Additional point: If any of the Dem candidates running now get elected, do you think the neocon philosophies in the Pentagon and DoD will just go away? The Pentagon and military aren't monolithic - there are tons of personal agendas and theories bouncing around. It's a point to consider.

[StephNW4Clark]

26. Congressional Testimony

Wanted to clarify: he didn't think war in Iraq was a good idea. He wasn't for it. But they asked him to comment on whether or not the US could win - not whether or not the US should go in.

Based on his assessments, he concluded by saying that while military victory should be certain, the peace would be too difficult and therefore mission should not be undertaken.

Will search for Congressional Testimony link.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. I'll look further at it later as well

I am not one for bashing candidates with guilt by association stuff but I DO consider Madsen to be a rather credible individual on some of these historical matters...I don't honestly know his track record...It would also be interesting to see if Foreign Policy in Focus has any comment forthcoming on Clark as again they are usually more accurate than not.

[Pepperbelly]

50. Teena ... I cannot believe you'd give that any credence.

I thought that you would demand something a little more substantive than a polemic with unnamed sources and not even the thinest attempt to actually prove the contention. To me, this Madsen is clearly contemptuous of his readers for trying to pass this off as legitimate analysis.

[newsguyatl]

11. thanks for the link

wayne madsen is great, a true fighter!


one of the best left writers out there.

[Evil_Dewers]

13. The Repugnantcans sure do fear

Clark and Dean.

Is there an automated way to ignore threads with Counterpunch links?

[bloom]

14. I, for one, like to hear things like this

"More interestingly is how General Clark's Bosnia strategy ultimately goes full circle. According to Washington K Street sources, the law firm that established the Bosnia Defense Fund was none other than Feith and Zell, the firm of current Pentagon official and leading neo-con Douglas Feith. Feith's operation at Feith and Zell was assisted by his one-time boss and current member of Rumsfeld's Defense Policy Board, Richard Perle. Both Feith and Perle advised the Bosnian delegation during the 1995 Dayton Peace talks. The chief U.S. military negotiator in Dayton was Wesley Clark.

...Let's not fall for the deception and tricks of the neo-cons again. If you are tired of Bush, Cheney, and the neo-cons and their phony wars, Clark is certainly not the answer. He has been, and remains part of, the great deception of the American people."


____________

I don't want more of the same as what we've got. And I think, if we don't pay attention, that is exactly what we'll get. Just next time with a prettier face - and perhaps one who is better at lying.

[Evil_Dewers]

22. Counterpunched in the scrotum

The "New Democrats" (neo-cons) are as much masters at the perception management (lying) game as their GOP counterparts (Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, and Donald Rumsfeld). Clark's presidential candidacy announcement in Little Rock is one warning sign. This city is a sort of "Mecca" for the neo-con Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) and its main nurturers, Al From and Bruce Reed. It was from Little Rock where the DLC propelled a little known governor named Bill Clinton into the White House. And although Clinton did not turn out exactly as conservative as the DLC hoped for, his support for globalization and selected use of U.S. military power abroad were neo-con keystone successes.

The DLC is not made up of neo-cons. Al Gore is a neo-con? Bill Clinton is a neo-con? Fuck you, counterpunchers. For shame. :(


Now enter "Arkansan" Wesley Clark. Like Hillary Clinton, Clark is a Chicago transplant to Little Rock. And he is about as power driven as the former First Lady. According to Pentagon insiders, when Clark was Commander of the US Southern Command in Panama from June 1996 to July 1997, he was fond of "ordering" Latin American military commanders and defense ministers to appear before him. Some of the Latin American officials, particularly those from Brazil, Argentina, and Chile, refused to be bullied by Clark, whose personality is said to be acerbic. From his pro-consul position in Panama, Clark supported with US military advisers and American mercenaries, continued warfare against anti-oligarchic movements in Colombia, Peru, Guatemala, Mexico, and Bolivia.

Conclusion: Clark is anti-hispanic (anti-Latin}. Who are the Pentagon insiders? Donald Rumsfeld and Colin Powell and Paulie Wolfowitz?

[ShaneGR]

15. Someone actually go to Counterpunch and look at the home page

Front page advertisement:
New Print Edition of CounterPunch Available Exclusively to Subscribers: Alexander Cockburn: My Life as an "Anti-Semite"; Jews and the Media: The Third Rail in American Political Life; The Decline of Anti-Semitism in the US; The Terror of the Occupation and the Ghastly, Futile Suicide Bombings; The Lessons of Hilliard, Moran and McKinney: Speak Out for Palestinian Justice & Lose Your Seat; Jeffrey St. Clair: The Saga of Mangequench: How a Manufacturer of Guided Missile Parts Outsourced to China; Indiana Workers Cry "Treason"! Remember, the CounterPunch website is supported exclusively by subscribers to our newsletter. Our worldwide web audience is soaring, with more than 60,000 visitors a day. This is inspiring news, but the work involved also compels us to remind you more urgently than ever to subscribe and/or make a (tax deductible) donation if you can afford it. If you find our site useful please: Subscribe Now!


Or Call Toll Free 1-800-840 3683 or write CounterPunch, PO BOX 228, Petrolia, CA 95558

And there's this little puppy:







I'm surprised they took the time to write anything about Clark.

[bicentennial_baby]

31. Oh sick!

I'm very supportive of the Palestinian cause, but that just ain't right... :puke:

[MariMayans]

37. read the book..

He is not an anti-semite, it's a collection of essays largely written by Jews about using accusations of anti-semitism as a libel campaign to discredit people who disagree with them. Just like what was done in the preceeding post.

[bloom]

33. This is what that book is about....

They are just saying that they are called Anti-Semitic because they are not Anti-Palestinian.


"So powerful is the Israel lobby that it was even able to bury a US congressional investigation into the deliberate attack on the USS Liberty by the Israeli Air Force, a attack that left 34 US sailors dead and 172 wounded. Jeffrey St Clair recalls this astounding demonstration of the clout of the Israel lobby in official Washington.

The bottom line is Israel?s denial of Palestinians? right to a nation, living within secure borders, just like Israeli Jews. Many of the contributors to this book, like the veteran peace activist and journalist, Yuri Avneri, have born witness to the savagery of that denial. Just how awful the occupation is, and how cruel the onslaughts on the Intifada are eloquently described by a Palestinian, Edward Said, and an Israeli Jew, Yigal Bronner. Both, please note, still nourish a vision of a future in which Israeli Jews and Palestinians live peaceful and tolerant lives, side by side.

This first book in the new CounterPunch series, is a timely anthology on the compulsion of silence and complicity in crimes against a betrayed people."

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1902593774/ref=ase_counterpunchmaga/002-2025300-0405647?v=glance&s=books#product-details

[Tinoire]

36. You didn't read the article did you

just bolded it for sensationalism hoping to get people all excited.

Not surprised at all that you would do such a thing.

You just might be surprised what the article is about...

[PROGRESSIVE1]

17. I want more evidence then this one article!!!

:eyes:

[Pepperbelly]

48. there was not a shred ...

of evidence offered in the juvenile screed proffered for serious discussion.

[Unknown Known]

20. Why does Dean like Clark?

If Clark is so EVIL? Shouldn't we suspect Dean as well?

[davidinalameda]

24. this guy also loves the Clintons

love how anyone who doesn't support your position is automatically a neo-con

is it time for the tin foil hats yet?

[NNN0LHI]

28. I think Clark voted for Lincoln too n/t

[oasis]

29. Counterpunch paints Clark as a Napoleon who led a Hitler Luftwaffe

bombing campaign in Kosovo. A Clark/Stalin comparison to follow in the next edition.

[IranianDemocrat]

39. Clark pokes holes in Condoms and is the new Hitler!

.

[slappypan]

40. Counterpunch

is the new Hitchens.

[grasswire]

41. Clark is a Jew!

How could he be an anti-semite?? His mother was a Jew.

Gad. I'm getting nauseous.

I'm this close to leaving DU.

[Pepperbelly]

45. I cannot believe that any DUer take this seriously.

Did any of you actually READ this shit?

The writer, in an unsourced polemic, didn't even ATTEMPT to prove his thesis. He just claims it. And some of you rush to gobble it up. What in the hell happened to your critical thinking skills? Are you just so ready to believe any dirt that some asshole flings that you do not even consider what is said and the evidence cited? Do you even care if there is any evidence of it?

At my angriest, I would never consider smearing someone in the fashion this writer used. It is beneath contempt and is filled with propaganda trick after propaganda trick and you people act as though it is the legitimate coin of the relm.

If this crap sounds reasonable to any of you, you should consider upping the dosage on your medication.

[Renew Deal]

49. Clark is the next Napoleon?

This is getting out of hand. :argh:

http://democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=369803

[bloom]

51. kick for pitt